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USA Today: Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors

MTAtech

MTAtech

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USA Today: Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors

Throughout the year, we have seen Democrats across the country uniting around a new legislative proposal that would end Medicare as we know it and take away benefits that seniors have paid for their entire lives.

Dishonestly called “Medicare for All,” the Democratic proposal would establish a government-run, single-payer health care system that eliminates all private and employer-based health care plans and would cost an astonishing $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years.
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Trump's op-ed is typical Trump -- that is to say merely a lie.

Republicans are clearly feeling the heat on their opposition to American's having affordable healthcare. This stunningly dishonest op-ed from Donald Trump. If he had any significant role in writing it, reeks of desperation. "Democrats want us to become Venezuela" is now a popular trope on the right, which is fed by some journalists whose brains apparently freeze when they see the word "socialist." The reality is that Democratic proposals don't look at all like policies from people who want us to be Venezuela; it looks like people who wants us to be more like Denmark.

While Swampy claims that he wants to protect pre-existing coverage, a Democratic measure aimed at eliminating short-term health care plans that don't cover pre-existing conditions failed in the Senate on Wednesday in a tied vote of 50-50.
 
MTAtech said:
USA Today: Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors



Trump's op-ed is typical Trump -- that is to say merely a lie.

Republicans are clearly feeling the heat on their opposition to American's having affordable healthcare. This stunningly dishonest op-ed from Donald Trump. If he had any significant role in writing it, reeks of desperation. "Democrats want us to become Venezuela" is now a popular trope on the right, which is fed by some journalists whose brains apparently freeze when they see the word "socialist." The reality is that Democratic proposals don't look at all like policies from people who want us to be Venezuela; it looks like people who wants us to be more like Denmark.
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Everyone already knows, and have know for a loooong time, that Trump is a pathologically dishonest whore.

That said, this raises some rather serious questions on USA Today's policy for publishing demonstrable lies in outside oped pieces.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Everyone already knows, and have know for a loooong time, that Trump is a pathologically dishonest whore.

That said, this raises some rather serious questions on USA Today's policy for publishing demonstrable lies in outside oped pieces.
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I think it is fine for them to publish opinions that are lies. They should also put in the news section that Trump issued an op-ed that is a lie. Of course, that's a dog bits man story.
 
MTAtech said:
USA Today: Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors



Trump's op-ed is typical Trump -- that is to say merely a lie.

Republicans are clearly feeling the heat on their opposition to American's having affordable healthcare. This stunningly dishonest op-ed from Donald Trump. If he had any significant role in writing it, reeks of desperation. "Democrats want us to become Venezuela" is now a popular trope on the right, which is fed by some journalists whose brains apparently freeze when they see the word "socialist." The reality is that Democratic proposals don't look at all like policies from people who want us to be Venezuela; it looks like people who wants us to be more like Denmark.

While Swampy claims that he wants to protect pre-existing coverage, a Democratic measure aimed at eliminating short-term health care plans that don't cover pre-existing conditions failed in the Senate on Wednesday in a tied vote of 50-50.
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The Personal Income Tax Rate in Denmark stands at 55.8 percent.
 
Barnacle said:
The Personal Income Tax Rate in Denmark stands at 55.8 percent.
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So? If taxes pay for your health insurance, a social safety net and college costs, that rate is a bargain.
 
"The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present."

-Machiavelli
 
MTAtech said:
So? If taxes pay for your health insurance, a social safety net and college costs, that rate is a bargain.
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Whether or not it is a bargain depends on your income level. If you don’t earn enough to pay for those things on your own it is certainly a bargain. But for higher income individuals who pay more in taxes than they will ever receive in benefits it certainly isn’t.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Whether or not it is a bargain depends on your income level. If you don’t earn enough to pay for those things on your own it is certainly a bargain. But for higher income individuals who pay more in taxes than they will ever receive in benefits it certainly isn’t.
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That's the nature of redistribution -- an American idea. during the Progressive Era, it was commonplace and widely accepted to support high taxes on the rich specifically in order to keep the rich from getting richer -- explicitly to prevent dynasties like old Europe.
 
MTAtech said:
That's the nature of redistribution -- an American idea. during the Progressive Era, it was commonplace and widely accepted to support high taxes on the rich specifically in order to keep the rich from getting richer -- explicitly to prevent dynasties like old Europe.
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I’m a proponent of progressive taxation but let’s not pretend it is a “bargain” for everyone.
 
As a candidate, I promised that we would protect coverage for patients with pre-existing conditions ...
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Did USA Today put in the hyperlink there to the story pointing out that Trump flip flopped and is now in court desperately trying to bring back pre-existing conditions? Or did whoever wrote the op/ed for Trump do that?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I’m a proponent of progressive taxation but let’s not pretend it is a “bargain” for everyone.
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There is an interesting piece in today's NYT from a tax expert, who outlines the many ways that the rich avoid taxes. This one was notable:

...
To see how the ultrarich acquire their wealth, look at the Forbes 400, an annual listing of the wealthiest Americans. This year an individual needed to have more than $2 billion to be included, and together the Fortune 400 group controls over $3 trillion. This enormous wealth was generally acquired in one of two ways: through inheritance or by building or investing in a successful business.
How do income taxes apply to these ways of acquiring wealth? They don’t.

Like Donald Trump, many of the Forbes 400 acquired some or all of their wealth from their parents. These transfers of wealth pass entirely free of income taxes.
...
This may be surprising, because the income tax purports to be imposed on “all income from whatever source derived” — and the I.R.S. is clear that this should be interpreted broadly to include not just a person’s salary, but also unemployment benefits, lottery winnings and even the cash value of bartered items.

Nonetheless, the income tax code has an explicit exclusion for funds received by gift and inheritance. The reason for this exclusion is not clear. Gifts and inheritances were originally subject to tax in the first income tax code and were removed in 1913. One tax scholar suggests “the tale is simply one of the triumph of lobbyists.” As a result, a person can inherit $100 million, or even $100 billion, and owe no income taxes.

There is not even a requirement to report that money on a tax return. This allows the wealthy to believe that their tax liability is more burdensome than it actually is. Imagine a person with a $1 million salary (subject to $350,000 in income taxes) and a $100 million inheritance. Since he has to report only that $1 million, he might think he is paying taxes at a rate of 35 percent, when his actual tax burden is less than 1 percent of the wealth he acquired that year.
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MTAtech said:
There is an interesting piece in today's NYT from a tax expert, who outlines the many ways that the rich avoid taxes. This one was notable:
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That's always my suggestion when eliminating the "death" tax comes up. OK, fine, treat it as income and tax it for everyone. It's clearly 'income' and if you repeal the tax code sections having to do with estate and gift taxes, taxable like 'other income' on a 1040.

For some reason, the "death" tax opponents don't like that idea. What they want is for rich kids to inherit from daddy free of all taxes. Of course, the bottom 99% or more do inherit free from taxes, and they get a step up in basis on inherited assets, so the estate tax is a huge loophole for all but the very wealthy.
 
MTAtech said:
USA Today: Donald Trump: Democrats 'Medicare for All' plan will demolish promises to seniors



Trump's op-ed is typical Trump -- that is to say merely a lie.

Republicans are clearly feeling the heat on their opposition to American's having affordable healthcare. This stunningly dishonest op-ed from Donald Trump. If he had any significant role in writing it, reeks of desperation. "Democrats want us to become Venezuela" is now a popular trope on the right, which is fed by some journalists whose brains apparently freeze when they see the word "socialist." The reality is that Democratic proposals don't look at all like policies from people who want us to be Venezuela; it looks like people who wants us to be more like Denmark.

While Swampy claims that he wants to protect pre-existing coverage, a Democratic measure aimed at eliminating short-term health care plans that don't cover pre-existing conditions failed in the Senate on Wednesday in a tied vote of 50-50.
Click to expand...

"Medicare for all" will destroy the country. Nevermind breaking promises to seniors.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Everyone already knows, and have know for a loooong time, that Trump is a pathologically dishonest whore.

That said, this raises some rather serious questions on USA Today's policy for publishing demonstrable lies in outside oped pieces.
Click to expand...

It's actually stunning that we're at the point where USA Today is put in that kind of bind - publish an op-ed with obvious lies by our POTUS. I checked some of the hyperlinks and at least USA Today did link to articles in some cases pointing out the lies, but that's also just stunning that it's necessary. And in a week, this will be forgotten. The GOP sure as hell doesn't care at all that they guy at the top of their party is a serial liar.

Rational people now have to assume if the POTUS says it, it's likely a lie, and we have to fact check every statement. And we've largely accepted that as normal.
 
apdst said:
"Medicare for all" will destroy the country. Nevermind breaking promises to seniors.
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Something like it is in place in every country on the planet, and it's not destroyed them. Weird.

And what promises does it break to seniors, except as proposed lowering their premiums and costs?
 
apdst said:
"Medicare for all" will destroy the country. Nevermind breaking promises to seniors.
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Nah. It won't, nor can you prove that it would.

It works in every EU country, Australia, Japan, Korea, etc.... and they're doing just fine.
 
JasperL said:
That's always my suggestion when eliminating the "death" tax comes up. OK, fine, treat it as income and tax it for everyone. It's clearly 'income' and if you repeal the tax code sections having to do with estate and gift taxes, taxable like 'other income' on a 1040.

For some reason, the "death" tax opponents don't like that idea. What they want is for rich kids to inherit from daddy free of all taxes. Of course, the bottom 99% or more do inherit free from taxes, and they get a step up in basis on inherited assets, so the estate tax is a huge loophole for all but the very wealthy.
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How many times should a dollar be taxed?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Nah. It won't, nor can you prove that it would.

It works in every EU country, Australia, Japan, Korea, etc.... and they're doing just fine.
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Those countries don't have illegal aliens flowing across their borders the way The United States does. None of of them have 320,000,000 citizens + 30 million illegals.

Those countries aren't footing our bills the way we're footing theirs.
 
JasperL said:
Something like it is in place in every country on the planet, and it's not destroyed them. Weird.

And what promises does it break to seniors, except as proposed lowering their premiums and costs?
Click to expand...

Those countries don't have illegal aliens flowing across their borders the way The United States does. None of of them have 320,000,000 citizens + 30 million illegals.

Those countries aren't footing our bills the way we're footing theirs.
 
apdst said:
Those countries don't have illegal aliens flowing across their borders the way The United States does. None of of them have 320,000,000 citizens + 30 million illegals.

Those countries aren't footing our bills the way we're footing theirs.
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Irrelevant. Thanks for admitting you have no argument.
 
MTAtech said:
There is an interesting piece in today's NYT from a tax expert, who outlines the many ways that the rich avoid taxes. This one was notable:
Click to expand...

Look, I'm a fan of progressive taxation simply because it can be best for a society overall (and no, it does not stop anyone who was going to get rich anyway from doing so), but I am not buying that guy's argument.

First of all, if your parents earned income they paid taxes on it. So applying income tax again when it is inherited is double-taxation, a literal double-application of the same tax.

Second, don't we still have an estate tax or did the GOP get rid of it last year and I somehow forgot? That is also in a sense double-taxation but it had a very high ceiling from what I remember. (5 million? Or was it raised to 10 million?)

The real problem is the myriad loopholes and strategies that allow the very richest to avoid paying estate taxes and the like (various trusts, etc). I'd say getting rid of that stuff would be a lot better than just applying income tax to inheritance. After all, having an estate tax that starts after a certain amount benefits the less wealthy. If all a middle class person's parents had saved at the end was 10k in assets, should that really get added into their normal income to be double-taxed in a progressive tax structure?

So get rid of those loopholes. Don't apply income tax across the board to inheritance.
 
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