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'The U.S. President Is Destroying the American World Order'

Exquisitor said:
Didn't the Iran deal leave some opportunity for them to get a bomb in ten years?

So I don't know if the President's move is prudent or biased against Obama.

Perhaps someone could illumine me with a balanced rather than biased explanation.
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In my opinion the benefit of the deal was bringing Iran into the fold and building relations again, thereby deescalating the tensions which in turn would reduce the rush to acquire nuclear weapons. While Iran is still the source of tensions in the Middle East, they are in support of the Shias in the region and done to counter act the western and Saudi support for Sunni muslims. I can't speak to how much of the decision to pull out of the deal was just bias against Obama; it's likely the lack of transparency (inspection of military sites) was the driving force along with a desire for regime change in Iran.
 
OscarLevant said:
But the more important point is that America's leadership and influence on the world stage is diminishing because of Trump pulling out of the Paris Accord, TPP, and now the Iran deal.
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No big deal.

Look. Trump isn't interested in playing the "world leader" game. Especially when it means getting into crappy deals and agreements like the last four Presidents have saddled us with. The world can deal with us on our terms or they can go do what they want. Their choice.
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...

If Europe thinks they'll prosper while allied to China, Russia and Iran...they are idiots.

China will control them economically. Russia will control their energy. Iran will continue to destabilize the Middle East...sending millions of refugees to Europe.

If they do this...Europe is screwed.
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Maybe so but Trump has left them little choice. But you will admit the big winner again is Putin. Make Putin Great Again is Trump's real goal. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
 
iguanaman said:
Maybe so but Trump has left them little choice. But you will admit the big winner again is Putin. Make Putin Great Again is Trump's real goal. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
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shrug...

The US isn't threatened by Putin.

In any case, Europe ALWAYS has a choice. But hey...if they'd rather put themselves at the mercy of Putin, so be it.
 
JANFU said:
Russia and China are also key players to a deal in NK. Should the US set them aside due to the Iran deal?
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No, but understand that Iran and NK are connected, if we work things right there can be synergy.
 
ElChupacabra said:
In my opinion the benefit of the deal was bringing Iran into the fold and building relations again, thereby deescalating the tensions which in turn would reduce the rush to acquire nuclear weapons. While Iran is still the source of tensions in the Middle East, they are in support of the Shias in the region and done to counter act the western and Saudi support for Sunni muslims. I can't speak to how much of the decision to pull out of the deal was just bias against Obama; it's likely the lack of transparency (inspection of military sites) was the driving force along with a desire for regime change in Iran.
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Thanks.

Why do they want to change the Regime? The Ayatollahs are just adorable how they hate and their website is much more attractive than Israel's who haven't come to grips with who they are and neither have the Iranians.

Well, they had some experience being in the fold, now they can think about which way they would rather have it.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No, but understand that Iran and NK are connected, if we work things right there can be synergy.
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Quite different- one has the other does not.
 
Mycroft said:
No big deal.

Look. Trump isn't interested in playing the "world leader" game. Especially when it means getting into crappy deals and agreements like the last four Presidents have saddled us with. The world can deal with us on our terms or they can go do what they want. Their choice.
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So right . It's Putin's turn to shine and Trump is getting out of his way with a vengeance. First in Syria where we abdicated all our interests and now by allying with the Saudi's over Europe on the Iran deal. He won't get no "crappy deals" because no one is interested in talking with him. They are talking with everyone but us. And in N. Korea Kim will get what he wants because Trump has no choice but take it or leave like a loser.
 
Exquisitor said:
Thanks.

Why do they want to change the Regime? The Ayatollahs are just adorable how they hate and their website is much more attractive than Israel's who haven't come to grips with who they are and neither have the Iranians.

Well, they had some experience being in the fold, now they can think about which way they would rather have it.
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Eliminating the current Islamic regime has been a Neo-Con agenda for quite a while. The general idea is to replace the hostile regime into one that is friendly to the US and its interests. History however has demonstrated that this is a bad idea. The current president of Iran (Rouhani) is a moderate by general standards; attempts to remove him will only embolden the hardliners who are chomping at the bit to not be as friendly to western nations.
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...

The US isn't threatened by Putin.

In any case, Europe ALWAYS has a choice. But hey...if they'd rather put themselves at the mercy of Putin, so be it.
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Putin may turn out to be a more reliable ally than Trump, if he can screw us in the deal. That is the aim, the weaker we look the stronger Russia looks in comparison. But Putin only has a few 1000 nuclear tipped missiles pointed at us and that makes him so very unthreatening? It is amazing how Trumpists always say that, yet N. Korea is so very threatening?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No, but understand that Iran and NK are connected, if we work things right there can be synergy.
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Yes they are connected thru Putin. He is buying N. Korea's coal and laundering it to Japan and S. Korea. The only synergy is that Putin has influence over both and he using that against us.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
From Der Speigel

'The U.S. President Is Destroying the American World Order'
​

DER SPIEGEL: Mr. Fischer, you were -- together with your French and British colleagues -- among the first to embark on negotiations with Iran on its nuclear program in 2003. The 2015 agreement was to some extent your legacy. How did Donald Trump's withdrawal from the Iran deal affect you?




Fischer: I don't take this personally, but I am very concerned about the disastrous consequences of Trump's decision. They will be much more dramatic than portrayed in most of the comments so far. The aim of the agreement was to prevent a second disaster after the Iraq War, namely a large-scale land war in Iran. After the Iraq War, the Iranians tried in vain to divide Europe and the United States. Donald Trump has now managed to do just that.


DER SPIEGEL: Are you afraid that there will now be a war against Iran?


Fischer: I can't imagine that Trump could want that. One of the reasons Trump came into power was the frustration over these unwinnable, endless wars.



DER SPIEGEL: His national security adviser John Bolton wrote ...


Fischer: Enough with Bolton!

COMMENT:-
An outside view is sometimes interesting.​
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Joschka Fischer, the Wassermelone.

ROTFLOL... who really gives a **** what the taxi driver says. He was part of one of the most absurd political parties in Western civilization, and teamed up in a coalition government with an anti-American... that Russia loving turd Schroeder.

The current crisis Joschka, is due to Obama falling down on the job and failing to get a Status of Forces agreement. And Obama not taking ISIS seriously...

Joschka, you recall how Steinmeier rushed to Iraq right after Bush left office??????????? He did it because Iraq was fairly stable and Steinmeier wanted German companies in on the profits to be made.

Then Obama ****ed up massively, and Merkel just as big with her invitation for Africa to move to Europe.

These clowns have watched the invasion to Spain and Italy for years... what did they do to prepare against it???

NOTHING!!!!!

The ungrateful Germans... freeloading on our military for decades, and then complaining about having to pay a measly 2%. Thank Trump for calling the freeloaders out.

As for Iran... Obama gave them 150 Billion, which funded terrorism.

The “deal” didn;t allow us to inspect their facilities. It was The Iraq Inspection Games all over again... but with a Nuke program.

It kicked the can down the road... and in 10-years, we could have ended up with the nightmare scenario of Iran with nukes.

Joschka is a typical Watermelon. A party that is little different from Die Linke Partei, except Joschka’s clowns have the green facade.
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
Part of the Iran Deal required Iran to hand over 95% percent of its nuclear materials over to international authorities
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Part of the Iran deal also said the IAEA could inspect ANY suspect site, before the link was dry Iran said no military installation.
 
iguanaman said:
Yes they are connected thru Putin. He is buying N. Korea's coal and laundering it to Japan and S. Korea. The only synergy is that Putin has influence over both and he using that against us.
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We are the ones who insisted on hostilities with Russia Post Trump, which we did after we stirred up trouble in Ukraine with no good reason, after we lied to Putin about Gaddaffi, after loads or rhetorical hostilities launched their way by Obama and others, after the foolish provocative expansion of NATO into their history zone of primary influence, after giving them really bad post CCCP advice after the fail of the Soviet System.

Now that Russia and China have teamed up this should concern you.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
We are the ones who insisted on hostilities with Russia Post Trump, which we did after we stirred up trouble in Ukraine with no good reason, after we lied to Putin about Gaddaffi, after loads or rhetorical hostilities launched their way by Obama and others, after the foolish provocative expansion of NATO into their history zone of primary influence, after giving them really bad post CCCP advice after the fail of the Soviet System.

Now that Russia and China have teamed up this should concern you.
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So being a "full-on" RT watching Putin apologist is part of the Trumpist doctrine now? I guess it is not surprising. I bet it wouldn't bother you that Putin and Trump might already be jointly governing in our Whitehouse? You do know why it is called "The Peoples House"? The people will not stand for murdering KGB scum like Putin in our house. Mark my words. He will pay for his outrageous assault on our most sacred of Rights.

China is not a Democratic Republic and Putin's propaganda tricks will not work on them.
 
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iguanaman said:
So being a Putin apologist is part of the Trumpist doctrine now? I guess it is not surprising. I bet it wouldn't bother you that Putin and Trump are already jointly governing in our Whitehouse. You do know why it is called "The Peoples House"? The people will not stand for murdering KGB scum like Putin in our house. Mark my words. He will pay for his outrageous assault on our most sacred of Rights.

China is not a Democratic Republic and Putin's propaganda tricks will not work on them.
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I am of the TTT, as such I speak truth FULL STOP.
 
The TTT, the Truth Tellers Tribe, those of us who ascribe to the school of thought that we owe both ourselves and as well our fellow travelers the truth, we cant imagine why we would do any different.... we sing loud and clear "THESE MODERN MORONS WHO CANT TELL THE TRUTH TO SAVE THEIR LIVES SURE DO SUCK!".

BE BETTER
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The one who was negotiating with Iran since 2003 is an insider not an outsider.

Trump is the outsider.
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And a stark raving idiot. Just like his minions. Drain the swamp my ass.
 
Top Cat said:
As a stark raving idiot. Just like his minions. Drain the swamp my ass.
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I am pretty sure that I have told you before that you never understood what Trump meant, but then you seem to understand damn little.

I am sorry to hear of recent events.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The TTT, the Truth Tellers Tribe, those of us who ascribe to the school of thought that we owe both ourselves and as well our fellow travelers the truth, we cant imagine why we would do any different.... we sing loud and clear "THESE MODERN MORONS WHO CANT TELL THE TRUTH TO SAVE THEIR LIVES SURE DO SUCK!".

BE BETTER
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Oh for ****'s sake. YOU HELP ELECT THE SINGLE BIGGEST LIAR EVER ELECTED TO THE OFFICE OF THE POTUS. Your hypocrisy is as thick as an egg fart in an elevator.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Truth Tellers Tribe
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giphy.gif
 
Top Cat said:
Oh for ****'s sake. YOU HELP ELECT THE SINGLE BIGGEST LIAR EVER ELECTED TO THE OFFICE OF THE POTUS. Your hypocrisy is as thick as an egg fart in an elevator.
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Trump is the most honest guy to come down the pike in a long while...somebody around here is sporting this quote from me in their sig.

You seem to pay no attention at all.......get better please before you look me up again....my time is valuable.

:bon_voyag
 
He's not destroying the American Empire, if anything he is reinforcing it and transforming it into something far more terrifying and evil.
 
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