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Thread: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing MFA

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    Except that's not the case, (I mean, asking someone if they're in support of MFA without any qualifiers is not 'lying') and you haven't really proven anything. We don't for example have poll results that demonstrate support levels when both arguments for and against are provided to the same taker (just one or the other).

    I further just provided a poll where baseline support was 54% after assuming tax increases, nevermind the abnormally low baseline support of the Kaiser poll vs every other poll currently out there.
    I provided a poll that said you were wrong and when you tell people the truth it drops to 30% or so.
    why are you so against telling people the truth?

    ol yea because you can't pass your fantasy healthcare without lying to people.

    ol you won't have to spend a dime. just ignore that 30-40% increase in your payroll tax.
    ol yea by the way medicare doesn't cover everything so you need a suppliment insurance plan to cover the stuff that medicare doesn't.
    those plans will cost you an extra 200-300 a month.

    Your doctor that you have been with for the past 20 years? ol yea he doesn't accept it because well he isn't going to work for 40% less.
    the hospital might take it.

    get out of your pie in the sky view and you find people don't want to be worse off.

    ol yea if you can see your doctor he will see you next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tions-january/
    cheers for medicare for all.
    Last edited by ludin; 02-07-19 at 09:12 AM.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I provided a poll that said you were wrong and when you tell people the truth it drops to 30% or so.
    why are you so against telling people the truth?

    ol yea because you can't pass your fantasy healthcare without lying to people.
    You provided a poll that, after establishing whether the taker supports or opposes MFA, then presents either an argument for or against it.

    It does not gauge support after exposure to both arguments which would be the best way of measuring true support; assuming of course you can control for how each argument is presented. Moreover, the Kaiser baseline support, before presentation of arguments for or against, is just above 50% contrasting starkly with the ~70% levels featured by just about every other contemporary poll on the matter within the past year; i.e. it is an outlier. There is a reason any serious political analyst leans on aggregate polls rather than individual polling. If you were to average baseline support, then apply the modifiers featured here, that both add and subtract support, you would see that the majority supports MFA.

    In your fantasy world however, apparently only arguments that stand against MFA count, and arguments for it are 'lies', so I suppose you would simply discard any such analysis off-hand.

    ol you won't have to spend a dime. just ignore that 30-40% increase in your payroll tax.
    ol yea by the way medicare doesn't cover everything so you need a suppliment insurance plan to cover the stuff that medicare doesn't.
    those plans will cost you an extra 200-300 a month.
    Actually, every version of MFA I'm aware of is comprehensive to the point that no supplemental coverage is required. Again, in Canada as an example, supplemental covers only niche things like glasses, dental, cosmetic surgery and certain prescriptions. Aside from facelifts and the like (obviously) current MFA proposals address these gaps as well. Thus, private supplemental health insurance still exists in Canada, but it is A: not necessary, and B: the coverage is marginal. In the case of MFA, the market for this would be even smaller per capita, and said coverage even less compelling due to the superiority of MFA coverage vs Canadian SP.

    Moreover there are many ways to raise taxes for MFA; not all of the burden has to fall upon payroll, nor have I heard of any plan that purports to distribute tax burden in this way. That said, again, there is polling that explicitly features majority support, even assuming tax increases; since you apparently missed it: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/polit...xes/index.html

    Your doctor that you have been with for the past 20 years? ol yea he doesn't accept it because well he isn't going to work for 40% less.
    the hospital might take it.
    Again, MFA purports to dramatically lower the cost of all inputs to the healthcare system, which includes education/training and the cost of supplies for private practices; two major financial pressures which demand high doctor salaries, thus helping to offset any salary haircut (which is not going to be nearly as high as 40%).

    get out of your pie in the sky view and you find people don't want to be worse off.

    ol yea if you can see your doctor he will see you next year.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tions-january/
    cheers for medicare for all.
    You'll have to provide a better example of the failings of SP than a surge during flu season in the midst of one of the worst austerity programmes that has ever faced the NHS per a Conservative party that wants to systemically dismantle and privatize it. As mentioned, you'll want to provide evidence of systemic failings relative to US healthcare.

    But sure, if you want to talk about 'being worse off', allow me to counterpoint:

    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...oecd-countries

    https://www.iflscience.com/health-an...hcare-systems/

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...994-2/fulltext

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub...ects-flaws-and

    Wow, that sure is worth paying 2.5x as much as the rest of the OECD per capita; really getting our bang for the buck there; these also show that countries with SP/UHC systems, including the UK typically have better doctor appointment wait times, while the US has the highest rate of deaths amenable to health care, etc, and consistently features one of the lowest performing health care systems among wealthy countries.
    Last edited by Surrealistik; 02-07-19 at 03:35 PM.
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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    I anticipated and expected nothing less from a career donor courtesan like Pelosi who spends more time on her knees courting monied interests (and perversely insisting that this qualifies her to lead the House) than legislating and getting the business of the country done.
    Hard to figure out why Bernie Bros are widely regarded as gross and sexist.

    Anyway, looks like someone got hold of a deck that:

    1. Asserts Dem commitment to universal coverage (that's good!)
    2. Envisions advancing last session's 5155 and related legislation to expand and improve coverage, not to mention mapping out critical state-level steps to protect Medicaid and the ACA (that's good!)
    3. Contemplates fixing traditional Medicare's benefit design (that's good!)
    4. Identifies several key policy issues that have pretty wide support to tackle, from prescription drug pricing to surprise medical billing (that's good!)
    5. Acknowledges that single-payer (1) has costs associated with it, (2) creates winners and losers, engendering organized stakeholder opposition, and (3) poses significant implementation challenges (all true!)


    Scandal of the century.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I will start Medicare in about a week, which will cost me about $1,600/year. What I have now is no insurance and pay $350 to $400/year cash for my medical care at Austin Regional Clinic in Kyle, TX.
    That's because you're probably still healthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Exactly who do you think you are, Generalissimo? Enough of your holier than thou. I get my preaching in church. Maybe they'll name a cocktail after you and you'll be famous.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    That's because you're probably still healthy.
    Not in too bad of shape for age 64. After 2020, when Medicare For All passes, then I get covered automagically and can rely on having free medical care of the highest quality.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Not in too bad of shape for age 64. After 2020, when Medicare For All passes, then I get covered automagically and can rely on having free medical care of the highest quality.
    You keep repeating that word. Why?
    All medical coverage costs one way or the other, either through purchase of private sector premiums from profit driven insurance companies or through taxes paid into a fund, or some combination of several systems tiered or not, with an overlay of private sector, or not, profit oriented operating alongside nonprofit, or not.
    Every country that operates any kind of public health care has pursued research into how it could be best implemented in their own country.
    Clearly, any effort here will require the same level of research, and what we wind up hammering out may not be identical to any other system.
    But it won't be "free", nor has anybody ever said it would be.

    Everybody, or nearly everybody, who runs around talking about so called "free stuff" knows that the phrase is nonsense, and they know that no one on the left has ever promoted the thought that anything is free.
    So, you surely cannot be so ignorant.
    The joke is weak and tired, so how about you knock it off if you want to talk seriously about the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Exactly who do you think you are, Generalissimo? Enough of your holier than thou. I get my preaching in church. Maybe they'll name a cocktail after you and you'll be famous.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    You keep repeating that word. Why?
    All medical coverage costs one way or the other, either through purchase of private sector premiums from profit driven insurance companies or through taxes paid into a fund, or some combination of several systems tiered or not, with an overlay of private sector, or not, profit oriented operating alongside nonprofit, or not.
    Every country that operates any kind of public health care has pursued research into how it could be best implemented in their own country.
    Clearly, any effort here will require the same level of research, and what we wind up hammering out may not be identical to any other system.
    But it won't be "free", nor has anybody ever said it would be.

    Everybody, or nearly everybody, who runs around talking about so called "free stuff" knows that the phrase is nonsense, and they know that no one on the left has ever promoted the thought that anything is free.
    So, you surely cannot be so ignorant.
    The joke is weak and tired, so how about you knock it off if you want to talk seriously about the subject.
    Yep, reality will likely continue to exist, but with wondrous bills like this then utopia may be right around the corner.

    This bill establishes the Medicare for All Program to provide all individuals residing in the United States and U.S. territories with free health care that includes all medically necessary care, such as primary care and prevention, dietary and nutritional therapies, prescription drugs, emergency care, long-term care, mental health services, dental services, and vision care.
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...house-bill/676
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Hard to figure out why Bernie Bros are widely regarded as gross and sexist.
    If she were a man, I wouldn't hesitate to use similar language. A prostitute is a prostitute regardless of gender; try again.

    Besides, Bernie's supporters now consist more of women and minorities than men; the 'Bernie Bros' smear was so 2016: https://boingboing.net/2018/01/22/a-...elieve-in.html

    Anyway, looks like someone got hold of a deck that:

    1. Asserts Dem commitment to universal coverage (that's good!)
    2. Envisions advancing last session's 5155 and related legislation to expand and improve coverage, not to mention mapping out critical state-level steps to protect Medicaid and the ACA (that's good!)
    3. Contemplates fixing traditional Medicare's benefit design (that's good!)
    4. Identifies several key policy issues that have pretty wide support to tackle, from prescription drug pricing to surprise medical billing (that's good!)
    5. Acknowledges that single-payer (1) has costs associated with it, (2) creates winners and losers, engendering organized stakeholder opposition, and (3) poses significant implementation challenges (all true!)


    Scandal of the century.
    Your typically disingenuous sugar coating aside, the whole bit where Wendell Primus said that the Democrats would be 'allies to the insurance industry in the fight against single-payer healthcare' isn't a scandal to you? How he told them 'not to worry about' MFA? The ridiculous inversion of roles as he took up the mantle of lobbyist against MFA in preaching to the choir every excuse he could muster against it, essentially trash talking the movement in order to reassure a nervous industry to keep their donor dolleros coming, going starkly against the overwhelming majoritarian opinion of his own party, as though the collective views of rank and file Democrats meant nothing?

    I understand you think private insurers making bank at the expense of Americans is awesome and should continue pretty much indefinitely, but you could stand to be a bit less transparent about it... or just fess up and say that's where you're at.

    I personally wouldn't mind nearly as much if Pelosi and her cronies were just frank about their position that she's with health insurers, she vehemently opposes MFA, and feels that their industry should be preserved at the cost of MFA and other similar legislation primarily because they're such great donors to Democratic coffers. Sure there'll be a steep political price to pay, and the backlash would likely be immense, but that's exactly what they deserve.
    Last edited by Surrealistik; 02-07-19 at 08:27 PM.
    "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." -Alberto Brandolini

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep, reality will likely continue to exist, but with wondrous bills like this then utopia may be right around the corner.



    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...house-bill/676
    And what is your point? You pretending that a bill like that will move through any legislative body, even possibly a Democratic supermajority in both chambers, with no alterations and no discussion or hearings?
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Exactly who do you think you are, Generalissimo? Enough of your holier than thou. I get my preaching in church. Maybe they'll name a cocktail after you and you'll be famous.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    And what is your point? You pretending that a bill like that will move through any legislative body, even possibly a Democratic supermajority in both chambers, with no alterations and no discussion or hearings?
    I'm far from the only one doing such pretending (H.R. 676 has 124 cosponsors) - the 2020 POTUS race is already underway and all manner of utopian plans are being offered as campaign "promises" by extremely trustworthy demorats. I already have my first "free" appointment scheduled under Medicare at the clinic.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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