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‘I trusted you!’ Trump voters seethe after realizing they’re getting screwed by the GOP’s tax plan

Media_Truth said:
I was responding to this statement - "However, when we had high tax rates our deductions were far more liberal and numerous."

Historically, raising the top tier of taxation also raises the effective tax rate (an individual's overall tax liability). Regarding revenues, that's another matter on the tax receiving end, and it depends on a lot of other external factors.

Explained here --->
https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/04/08/effective-tax-rate-vs-marginal-tax-bracket-what-yo.aspx
Click to expand...

Meaningless economic semantics. All that matters is collected revenues. There's good reasons smart investors ignore Motley Fool. No one ever paid the high tax rates of the mid 20th century.

During a recent hospital stay as I walked the hallways to aid my recovery, I noticed a series of prints by Roy Lichtenstein decorating the walls, and a plaque thanking the donor. I own two of those prints, purchased almost 50 years ago for $200 each directly from Roy when he was teaching at a state college in upstate NY. My insurer values them at greater $250k each. I have no doubt the donor used them for a charatible write off on his taxes, and I know the donor is worth 10's of millions. I also know the donor purchased those prints when I bought mine. No doubt he took a charitable deduction at the maximum value, tho on the open market they would be unlikely to return more than $75-100k each, and he avoided any capital gains tax. You were saying....?
 
Nap said:
You are comparing manual labor with skilled labor. Anyone can wash dishes thus the value of the labor they perform is worth less. Not everyone can successfully manage a hedge fund which is why they get paid the way they do.

I agree with you about wage stagnation after being taken off the gold standard in the 70s. Having a fiat currency that the country can manipulate is a bad idea as the government has a habit of ruining everything it gets involved with (See: Healthcare, Housing, Education, etc)
Click to expand...

Blaming going off the gold standard for wage stagnation is nonsense. All other modern nations use fiat currency, yet they don't have the stagnation of income inequality of the U.S. The difference is redistribution.

screen_shot_2013-11-027.jpg


Moreover, the number of people that can run a hedge fund isn't rare and doesn't explain why one needs to be rewarded with nine digit salaries while receiving a special low tax rate.
 
Phys251 said:
Too bad. If you don't support reasonable tax rates on the ultrarich then you are saying that Nixon, Ford, and especially Eisenhower were too liberal.
Click to expand...

LOL, reasonable? defined by who? Is it reasonable that approximately 50% of all income earners pay ZERO in Federal Income Taxes? Why isn't that unreasonable?
 
pamak said:
Unions do not control half of the seats in the corporate board of directors.
Such seats are controlled by the stockholders. And since people with more stocks can cast more votes, it means that a very small minority of stockholders (thanks to the big inequality in the US) has actually control of the majority of the stocks and controls the board of directors! There is a reason why there is a disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street...

And let's not talk about the "right to work" states and the anti-union laws....
Click to expand...

Do you have any problem with what union leadership makes in salaries? Unions have outlived their usefulness IMO. Let's talk about citizens of the states deciding on right to work states not some justice or someone from some other state
 
pamak said:
Florida?

See Florida

https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...tates-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

View attachment 67249968

Florida receives more than 4 dollars for each dollar of federal taxes

A big part of this picture is that Florida has an older population and many retirees.
Still, retirees do not have to pay taxes to educate their kids. They do not have to pay for public transportation in big urban centers to go to work. They do not have to go to college to remain competitive in an economy that creates greater demand for high-skilled workers. When these retires went to colleges tuitions were more affordable, and those who opted out of higher education at that time did it when the economy gave more opportunities to high school graduates. The same retirees lived their life on debt at the state and federal level which they pass now to the new generations. Not to mention that during their life as active workers the income taxes were higher.

So, their argument that now states with younger and a thriving acting population a their lifestyle of "low taxation" is not convincing.
Click to expand...

This is where you failed. florida doesn't have an income tax which is the response i was actually referring too.
also if you don't know FLorida also has one of the oldest population demographics out there. Many
people come to FLorida to retire because of the cost of living, taxes, and the weather is decent unless it is summer time.

so please just spare us your meme when you actually look at facts.

Retiree's pay sales tax and property taxes which make up the bulk of taxes collected in this state.

we know your argument isn't convincing.
 
rocket88 said:
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/tr...-gops-tax-plan/?utm_source=push_notifications

Remember how we said this wasn't good for middle class taxpayers. All the conservatives here were like "No, your taxes went down. Hail Trump!"

Hmmm.....maybe you guys were wrong.
Click to expand...

Hmm.....Maybe people on twitter are dumb. Every single tax bracket went down. The standard deduction doubled. There is almost no one who should be paying more taxes on the same amount of income as before. Only a few fringe cases. Why would we treat a few people on twitter like they are representative of the entire middle class?
 
pamak said:
Actually, as I said in another thread, when Democrats come to power they should create a tax change in which taxpayers can deduct twice the amount they get from SALT. So, if your overall SALT taxes are 20,000 you can deduct 40,000. Then if republicans in low tax states complain, we can tell them that they can increase their state tax and get similar benefits!
I am sarcastic, of course, but in essence, it is what you said, The tax changes are like a big F*** U to middle-class residents of specific states. They were not designed to target the wealthiest in every state.
Click to expand...

Or just take the standard deduction. That was one of the point of the law. To simplify taxes. The average itemized deduction for the middle class is far less than the $24,000 standard deduction for married couples. SALT is evern still theres, its just capped at $10,000.
 
MTAtech said:
Blaming going off the gold standard for wage stagnation is nonsense. All other modern nations use fiat currency, yet they don't have the stagnation of income inequality of the U.S. The difference is redistribution.

Moreover, the number of people that can run a hedge fund isn't rare and doesn't explain why one needs to be rewarded with nine digit salaries while receiving a special low tax rate.
Click to expand...

Income inequality is meaningless when you can add to the money supply on demand.
which is the job of the federal reserve.

it doesn't matter how much redistribution you have you will have just more inequality.
why? soak the rich taxes don't work and have proven not to work. They also have proven
to drive the rich to other places and they take their money with them.



actually it is rare the number of people that can run a hedge fund. there is a difference in running a hedge fund and being successful doing it.
getting licensed to run a hedge fund is no easy task.

People are rewarded based on their performance on the fund. the people that run them all have standard contracts.

they don't get special low tax rates.

also it depends on when and where they sale their investments.

anything sold < 1 year is considered normal income.
anything sold > 1 is considered capital gains.

Hedge fund managers earn 2% on the amount of their fund.
they then can get a 20% profit fee if the fund earns more than 8% or so.

The 2% is considered income
while the 20% profit is considered carried interest which is capital gains.

as it is a risk/reward measure.
 
Winston said:
Conservatives.. come on! We told ya!
Click to expand...

I really don't know what all ya'll are talking about. I make about 33,000 a year, and I got more money back than I ever did under obama. You all are just upset over the SALT tax, which is supposed to an incentive to get rid of state income taxes, like my state did, instead of blaming trump.

He was very good for us.

As your state why they keep taking your taxes. Maybe then, you won't have to move here to escape them.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I really don't know what all ya'll are talking about. I make about 33,000 a year, and I got more money back than I ever did under obama. You all are just upset over the SALT tax, which is supposed to an incentive to get rid of state income taxes, like my state did, instead of blaming trump.

He was very good for us.

As your state why they keep taking your taxes. Maybe then, you won't have to move here to escape them.
Click to expand...

Well it's not me. It's these Trump supporters:

Multiple supporters of President Donald Trump over the past couple of weeks have taken to Twitter to air their grievances about the president’s signature tax cut plan.

Even though the 2017 GOP tax cut is leading to spiking federal deficits thanks to its generous benefits to corporations, many middle-class Americans are winding up having to pay more because the bill eliminated multiple deductions used by middle-class families to lower their annual tax payments.

Among other things, the tax bill capped deductions for taxes paid to state and local governments, while massively increasing the amount of money you must donate to qualify for a charitable giving deduction.

Several Trump voters who have done their taxes are not happy about this and they’re letting both the president and the Republican Party hear it — check out some of their tweets below.


Dennis Jordan
@DennisMJordan
Replying to @GOPChairwoman @GOP
I am a Republican voter. I just did our taxes.

The @GOP tax bill cost my family THOUSANDS of dollars this year on our return due to changes, thereby hitting us with the LARGEST tax increase of our lives.

We are middle-class homeowners, and you raised our taxes.

Infuriating!

3,784
5:57 AM - Feb 5, 2019
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Iamnewatthis
@sandynewtothis
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
I have to pay $2000 MORE in taxes this year! What happened?? I voted for you and thought you were fixing this, not making it worse!? I thought I would get money back this year!?

3,109
11:56 AM - Feb 1, 2019
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Nycgirl
@nlnp99
Replying to @WhiteHouse @POTUS
Voted for you . Family of
2 hard working N.Y. cops. Did taxes for years we would pay more and get a refund at the end of the year to help pay debt . First time in 30 years We had to pay more in Federal
Taxes. I’m disgusted

274
6:13 PM - Feb 4, 2019
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507 people are talking about this

Joel Serbin
@JoelSerbin
@POTUS thank you for screwing the middle class with your tax reform. I have never in my life, I’m 49 years old, had to pay into the IRS until this year. We have a combined income of 150,000. The middle class voted for you. I will not make the same mistake twice.

300
9:15 PM - Feb 3, 2019
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466 people are talking about this

Jay Wright
@nochcknstrps12r
@RepDonBacon I just finished my taxes and we're paying an extra 4k this year since exemptions are gone. With a High D HC plan, this has not been a good year. I voted for you twice now. What's the plan?

106
6:02 AM - Feb 3, 2019
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Thomas DeLucca
@TDeLucca7728
@realDonaldTrump I voted for you, and believe in the things you are doing, but you screwed us middle class with taxes. I can’t itemize or anything. How about a flat tax and get rid of earned income credit. Some don’t earn income but get more back in taxes for having baby’s.

71
5:55 PM - Feb 2, 2019
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424 people are talking about this

Shelby Kuh
@ShelbyKuh
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
I voted for you the first time but after you screwed me on my get tax break I won’t vote for you again especially after I started on my 2018 return it’s a joke the taxes you are keeping from a working person good luck in 2020

169
5:23 AM - Feb 2, 2019
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233 people are talking about this

Joshua Curtis
@dcjchris
Replying to @juliobailon @realDerekUtley
I voted for @realdonaldtrump, but that unfortunately that means I have to pay higher taxes.

44
10:03 PM - Jan 25, 2019
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130 people are talking about this

A9N7G3
@973angie
Worse tax return I had in a decade! I admit I voted for @realDonaldTrump but he has officially lost my vote for 2020.

305
11:06 AM - Jan 23, 2019
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493 people are talking about this

Speziale-Matheny
@Speciale3886
Replying to @realDonaldTrump
Wait til you file your taxes. Middle class just lost half their return. Lowest refund I have ever had and I am 50yrs old. No wall and now this tax reform sucks too!! Starting to doubt Trump. I voted for him and trusted him too.

181
12:53 PM - Jan 27, 2019
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Click to expand...
 
Winston said:
Well it's not me. It's these Trump supporters:
Click to expand...

Yea. "Trump supporters" I've already looked at some of their tweets. Talk about bottom of the barrel. Lets see, one of them hasn't posted in a year, another actually DELETED his tweet, and only has 19 followers, and another only has 1 tweet, no profile picture, and has all the makings of being fake. Actually, 2 of them now look entirely fake.

And this is just from the 4 I randomly looked up on twitter.

This is all the media can find? Why don't they talk to me? am I not as reliable as any of these "trump supporters"?
 
rocket88 said:
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/tr...-gops-tax-plan/?utm_source=push_notifications

Remember how we said this wasn't good for middle class taxpayers. All the conservatives here were like "No, your taxes went down. Hail Trump!"

Hmmm.....maybe you guys were wrong.
Click to expand...

The Democrats have nothing but gossip and soap opera reinforced by fake news. Good luck with the Green World money pit!

After the tax breaks went into affect last year, the tax savings were immediately added to one's take home pay. It was not designed to be withheld until tax time this year, but was made available right away. Trump wanted this money given to the people right away, since this is how you stimulate the economy, last year, to make a better today.

The Obama era shake down tax, mandate, is gone, so many young people will see a tax return that is not stolen by Government, as it was last year. This is a tax break for the healthy; natural selection. Middle class people can now begin to shop around for health plans, that are more tailored to their needs, thereby shopping for their own tax break. There is no more mandate to pay the Obama era over priced and over supplied health obligation tax. Last year men have to pay for abortions as part of the Obama heath tax obligation, even though males had no right or say about anything abortion. This hidden Obama tax is gone, for males; another tax cut.

Consider how much health care costed per month, under the ObamaCare mandate. People can now shop around and write their own tax break, without Congress playing games. This is the big tax obligation break for the middle class, who got screwed by Obama and the Democrats.
 
Last edited:
ludin said:
Income inequality is meaningless when you can add to the money supply on demand.
which is the job of the federal reserve.

it doesn't matter how much redistribution you have you will have just more inequality.
why? soak the rich taxes don't work and have proven not to work. They also have proven
to drive the rich to other places and they take their money with them.



actually it is rare the number of people that can run a hedge fund. there is a difference in running a hedge fund and being successful doing it.
getting licensed to run a hedge fund is no easy task.

People are rewarded based on their performance on the fund. the people that run them all have standard contracts.

they don't get special low tax rates.

also it depends on when and where they sale their investments.

anything sold < 1 year is considered normal income.
anything sold > 1 is considered capital gains.

Hedge fund managers earn 2% on the amount of their fund.
they then can get a 20% profit fee if the fund earns more than 8% or so.

The 2% is considered income
while the 20% profit is considered carried interest which is capital gains.

as it is a risk/reward measure.
Click to expand...

What you wrote above is false as well as nonsense. This is why:

1] The money supply has nothing to do with inequality. Inequality is driven by the distribution of income and money, not the total supply.

2] Redistribution has an enormous effect on income inequality, as does taxes on high income. From the period 1932-1980, top marginal tax rates were 70% at a minimum and it funded programs that redistributed to lower incomes. As a result, income inequality dropped dramatically and the middle class grew.

3] While you asserted "soak the rich doesn't work," it did work.

4] There is no evidence at all to suggest that the rich move out of the country when taxes are high nor is there any evidence that high taxes have any negative economic effects.

5] It's mythology to assume that hedgefund managers are compensated by performance. Just 10 years ago, when the markets were collapsing, these fund managers arranged "performance bonuses" just as their companies were losing money. They are able to get high pay simply because they rig the game.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Yea. "Trump supporters" I've already looked at some of their tweets. Talk about bottom of the barrel. Lets see, one of them hasn't posted in a year, another actually DELETED his tweet, and only has 19 followers, and another only has 1 tweet, no profile picture, and has all the makings of being fake. Actually, 2 of them now look entirely fake.

And this is just from the 4 I randomly looked up on twitter.

This is all the media can find? Why don't they talk to me? am I not as reliable as any of these "trump supporters"?
Click to expand...

It's always a conspiracy against the right with you guys :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Winston said:
It's always a conspiracy against the right with you guys :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


That's what keeps the Republican base in line. Victimhood. According to them there's always a war against white men, Christianity, conservatives, and of course Trump and the Deep state. That's how the Republican Party keeps their base in line, fear and victimhood..
 
ludin said:
Income inequality is meaningless when you can add to the money supply on demand.
which is the job of the federal reserve.

it doesn't matter how much redistribution you have you will have just more inequality.
why? soak the rich taxes don't work and have proven not to work. They also have proven
to drive the rich to other places and they take their money with them.



actually it is rare the number of people that can run a hedge fund. there is a difference in running a hedge fund and being successful doing it.
getting licensed to run a hedge fund is no easy task.

People are rewarded based on their performance on the fund. the people that run them all have standard contracts.

they don't get special low tax rates.

also it depends on when and where they sale their investments.

anything sold < 1 year is considered normal income.
anything sold > 1 is considered capital gains.

Hedge fund managers earn 2% on the amount of their fund.
they then can get a 20% profit fee if the fund earns more than 8% or so.

The 2% is considered income
while the 20% profit is considered carried interest which is capital gains.

as it is a risk/reward measure.
Click to expand...

the hedge fund manager risked other peoples' money
would you please explain that aspect of your risk/reward measure
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
That's what keeps the Republican base in line. Victimhood. According to them there's always a war against white men, Christianity, conservatives, and of course Trump and the Deep state. That's how the Republican Party keeps their base in line, fear and victimhood..
Click to expand...

Anyone who watches Fox News shows objectively can see that.
 
wellwisher said:
The Democrats have nothing but gossip and soap opera reinforced by fake news. Good luck with the Green World money pit!

After the tax breaks went into affect last year, the tax savings were immediately added to one's take home pay. It was not designed to be withheld until tax time this year, but was made available right away. Trump wanted this money given to the people right away, since this is how you stimulate the economy, last year, to make a better today.

The Obama era shake down tax, mandate, is gone, so many young people will see a tax return that is not stolen by Government, as it was last year. This is a tax break for the healthy; natural selection. Middle class people can now begin to shop around for health plans, that are more tailored to their needs, thereby shopping for their own tax break. There is no more mandate to pay the Obama era over priced and over supplied health obligation tax. Last year men have to pay for abortions as part of the Obama heath tax obligation, even though males had no right or say about anything abortion. This hidden Obama tax is gone, for males; another tax cut.

Consider how much health care costed per month, under the ObamaCare mandate. People can now shop around and write their own tax break, without Congress playing games. This is the big tax obligation break for the middle class, who got screwed by Obama and the Democrats.
Click to expand...

Nice try. Can't defend Trump without saying "Obama." Most middle class people get their health insurance from their employer. Premiums still went up.

Yeah, less taxes were taken from people's paychecks, but now they're ending up paying those taxes anyway. So that's not really a cut, it's just that the pain is slightly delayed.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Yea. "Trump supporters" I've already looked at some of their tweets. Talk about bottom of the barrel. Lets see, one of them hasn't posted in a year, another actually DELETED his tweet, and only has 19 followers, and another only has 1 tweet, no profile picture, and has all the makings of being fake. Actually, 2 of them now look entirely fake.

And this is just from the 4 I randomly looked up on twitter.

This is all the media can find? Why don't they talk to me? am I not as reliable as any of these "trump supporters"?
Click to expand...

Okay, tell us your story.

Personally I consider anything on twitter, instagram or FB suspicious.
 
justabubba said:
the hedge fund manager risked other peoples' money
would you please explain that aspect of your risk/reward measure
Click to expand...

So you don't know what fiduciary duty is then? Well it basically means this.
if you give or someone gives you money to invest then you have an obligation to that person
to manage their money in a responsible and ethical manner.

While investor take on an inherent risk when any kind of investment the hedge fund manger must also
maintain that he is acting in the best interest of his investors and not himself.

If requested he must produce at any time how the funds are doing and if called to explain any losses the fund may take.
if the investors feel that he is mismanaging the funds then he is legally libel. the investors can sue.
 
ludin said:
So you don't know what fiduciary duty is then? Well it basically means this.
if you give or someone gives you money to invest then you have an obligation to that person
to manage their money in a responsible and ethical manner.

While investor take on an inherent risk when any kind of investment the hedge fund manger must also
maintain that he is acting in the best interest of his investors and not himself.

If requested he must produce at any time how the funds are doing and if called to explain any losses the fund may take.
if the investors feel that he is mismanaging the funds then he is legally libel. the investors can sue.
Click to expand...

you failed to address how the fund manager's investment of other peoples' monies causes it to be found "a risk/reward measure."
 
OldFatGuy said:
Meaningless economic semantics. All that matters is collected revenues. There's good reasons smart investors ignore Motley Fool. No one ever paid the high tax rates of the mid 20th century.

During a recent hospital stay as I walked the hallways to aid my recovery, I noticed a series of prints by Roy Lichtenstein decorating the walls, and a plaque thanking the donor. I own two of those prints, purchased almost 50 years ago for $200 each directly from Roy when he was teaching at a state college in upstate NY. My insurer values them at greater $250k each. I have no doubt the donor used them for a charatible write off on his taxes, and I know the donor is worth 10's of millions. I also know the donor purchased those prints when I bought mine. No doubt he took a charitable deduction at the maximum value, tho on the open market they would be unlikely to return more than $75-100k each, and he avoided any capital gains tax. You were saying....?
Click to expand...

Ignore it if you like. The effective tax rate does go up, when the top tier is raised. I challenge you to prove this wrong. Clinton/Gore used this very effectively when they raised the top tier to balance the budget.
 
justabubba said:
you failed to address how the fund manager's investment of other peoples' monies causes it to be found "a risk/reward measure."
Click to expand...

It is risk/reward.

If not manged properly then people will pull the money out of the fund. if it was so mismanaged to the point that it breaks the fiduciary codes then the investors can sue for their investments back.
the hedge fund manager is then on the hook for the bill. don't believe me see Madoff.

that is the risk.
the reward is that if you are successful then you are awarded your profit pay based on your contract with the investors.

usually people do not simply get to be hedge fund managers unless they have a proven track record of investing and a detailed
list of gains and losses they can show people over several years.
 
ludin said:
It is risk/reward.

If not manged properly then people will pull the money out of the fund. if it was so mismanaged to the point that it breaks the fiduciary codes then the investors can sue for their investments back.
the hedge fund manager is then on the hook for the bill. don't believe me see Madoff.

that is the risk.
the reward is that if you are successful then you are awarded your profit pay based on your contract with the investors.

usually people do not simply get to be hedge fund managers unless they have a proven track record of investing and a detailed
list of gains and losses they can show people over several years.
Click to expand...

it is other peoples' money at risk
the money manager is without financial risk, but is eligible for reward
 
Media_Truth said:
Ignore it if you like. The effective tax rate does go up, when the top tier is raised. I challenge you to prove this wrong. Clinton/Gore used this very effectively when they raised the top tier to balance the budget.
Click to expand...

*sigh* this is called not knowing what you are talking about.

The effective rate only goes up if the deductions allowed goes down.
when it came to clinton and gore they raised taxes and the rates went up yes but
reagan had already cut most of the deduction and closed most of the loopholes from
the 1984 tax bill.

that is why all this bull**** about OMG the 90% tax rate the 90% tax rate.

no one paid it. the effective tax rate was only about 50%. same during the 70's
when it was about 70%. the effective tax rate was about 45% with all the deductions they were allowed.

Reagan nixed most of the deductions and Trumps bill clamped down on them further.
 
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