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Taylor Swift Dives Into Politics, Backs Tennessee Dem Candidate For Senate

Fishking said:
I didn't say it was OK, did I? Could you point it out where I said it was OK? For those who can read for comprehension, I was clearly pointing out a false comparison. I'll use the same standard in an analogous situation, just to help ya out.

There is a gay wedding going on and people break into it and start screaming about how they are all evil and going to hell and just proceed to ruin it for everyone else. Someone gets upset and punches them. This is the moral equivalent to the giant mob of protesters that violently attack and assault said gay wedding attendees and participants.

Well...it's morally equivalent in ya'lls reasoning.
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I don't really see the parallel between peacefully protesting at a political rally, headed by a candidate for office, versus someone crashing a wedding party, but it's not surprising you see them as equivalent.

And I don't know what giant mob that violently attacks and assaults you are referring to, but if it's people on the "left" what is obvious is that's a tiny fringe on the left that you're using to disparage roughly 70 million people. More likely they're anarchists who can no more be called on the "left" than can neo-Nazis and skinheads are on "the right."
 
Fishking said:
Unrelated to the left/right subject.
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I see, it doesn't matter if it's a Democrat being shot.

After participating in mutually violent mobs. Also where only one group actually had the permit to be there.
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The woman was a participant in a violent mob? Got a cite for that? All I know is a racist POS saw a bunch of people and rammed his car into them. But I'm not surprised you're excusing it. Trump said good people on both sides - neo-Nazis and those protesting neo-Nazis. Equivalent I think....

Valid
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Hey, we agree!

You want to talk use fringes to compare to the rule? Many of the things I brought up is participated by thousands of people and has support by elected politicians. But sure...let's do fringes....leftists sold nuclear weapons technology to Russia.
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And the protesters at the refuge didn't have the support of elected politicians? You know that's wrong, so why ignore it?

Further, you are clearly using "fringes" to compare to the rule. Almost all the violence on "the left" that I'm aware of is by Antifa thugs who aren't part of the "left" as a group. But if you're going to broad brush the left with Antifa, then why exclude the right wing thugs who also show up with clubs, like many did in Charlottesville. You want to lump the small violent faction on "the left" (actually anarchists) in with ordinary Democrats but then conveniently disavow the right wing thugs who are the ones engaging with Antifa. It's convenient but intellectually dishonest.
 
Fishking said:
"Isolated"....rofl...good one. For isolated events there sure seems to be a lot of them with lots of participants and support from elected officials.
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I pointed to some actual examples. The 2017 women's march was in about 400 U.S. cities, involving MILLIONS (3-5 million) of people on the left. I have a hard time finding a single violent act that resulted in arrest involving protests involving perhaps 5 million marchers.

And, again, you don't get to lump in the RARE exception (violent protests) with the broader "left' but then ignore neo-Nazis and skinheads, or mass murderers like Jim David Adkisson who injured 6 and killed 2 with shotgun blasts during a youth performance at the local Unitarian church, who expressly claimed his goal was to kill liberals, and he exhorted others to do the same, kill them all if possible. There isn't any question that right wing violence kills and injures FAR more than do people on the left, even including the fringe radicals.

BTW, you keep claiming violent protests have the support of elected officials on the left but haven't quoted any...
 
JasperL said:
I don't really see the parallel between peacefully protesting at a political rally, headed by a candidate for office, versus someone crashing a wedding party, but it's not surprising you see them as equivalent.
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Yes, yes...of course not. It just doesn't work for you because it's something that doesn't jive with your political ideology. I mean, I guess it was too much to ask to expect some ideological consistency.

And I don't know what giant mob that violently attacks and assaults you are referring to, but if it's people on the "left" what is obvious is that's a tiny fringe on the left that you're using to disparage roughly 70 million people. More likely they're anarchists who can no more be called on the "left" than can neo-Nazis and skinheads are on "the right."
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I'd be willing to grant you that it doesn't represent anything if public harassment wasn't something that was supported by current elected official. As for the giant violent mobs...did you forget the entire elections, then inauguration day? College campus activity supported by the college academia? It's nit that far out of the mainstream of the left.
 
Fishking said:
Yes, yes...of course not. It just doesn't work for you because it's something that doesn't jive with your political ideology. I mean, I guess it was too much to ask to expect some ideological consistency.
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Political rally - private wedding. Seem different to me somehow. Can't put my finger on it. :roll:

I'd be willing to grant you that it doesn't represent anything if public harassment wasn't something that was supported by current elected official. As for the giant violent mobs...did you forget the entire elections, then inauguration day?
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Once again, you're using the exception to define the rule. Remember the 3-5 million peacefully protesting right after inauguration? Seems relevant when you're tarring those women and others and the 70 million on the left with the actions of a few anarchists on inauguration/election day, properly arrested and charged.

College campus activity supported by the college academia? It's nit that far out of the mainstream of the left.
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I have no idea what elected officials you're referring to or what they support. I'm nearly positive it's not violent mob actions, but maybe you can provide an example so we'll be on the same page about what they said.

Colleges are the same issue. I'm not in favor and have said so many times in protests that have the effect of preventing someone from speaking in peace. But someone posted an article the other day and it was about 150 protests on the left, and 75 on the right, in 5,300 colleges and universities, and only a small percentage of the students at those 225 were involved in those efforts. And if you've read any of the news accounts, the violent factions in those protests are nearly always outsiders, the Antifa types, not students.

I also don't have a problem with protesting, say, someone like Kissinger or far right flame throwers who LOVE the protests because they feed right into the narrative. The line is crossed when the protests have the effect of shutting down speech instead of protesting ideas or that speaker in another location. I'm sure the vast majority on "the left" agree with me on that.
 
JasperL said:
Political rally - private wedding. Seem different to me somehow. Can't put my finger on it. :roll:
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I don't know why, both are private events.

Once again, you're using the exception to define the rule. Remember the 3-5 million peacefully protesting right after inauguration? Seems relevant when you're tarring those women and others and the 70 million on the left with the actions of a few anarchists on inauguration/election day, properly arrested and charged.
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Nice strawman. I never once talked about the Women's March. Nice try.

I have no idea what elected officials you're referring to or what they support. I'm nearly positive it's not violent mob actions, but maybe you can provide an example so we'll be on the same page about what they said.
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Maxine Waters supported harassing people in public, Hillary Clinton said no more civility until they get power back, another Democrat...I'm not recalling her name right now but it was a Congresswoman who was specifically asked about these types of actions and she kept demurring when the questioning was asking to condemn it.

Colleges are the same issue. I'm not in favor and have said so many times in protests that have the effect of preventing someone from speaking in peace. But someone posted an article the other day and it was about 150 protests on the left, and 75 on the right, in 5,300 colleges and universities, and only a small percentage of the students at those 225 were involved in those efforts. And if you've read any of the news accounts, the violent factions in those protests are nearly always outsiders, the Antifa types, not students.
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I'll partially concede this point as I'm not sure on those numbers but it did cost Berkeley like $650K in security costs for Ben Shapiro to speak there and there are many examples similar to that.

I also don't have a problem with protesting, say, someone like Kissinger or far right flame throwers who LOVE the protests because they feed right into the narrative. The line is crossed when the protests have the effect of shutting down speech instead of protesting ideas or that speaker in another location. I'm sure the vast majority on "the left" agree with me on that.
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We both agree here but where we don't seem to agree is that I think the shutting down of free speech is more prevalent than you think and it's a growing problem, not a shrinking one.
 
I have no interest in being influenced by a dumb cracker who is consumed with white guilt

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk
 
Fishking said:
Nice strawman. I never once talked about the Women's March. Nice try.
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I realize that, because you're ignoring the many to disparage the many for the actions of a tiny few. Millions march in 400 cities with no violence - doesn't merit even your consideration! That's the problem, the point.

Just like if I blamed the entire "right" for the actions of neo-Nazis, skinheads and other racist dirtbags, or conflated "the right" with mass murderers like the guy who shot up our local Unitarian Church.

Maxine Waters supported harassing people in public, Hillary Clinton said no more civility until they get power back, another Democrat...I'm not recalling her name right now but it was a Congresswoman who was specifically asked about these types of actions and she kept demurring when the questioning was asking to condemn it.
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Oh, OK, so no one you can name supported any violence at all. Got it, that's exactly what I figured. Also, this may come as a shock to you, but Maxine Waters does not in fact speak for the entire "the left" any more than Trump speaks for all you right wingers on every stupid statement that comes out of his mouth.

Trump, for his part, has actually repeatedly condoned (or pointedly not condemned) violence against protesters!

"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell ... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise," he said on Feb. 1, 2016.

At a Las Vegas rally later that month, he said security guards were too gentle with a protester. "He's walking out with big high-fives, smiling, laughing," Trump said. "I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you."

A similar situation unfolded at a rally that month in Warren, Michigan.

"Get him out," he said of a protester. "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it."
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I'll partially concede this point as I'm not sure on those numbers but it did cost Berkeley like $650K in security costs for Ben Shapiro to speak there and there are many examples similar to that.

We both agree here but where we don't seem to agree is that I think the shutting down of free speech is more prevalent than you think and it's a growing problem, not a shrinking one.
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I agree with that in part, especially on some campuses.

My problem and point is that "the left" that I interact with and read about and see just are NOT supportive of anything even close to violent protests of any kind. Further, where the violent clashes happen it's generally between a bunch of neo-Nazi types (aka fascists) and Antifa (antifascists) types who both come with clubs, and you CORRECTLY don't claim them as part of the mainstream "the right" but insist those they're fighting are representative of the mainstream "the left."

And you correctly don't claim Jim David Adkisson, who shot up the Knoxville church to kill as many liberals as possible, the foot soldiers since he couldn't get to the generals, but insist we claim the guy who shot at the Congressmen and that he represents "the left." So you're using one standard for 'the right' and a conveniently different one for 'the left.'
 
lurchadams said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...redesen-tennessee_us_5bbaa057e4b01470d0527eec



Poor Taylor. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. Get ready for her to be a punchline now for trump and every right-wing nut with access to the internet.

The good news is she'll probably be able to write quite a few tracks about the way she's going to get **** on!
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I actually agree. When she was not replying about politics, there were people who accuse her about being a neo-Nazi and racist. Now that she made a stand, people are still roasting her.
 
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