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Top 3% of U.S. Taxpayers Paid Majority of Income Taxes in 2016

MTAtech said:
From the Balance:
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With a $24,000 Standard Deduction, the tax liability for millions of people went from small to nothing.

It's hard to get lower than nothing.

Democrat Party Analysis, however, seems to achieve this near impossible goal on an ongoing basis.
 
A shoutout to rich people.

They make a lot of money, and they pay a lot of taxes.

They make it possible to have many of the government benefits that we ordinary people enjoy every day.


They are the most productive of our citizens, especially those who own companies that provide employment to millions.


In general, they are more courteous and tolerant than us ordinary people.

Let's stop demonizing the rich.
 
Verax said:
Would you rather pay 0% income tax on 10k of income or 50% tax on 1 million in income?

Where does the money come from that the wealthy collect? It comes from the hard work of everyone below them (and also their hard work). So it's a tax on the money that is funneled upwards to the ownership class.

Are the wealthy victims here?

557ef766ecad04fe50a257cd-750-412.jpg
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Seems like if the wealth derives from the work of the many instead of the vision of the few, that the many could produce the wealth without the hinderance of the few.

How do you explain the inability of the many to do this?
 
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Chomsky said:
No, I'm referring to the past several spending bills that Trump signed - including the omnibus - have increased the number of H2Bs every time. They even allowed an additional 15K this May, for summer employment.

The law is the problem. Trump & Congress make the law. Whatever they make, is law. We need less H2B and H1B immigration, not more laws forcing it upon the country.
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You seem to be in touch with this.

When I was young, I seem to recall that I could not get a paycheck kind of a job until I was 16. At that time, I started working at a hamburger stand and still have my first pay stub.

I grossed less than $40.00 on a 40 hour work week. I WAS RICH!

Anyway, are there current laws that prohibit 16 year olds from taking these jobs? I've heard that employment of minors is tough currently and wondered why.
 
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MSgt said:
Nobody wonders this.

It's about proportion. A millionaire who pays 5% taxes will pay more than the factory worker who also pays 5%. But for that millionaire, 5% is a flushing. For that worker, that 5% is a burden to family. Of course, those millionaires and billionaires, who are attached to high level corporations and banks, will turn around and ask the government for a handout after they bust the economy; and for the deployment of the military to protect their revenue stream, won't they?

But why are you so obsessed with protecting the wealthy anyway? What's the point? They aren't going to give you any of it. They weren't hurting before the tax-cut Bill celebrated their status, and they are damn sure not hurting now.
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What is often ignored is that the federal income tax (FIT) is only part of the total federal revenue (taxation) picture. Even among the FIT, individual (progressive rate) income taxation is only part of the picture due to corporate (flat rate) income taxation. What has been happeneing is that the individual taxation burden, both progressive income and regressive payroll, has been increasing while the flat corporate taxation burden has been decreasing.

The following article shows the various federal revenue sources and how they have changed over (farily recent) time:

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sources-revenue-federal-government
 
Nap said:
I think for scientists and doctors we should be actively recruiting people to immigrate. If someone has a medical degree or an elite scientist the US should be contacting them and offer automatic citizenship for them and their family.

Actually, we disagree on social safety net. I was saying we need to limit immigration due to it in order to make sure we only allow in those with skills that ensure they would pay into the system rather than be a drain on it.
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You are not wrong, but your position seems to stand on a faulty ideological base. Most "illegal" immigrants in the U.S. do pay taxes in the billions. They pick our fruit and vegetables every single day. Find an American eighteen-year old, who's ambition is to pick grapes.

The U.S. has a history of offering "automatic" citizenship to the select. In fact, the U.S. absolutely welcomed former Nazis (who would not have been Nazi were it not for their environmental situation), based on their intellect, cooperation, and potential for future. Meh, that's the history.

But the U.S. really doesn't have the drain problem that has become a feature of conservative talking points (and liberal shoulder shrugging). I currently, temporarily, live in England, where I have to pay 40% taxes, which is largely based on "free" medical, in which I largely already get through U.S. government military retirement (um..socialism), for which I earned through contract and still pay taxes. An accountant who specializes in expat issues tells me that I will get most of that back before I return to the land of Trumpocracy next summer, based simply on the fact that I can skip the "free" line here because I have private insurance. Anyway, the area I live in is full of Indians (dot) and Muslims from various locations. They were obviously able to afford to get beyond the English Channel so that they can enjoy "free" medical. They still pay their taxes for it, but they did bring their culture which pisses me off, and I'm not English. This is what the general conservative, though unwittingly for the more ignorant of them, is upset about.

My point is that as much as some Americans wish to adopt Europe's troubles as their own, our problems are not easily comparable. For example: I am currently on wine and just want somebody to pick a grape.....
 
MSgt said:
Nobody wonders this.

It's about proportion. A millionaire who pays 5% taxes will pay more than the factory worker who also pays 5%. But for that millionaire, 5% is a flushing. For that worker, that 5% is a burden to family. Of course, those millionaires and billionaires, who are attached to high level corporations and banks, will turn around and ask the government for a handout after they bust the economy; and for the deployment of the military to protect their revenue stream, won't they?

But why are you so obsessed with protecting the wealthy anyway? What's the point? They aren't going to give you any of it. They weren't hurting before the tax-cut Bill celebrated their status, and they are damn sure not hurting now.
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I don't believe in the progressive taxation model. It creates envy, unduly punishes success and divides the nation. I'm for a National Sales Tax, the Fair Tax plan or a flat tax where EVERYONE has skin in the game.
 
Renae said:
I don't believe in the progressive taxation model. It creates envy, unduly punishes success and divides the nation. I'm for a National Sales Tax, the Fair Tax plan or a flat tax where EVERYONE has skin in the game.
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Fair enough, but doesn't everybody already have skin in the game?

- People who temporarily receive welfare have paid taxes. Think of it as insurance, where somebody seeks to cash in because of disaster, while the company complains and looks for ways not to have to live up to obligation.

- Undocumented immigrants have paid billions in taxes.

And since the wealthy benefited most, by far, from the recent Trump-instigated Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which was falsely argued as a Bill for the Middle Class, I don't get your position. There is no envy, only observed barriers as money is going up even quicker at everybody else's expense. There is no undue punishment, especially with the wealthy owning "the swamp." And the only division comes from the idea that the wealthy are victims or some "communist" uprising who dares steal their money.
 
You're welcome.
 
MSgt said:
You are not wrong, but your position seems to stand on a faulty ideological base. Most "illegal" immigrants in the U.S. do pay taxes in the billions. They pick our fruit and vegetables every single day. Find an American eighteen-year old, who's ambition is to pick grapes.

The U.S. has a history of offering "automatic" citizenship to the select. In fact, the U.S. absolutely welcomed former Nazis (who would not have been Nazi were it not for their environmental situation), based on their intellect, cooperation, and potential for future. Meh, that's the history.

But the U.S. really doesn't have the drain problem that has become a feature of conservative talking points (and liberal shoulder shrugging). I currently, temporarily, live in England, where I have to pay 40% taxes, which is largely based on "free" medical, in which I largely already get through U.S. government military retirement (um..socialism), for which I earned through contract and still pay taxes. An accountant who specializes in expat issues tells me that I will get most of that back before I return to the land of Trumpocracy next summer, based simply on the fact that I can skip the "free" line here because I have private insurance. Anyway, the area I live in is full of Indians (dot) and Muslims from various locations. They were obviously able to afford to get beyond the English Channel so that they can enjoy "free" medical. They still pay their taxes for it, but they did bring their culture which pisses me off, and I'm not English. This is what the general conservative, though unwittingly for the more ignorant of them, is upset about.

My point is that as much as some Americans wish to adopt Europe's troubles as their own, our problems are not easily comparable. For example: I am currently on wine and just want somebody to pick a grape.....
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our representatives are out of touch with the reality of the middle/working class lives.

but the people have no bread!

then let them eat cake.
 
iguanaman said:
No we wonder why the deficit is nearing a trillion per year and why so few people make so much of the money.
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its mainly because the federal government engages in billions of dollars of spending it has no proper power to do so. politicians understand that once a program is relied upon by a certain number of voters, it cannot be eliminated. when the federal courts abdicate their duty, government grows and its a ratchet
 
MSgt said:
Fair enough, but doesn't everybody already have skin in the game?

- People who temporarily receive welfare have paid taxes. Think of it as insurance, where somebody seeks to cash in because of disaster, while the company complains and looks for ways not to have to live up to obligation.

- Undocumented immigrants have paid billions in taxes.

And since the wealthy benefited most, by far, from the recent Trump-instigated Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which was falsely argued as a Bill for the Middle Class, I don't get your position. There is no envy, only observed barriers as money is going up even quicker at everybody else's expense. There is no undue punishment, especially with the wealthy owning "the swamp." And the only division comes from the idea that the wealthy are victims or some "communist" uprising who dares steal their money.
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No, most Americans, a majority pay little to nothing in taxes. It's far easier to appeal to people to raise taxes if they aren't affected, it is far easier to say "Vote for me, I'll make sure those RICH people lose some wealth and I'll make sure you get some of it" than it is to say "Vote for me I'll raise your taxes".

It's politics 101, when most of the people aren't affected in the pocket book you can get their votes.


Imagine if every tax raise or tax cut affected everyone equally... you might just see the budget more soundly handled. But when 50% of the nations taxes come from so few...
 
Renae said:
No, most Americans, a majority pay little to nothing in taxes. It's far easier to appeal to people to raise taxes if they aren't affected, it is far easier to say "Vote for me, I'll make sure those RICH people lose some wealth and I'll make sure you get some of it" than it is to say "Vote for me I'll raise your taxes".

It's politics 101, when most of the people aren't affected in the pocket book you can get their votes.


Imagine if every tax raise or tax cut affected everyone equally... you might just see the budget more soundly handled. But when 50% of the nations taxes come from so few...
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most Americans do not receive the proper feedback as to the cost of the federal government. so they keep voting for more and more government. if ALL voters had to pay more taxes every time government grew-the appeal of more government would quickly dissipate.
 
TurtleDude said:
its mainly because the federal government engages in billions of dollars of spending it has no proper power to do so. politicians understand that once a program is relied upon by a certain number of voters, it cannot be eliminated. when the federal courts abdicate their duty, government grows and its a ratchet
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So 90% of the wealth belonging to 5% of the population is the Govts. fault? That is the smartest thing I have heard you say....ever.
 
iguanaman said:
So 90% of the wealth belonging to 5% of the population is the Govts. fault? That is the smartest thing I have heard you say....ever.
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well it is actually the fault or responsibility of those who own our representatives. they are the ones who have gotten our representatives to rewrite the tax code in their favor. they are also the ones who demand their bought and paid for representatives to continue to push tax cuts with trillion dollar deficits.

and it is our fault for continuing to elect those same old bought and.paid for representatives

it is our fault for.allowing the wealthy and corporations unlimited money in politics where they can buy our representatives.
 
iguanaman said:
No we wonder why the deficit is nearing a trillion per year and why so few people make so much of the money.
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Your solution is what? Theft because life is unfair?
 
chuckiechan said:
It could have something to do with America being the only country that I know of that imports poverty, thereby creating cheap labor that tends to strangle upward wage pressure. The only people who benefit from cheap labor are those who hire them:

People like me: yard care, housekeeping, light trades (painting, fencing, etc.)
People like the 1%: All of the above plus accountants and accounting firms, all building trades, clerks, call centers, programmers, CAD draftsmen, etc. Jobs "Americans won't do". Yup.

IOW, your government is doing it. It began under Clinton, and accelerated under Bush W and Obama, and your government did it because you let the media tell you what is important in your life - Roe vs Wade, single payer health care, immigration "reform", amnesty. None of which affect your life to any big degree.

And they stuck you in the ass each time because you fell for it!

Not one question to Kavenaugh like "Do you feel the government has the power to prohibit US companies from entering into technology sharing agreements with China in order to operate there?"

Na. That's too important and too confusing for a 15 second sound bite. That is Your fault for not demanding an answer that you care about.
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Importing cheap labor has existed since the founding of this country. From slavery to mass immigration of European immigrants. I hate what Clinton did to the democratic party but he certainly didn't start this. You also might want to add that those political issues do actually affect the typical American's life. If you have the money to pay for painting, landscaping, and housekeeping you are doing much better than most.
 
MSgt said:
You are not wrong, but your position seems to stand on a faulty ideological base. Most "illegal" immigrants in the U.S. do pay taxes in the billions. They pick our fruit and vegetables every single day. Find an American eighteen-year old, who's ambition is to pick grapes.

The U.S. has a history of offering "automatic" citizenship to the select. In fact, the U.S. absolutely welcomed former Nazis (who would not have been Nazi were it not for their environmental situation), based on their intellect, cooperation, and potential for future. Meh, that's the history.

But the U.S. really doesn't have the drain problem that has become a feature of conservative talking points (and liberal shoulder shrugging). I currently, temporarily, live in England, where I have to pay 40% taxes, which is largely based on "free" medical, in which I largely already get through U.S. government military retirement (um..socialism), for which I earned through contract and still pay taxes. An accountant who specializes in expat issues tells me that I will get most of that back before I return to the land of Trumpocracy next summer, based simply on the fact that I can skip the "free" line here because I have private insurance. Anyway, the area I live in is full of Indians (dot) and Muslims from various locations. They were obviously able to afford to get beyond the English Channel so that they can enjoy "free" medical. They still pay their taxes for it, but they did bring their culture which pisses me off, and I'm not English. This is what the general conservative, though unwittingly for the more ignorant of them, is upset about.

My point is that as much as some Americans wish to adopt Europe's troubles as their own, our problems are not easily comparable. For example: I am currently on wine and just want somebody to pick a grape.....
Click to expand...

This is because you made a faulty assumption that I was referring to "illegal" immigration. I think everyone here illegally should either be deported immediately or given a pathway to citizenship. The people that use the line "but they do the jobs Americans won't do" makes me sick as they are complicit in having a second class citizenry being exploited, on top of hurting employers that try to do the right thing by hiring only American citizens.
 
Nap said:
This is because you made a faulty assumption that I was referring to "illegal" immigration. I think everyone here illegally should either be deported immediately or given a pathway to citizenship. The people that use the line "but they do the jobs Americans won't do" makes me sick as they are complicit in having a second class citizenry being exploited, on top of hurting employers that try to do the right thing by hiring only American citizens.
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why is it the illegals that get demonized and not the Americans hiring them?

we could easily stop the entire mess just making everify mandatory and fining those who hire illegals.

do you ever wonder why congress won't take this simple step?
 
Renae said:
Your solution is what? Theft because life is unfair?
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The solution is to take away control of this country from the wealthy. They have been stacking the deck in their favor for decades.
 
rickc said:
why is it the illegals that get demonized and not the Americans hiring them?

we could easily stop the entire mess just making everify mandatory and fining those who hire illegals.

do you ever wonder why congress won't take this simple step?
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I have stated many times on this forum that the way we go after illegals rather than the employers is pointless. As long as people have the incentive to risk coming here illegally they will do so. If the government shut down the hiring of illegal immigrants it would greatly reduce those coming here.
 
rickc said:
well it is actually the fault or responsibility of those who own our representatives. they are the ones who have gotten our representatives to rewrite the tax code in their favor. they are also the ones who demand their bought and paid for representatives to continue to push tax cuts with trillion dollar deficits.

and it is our fault for continuing to elect those same old bought and.paid for representatives

it is our fault for.allowing the wealthy and corporations unlimited money in politics where they can buy our representatives.
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That's essentially right and the reason income inequality is lower in European democracies, where it is harder for the super-rich get to interfere with the people's desire to support redistribution of income.
 
Renae said:
No, most Americans, a majority pay little to nothing in taxes. It's far easier to appeal to people to raise taxes if they aren't affected, it is far easier to say "Vote for me, I'll make sure those RICH people lose some wealth and I'll make sure you get some of it" than it is to say "Vote for me I'll raise your taxes".

It's politics 101, when most of the people aren't affected in the pocket book you can get their votes.


Imagine if every tax raise or tax cut affected everyone equally... you might just see the budget more soundly handled. But when 50% of the nations taxes come from so few...
Click to expand...

Sadly the more you complain about most Americans not paying taxes the more you highlight the real problem. Most Americans don't make enough to afford to pay Federal income taxes and the rich pay a smaller and smaller part of their income in taxes every time Republicans get in power and you wonder why the deficit keeps going up. It is unsustainable.
There isn't one American who would not love to make enough income to afford to pay income tax but that would mean the wealthy got less so that is out.
 
iguanaman said:
Sadly the more you complain about most Americans not paying taxes the more you highlight the real problem. Most Americans don't make enough to afford to pay Federal income taxes and the rich pay a smaller and smaller part of their income in taxes every time Republicans get in power and you wonder why the deficit keeps going up. It is unsustainable.
There isn't one American who would not love to make enough income to afford to pay income tax but that would mean the wealthy got less so that is out.
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No Iguana, that's not it, that's just more stupid classwarfare bull****.
 
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