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Thread: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing MFA

  1. #111
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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I provided a poll that said you were wrong and when you tell people the truth it drops to 30% or so.
    why are you so against telling people the truth?
    No yuou provided a poll that asked IF (but didn't state that that IF would actually happen).

    Hell if you ran a poll that asked people "Would you support MFA if it meant that everyone was killed when they reached the age of 65?" the support would be even lower than 30% - but no one would believe you if you ran around telling people that the introduction of MFA meant that everyone who reached the age of 65 would automatically be killed.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    The same argument was raised in Saskatchewan when Canada's first "universal medical care" insurance program was adopted. The doctors were incensed that they were only going to receive 80% of the negotiated fee schedule if they billed the provincial insurance program.

    Then someone sat down and ran the numbers.

    It turns out that the doctors were actually only receiving 50% of the amount that they were billing (the fees under the schedules for the "socialist" program were the same as fees that the provincial medical association had agreed that its member should be charging).

    It didn't take long for some bright boy to point out that the doctors would be "slightly" better off getting 80% of the fees that they "should have" been charging than to be getting 50% of the fees that they "should have" been charging. It only took slightly longer for someone to work out that going into the provincial medical insurance program actually resulted in a 60% INCREASE in what the doctors were actually receiving (and "should have" been receiving).



    See above.



    It might.



    I must be incredibly wealthy then because my left-wing, pinko, liberal, socialist, commie "universal medical insurance" plan generally gets me in to see a doctor within a couple of hours if I simply drop into the doctor's office.



    Possibly, in 2016 I was paying $75.00 per month for 100% coverage. In 2017 that increased to $35.50. In 2018 that increased again - this time to $0.00. <snarc>I can hardly wait for 2020 to roll around when they start paying me to be insured.</snarc>



    1. Since I actually pay less in taxes and personal medical care premiums than an average person in the United States of America would pay, your "pay way more in taxes" doesn't quite ring true to me. Since the elimination of the employer's cost of providing medical insurance declines to zero that money is available to either increase wages to cover the employee's direct insurance premiums or increase profits. Guess which way the employees are likely to be inclined. Guess what the PR effect on a company is going to be to "__[fill in the blank]__ tossed all of its employees under the bus by keeping the money that it used to pay for medical insurance in order to increase dividends to its shareholders.".

    2. The average wait time for a person with healthcare insurance in Canada IS longer than the average wait time for a person with healthcare insurance in the US. However the average wait time for ALL people in Canada is shorter than the average wait time for ALL people in the US. This is because those people who don't have healthcare insurance in the US don't get counted when figuring out how long the average wait time is in the US. Possibly one reason for this is that (to simplify) the average of 1 + 1 is lower than the average of 1.1 + 1.1 while the average of 1 + 1 + infinity is higher than the average of 1.1 + 1.1 + 1.1.

    3. Even in the US you don't have "access to the doctors that you want". What you have is "access to the doctors that will accept you as a patient". Now I will admit that it is possible for a doctor to be so philosophically opposed to "Socialized Medicine" that they7 would dump all of their existing patient list (at least those who wouldn't agree to pay cash or through personally paid insurance programs) but I rather suspect that the number of doctors who would be willing to (at least) halve their patient list (and their income) is one hell of a lot lower than the number of doctors who say that they will do that. The doctors in Saskatchewan said that that was what they were going to do, but they decided that having a steady income that was actually higher than they had been receiving previously and with fewer adinistrative headaches had a slight "moral edge" over going bankrupt or into some other line of work.
    you live in canada so your opinion is moot.
    we have ~10x the amount of people living in the US than you do.

    yet it still takes people in canada about a year to see a doctor.
    I in all honesty don't care what you pay.

    I have seen the numbers for medicare for all in the US.
    estimates project 35 trillion i say 40 trillion over 10 years with overhead.

    next comes the payroll taxes. the average payroll tax for universal healthcare is about 30%.
    next medicare doesn't cover everything. Which means you will need a suppliment plan to fill in
    what it doesn't cover. those plans run about 250-300 bucks a month.

    so no it isn't cheaper than my private plan i have now.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Did you notice that your argument is based on "Single-payer WILL DO..." and the poll was actually on "IF Single-payer DID ..."?

    You do know the difference between the two, don't you?
    wrong the plan was based on Medicare for all. you should read closer.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    No yuou provided a poll that asked IF (but didn't state that that IF would actually happen).

    Hell if you ran a poll that asked people "Would you support MFA if it meant that everyone was killed when they reached the age of 65?" the support would be even lower than 30% - but no one would believe you if you ran around telling people that the introduction of MFA meant that everyone who reached the age of 65 would automatically be killed.
    again your in canada so i could careless.

    the people here pushing medicare for all refuse to tell people the truth.
    when people are finally asked about the truth and told the truth of the plan
    their overall support for it drops to about 30%.

    why? because the plan overall sucks.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Single payer or bust. I don't give a **** if it's not an enumerated right. I don't care about some rightists inumane worldview.

    The welfare clause covers this. The majority wants it. Time for the rich scum pharma and medical providers to be put behind the people.
    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. - Milton

    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    again your in canada so i could careless.

    the people here pushing medicare for all refuse to tell people the truth.
    when people are finally asked about the truth and told the truth of the plan
    their overall support for it drops to about 30%.

    why? because the plan overall sucks.
    You have one (1) poll that posits theoretical flaws to poll takers without offering counterpoints (which also notes significant increases in support when poll takers are exposed to arguments in favour).

    Again, not really convincing at all; let's see what happens when poll takers are presented with both sides of the argument.

    Your other points have been addressed repeatedly throughout this thread, and the final conclusion is we pay ~2-2.5x as much per capita for results that are mediocre to middling with a couple of bright spots.
    Last edited by Surrealistik; 02-11-19 at 04:31 PM.
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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    And yet both California and the city of New York are working on single payer health systems. Guess they don't agree with you.
    I said it does not APPEAR possible.

    I can see how it MIGHT be possible for a State to offer a benefit that is tied to "State Citizenship", but - absent actually establishing "State Citizenship" - it is going to be very difficult for a single state to set up its own "universal" program and NOT have to provide benefits for anyone who saunters into the state.

    I suspect that a city would have even more difficulty because having it as a "municipal service" would mean that it had to be available to every person in the municipality (much like the FDNY would be available if a South Dakota registered car that was owned by someone from Florida and was being driven by someone from Japan caught fire on a New York street).

    PS - Did you know that "__[fill in the blank]__ looks like they do not agree with you." does not mean the same thing as "You are wrong and here's why."?

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    From the Intercept:

    https://theintercept.com/2019/02/05/...c_ZBhVP927170I



    Disappointed but entirely unsurprising; I anticipated and expected nothing less from a career donor courtesan like Pelosi who spends more time on her knees courting monied interests (and perversely insisting that this qualifies her to lead the House) than legislating and getting the business of the country done. Pelosi trying to argue that "the comfort level with a broader base of the American people is not there yet" despite upwards of 70% polled popular support and solid majoritarian support amongst Republicans is beyond laughable; please. She knows damn well that MFA is opposed about exclusively by committed ideological opposition across the aisle, wealthier individuals who have no need of it, Dem megadonors, and their steadfast shills in the Dem party leadership.

    Again, Cenk Uygur on point:

    I also think part of it is that Nancy doesnt want Medicare for All or single payer. The woman has never worried about her healthcare, we the taxpayers, have always paid for it. So in many ways why would she want it? Why risk all that campaign money?

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    People are understandably skittish at the idea of seeing their health care downgraded or disappear altogether. It's too early to consider replacing private health insurance. Much smarter is to create a public option and give people the choice to move into that if they wish.
    Most politicians would be fearful of getting rid of insurers due to the amount of jobs in each state related to it. It would be like cutting defense, gets talked about but never happens. Too many jobs in districts. Full pressure. Wont happen anytime soon if ever.

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    Re: Top Nancy Pelosi Aide Privately Tells Insurance Executives Not To Worry About Democrats Pushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    You have one (1) poll that posits theoretical flaws to poll takers without offering counterpoints (which also notes significant increases in support when poll takers are exposed to arguments in favour).

    Again, not really convincing at all; let's see what happens when poll takers are presented with both sides of the argument.

    Your other points have been addressed repeatedly throughout this thread, and the final conclusion is we pay ~2-2.5x as much per capita for results that are mediocre to middling with a couple of bright spots.
    no there are more than one poll that reflect the same thing.
    i simply just posted 1 instead of a million as i don't have to.

    I have highlighted both sides of the argument in the article i posted.

    when lied too people look favorably on medicare for all.
    when told the truth people don't like it that much.

    amazing how that works.

    I will gladly pay more money if it means better doctors better technology.
    i will gladly pay more if it means getting the medication i need to being able to have a surgery that i need
    as well.

    you might not want those things but i sure like them.
    actually the results are really good.

    number 1 in doctors, medical procedures, medical technology, and drugs.

    there are things that can be done to lower the cost a great deal, but turning it over to the government isn't one of those
    things.

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