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Jeff Sessions could be kicked out of the Methodist church over border separations of migrant familie

Phys251 said:
:violin
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If I may, Phys251, are you a religious person and belong to a church or religious congregation of some form that you regularly attend? Would you feel that it would be proper for members of your religious community attempting to excommunicate you from your church over your political beliefs? Or made a condition of you remaining in good standing with the Church (and thus, God) to publicly renounce particular secular political beliefs that you held?
 
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Jeff needs to do his job. We could have someone in there doing great things.
 
Felis Leo said:
If I may, Phys251, are you a religious person and belong to a church or religious congregation of some form that you regularly attend? Would you feel that it would be proper for members of your religious community attempting to excommunicate you from your church over your political beliefs? Or made a condition of you remaining in good standing with the Church (and thus, God) to publicly renounce particular secular political beliefs that you held?
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I got out of religion years ago. Conservative Christians' repeated insistence on being some of the biggest antagonists of social justice was a key factor.
 
Phys251 said:
I got out of religion years ago. Conservative Christians' repeated insistence on being some of the biggest antagonists of social justice was a key factor.
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I figured as much. I myself am an atheist. However, I think one of the most dangerous things is to encourage sectarianism among and within religious communities. When people start telling other people that they need to be kicked out of a church that they have been members of and adherents to all their lives because their political stances do not match the political stances of other members ("God is a Republican!" vs. "No, God is clearly a Democrat!") you are playing with a fire that will only be put out with oceans of blood.

My mother came from a country where religion and politics are attached at the hip and there is no separation of church and state. I have no interest in encouraging the social fabric of our nation becoming warped like that, no matter how supposedly pure and moral the intentions of the people trying to push such an agenda are.
 
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Felis Leo said:
I figured as much. I myself am an atheist. However, I think one of the most dangerous things is to encourage sectarianism among and within religious communities. When people start telling other people that they need to be kicked out of a church that they have been members of and adherents to all their lives because their political stances do not match the political stances of other members ("God is a Republican!" vs. "No, God is clearly a Democrat!") you are playing with fire that cannot be put out. My mother came from a country where religion and politics are attached at the hip and there is no separation of church and state. I have no interest in allowing the social fabric of our nation becoming warped like that, no matter how supposedly pure and moral the intentions of the people trying to push such an agenda are.
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Hmmm.

I agree that sectarianism, taken to an extreme, is dangerous. We see it in Syria. In Iraq. We saw it in Ireland. And there are many, many more examples.

However, the threat of sectarianism is not an excuse to tolerate evil within an organization or religion. If somebody is found to be in gross violation of common-sense rules, then there will be penalties that could include expulsion. Their powers to do this are far less restricted than the powers of governments are. So the Methodist Church is well within their rights, and frankly, I see no problem with what they are considering doing to an absolutely deplorable member of theirs.
 
jimbo said:
318 reverends meddle in politics they best take a look at their non profit status certificate.
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They are not meddling in politics. They are exercising the rights as part of the larger congregations.
 
jimbo said:
318 reverends meddle in politics they best take a look at their non profit status certificate.
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What on Earth does this even mean? They aren't meddling in politics. They're voicing their frustration over Sessions' lack of humanity as a member of their church.
 
tres borrachos said:
What on Earth does this even mean? They aren't meddling in politics. They're voicing their frustration over Sessions' lack of humanity as a member of their church.
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“humanity” is a foreign and alien word to many posters on this forum.
 
tres borrachos said:
What on Earth does this even mean? They aren't meddling in politics. They're voicing their frustration over Sessions' lack of humanity as a member of their church.
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And I think they are wrong to do so in a manner that calls for a church-members excommunication. Just as members of your church would be wrong to gin up other members of the church against you to try and kick you and your family out of it for voting the wrong way or voicing the "religiously incorrect" political beliefs.

I think it is despicable and wicked to try and go after political figures by going through their church, and I do not think churches should allow themselves to be made political actors and saying, implicitly or explicitly, that God is on the side of the Democrats or Republicans.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Methodist church hits Sessions with complaint over family separation - Business Insider At least some on the religious right seem to get it.
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1) the Methodist church does not ex-communicate.
2) the Methodists, as a group, are pretty liberal; their members more likely of the religious-left.

3) the religious-right, to which you refer, have shown themselves corruptible much as the Roman Catholic church was corrupted during middle ages. They are happy to turn a blind eye to egregious sin as long as they get what they want. Though they ought to be ashamed of their hypocrisy, they have shown themselves to have no shame.

jimbo said:
318 reverends meddle in politics they best take a look at their non profit status certificate.
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One of the principal roles of a church in a society is to speak out on issues of morality. The Bible tells us that we are suppose to call out our brothers and sisters in sin.

https://www.christianity.com/church...u-know-when-to-correct-another-christian.html

It's about time someone does their job around here.
 
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Perotista said:
And here I thought reading the title of the thread that Trump was finally going to get rid of him. But if Trump fired him, I'd expect the Democrats to have fits like they did over Comey when Trump fired and up until the day Trump fired him, the democrats had wanted him fired also. I suppose that politics today.
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This member of the left does not want him fired. He was a bad choice for the job, but now that he has the job, he probably needs to stay, for now.

Trump is not in a position to fire Sessions for a number of reasons, including no appetite in Congress to replace him. That said, Trump may have just created to cover to fire Sessions by assigning the blame of this whole debacle on him.
 
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This isn't the first time, Donald Trump got Jeffie Boy in trouble- nor will it be the last.

Just to cut Jeff a little slack, he has 30 years of experience on the hill.

Therefore, Donnie Boy should be listening to Jeff Sessions instead of the other way around.

But when is ole Jeffie Boy going to stand up to Donnie Boy and remind him of that? I don't think it will happen!
 
Felis Leo said:
I figured as much. I myself am an atheist. However, I think one of the most dangerous things is to encourage sectarianism among and within religious communities. When people start telling other people that they need to be kicked out of a church that they have been members of and adherents to all their lives because their political stances do not match the political stances of other members ("God is a Republican!" vs. "No, God is clearly a Democrat!") you are playing with a fire that will only be put out with oceans of blood.

My mother came from a country where religion and politics are attached at the hip and there is no separation of church and state. I have no interest in encouraging the social fabric of our nation becoming warped like that, no matter how supposedly pure and moral the intentions of the people trying to push such an agenda are.
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I am also an atheist. I agree with what you are saying Giving up religion made me a much better person.
 
nota bene said:
It doesn't need to. The Catholic Church is crystal on its stance on elective abortion.
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Very true, but the entire Catholic Church did not condemn Pelosi as the above poster claimed, and his point is what I countered.
 
upsideguy said:
This member of the left does not want him fired. He was a bad choice for the job, but now that he has the job, he probably needs to stay, for now.

Trump is not in a position to fire Sessions for a number of reasons, including no appetite in Congress to replace him. That said, Trump may have just created to cover to fire Sessions by assigning the blame of this whole debacle on him.
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Any thing is possible in today's politics. Trump has been dissatisfied with Sessions from almost the get go. The only reason Sessions got the job is that he was the first Republican senator to endorse or come out for Trump. Since then its been down hill for Sessions. Heck, even a Democrat won his old senate seat, supposedly one of the most secured, safe Republican seats in the entire nation.

About the only thing I can be sure of these days in politics is if the Republicans are for something, the Democrats are against it and vice versa.
 
Felis Leo said:
I figured as much. I myself am an atheist. However, I think one of the most dangerous things is to encourage sectarianism among and within religious communities. When people start telling other people that they need to be kicked out of a church that they have been members of and adherents to all their lives because their political stances do not match the political stances of other members ("God is a Republican!" vs. "No, God is clearly a Democrat!") you are playing with a fire that will only be put out with oceans of blood.

My mother came from a country where religion and politics are attached at the hip and there is no separation of church and state. I have no interest in encouraging the social fabric of our nation becoming warped like that, no matter how supposedly pure and moral the intentions of the people trying to push such an agenda are.
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I would only expand the definition of religion here, and agree. I think a lot of folks on the left are so (naively) convinced that an anthropomorphized "History" is on their side, that riding roughshod over heretics now can't have bad consequences.
 
Felis Leo said:
Religious persecution, sanctimonious grandstanding and bigoted castigation is always wrong. Until it isn't.
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How is it religious persecution?
 
Felis Leo said:
I do not think it is wise and certainly not appropriate to attack one's political opponents by going through their church and ginning up their coreligionists and fellow members of their congregation against them on the basis of their political positions.
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This is not that. Jeff Sessions is in a unique position of power willfully using the Bible to justify his use of government force against brown people. He is not some average Joe sitting in the pews every Sunday.
 
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