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Devin Nunes Threatens to Impeach DOJ's Rod Rosenstein and FBI's Chris Wray

Mach said:
Devin Nunes Threatens to Impeach DOJ?s Rod Rosenstein and FBI?s Chris Wray





Trump renews attacks on Rosenstein to get to Mueller, in the wake of his buddy Cohen being under FBI investigation.
Nunes threatens to impeach the acting deputy AG Rosenstein because Nunes wants an underacted document to ( peddle conspiracy theories on Fox news.)

Is he just making partisan whiny baby noises like usual or will be help with the massacre?
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I'd suggest that the federal government was put in place at the will of, and for the benefit of "the people". To that end, when the people's representative to that government perceives wrongdoing on the part of the federal government it is their OBLIGATION to seek out the facts behind that perception. If the federal government refuses to accommodate the representative then it is acting as an enemy of the people.
 
holbritter said:
As if they are the only ones :roll:
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Doesn't matter if they are the only ones, it matter that they are one of them who are. Why would you send classified information to a know leak?
 
OpportunityCost said:
The FBI did the same?
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Did the same what? Requested document from another investigative agency to leak to support a political candidate? When?

You are making a transparent political argument about the legal, constitutional process of oversight.
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No, I'm making a real life argument about the hacks on the committee. The FBI has, clearly, over the years turned over numerous documents to various committees. The only reason this is an issue is because the Congress people are wanting to exploit it for political gain and the Justice Department is resisting.

They have the legal authority for what they are asking
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And they have a legal obligation to not reveal classified information.

you aren't even denying it
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Not at all. As I said, if the Committee hadn't exposed themselves as a bunch of hacks, they'd probably have what they want. If they hadn't shown themselves as a bunch of children not interested in any real investigation, I'd want the FBI to turn over what was requested.

But that's not what is happening here.
you are characterizing them because you disagree with them politically.
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Disagree with who politically? Every response I've given to you has been completely neutral.

I disagree with the actions they've taken and I disagree with their obvious reasons for requesting it. They are requesting this information for the obvious purpose of leaking the information. They shouldn't get that.

Its a terrible, emotional argument.
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It's the exact opposite of emotional. We have documented evidence of the Committee's use of leaking classified information for political gain. We know for a fact the FBI has turned over the document in question. What the Committee wants is to leak the currently redacted information in order to make a political argument, just as they've done numerous times before.

There is no honesty in this request and it is being made with the intention of releasing this information the Justice Department deems sensitive. It's not an emotional argument to say they should not get sensitive information just for the sake of illegally leaking it.
Maybe you could try a factual one
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My argument is factual. Your obsequiousness towards giving government any information they request seems rather peculiar, however. I have this sneaking suspicion if the roles of the Ds and Rs were reversed, you'd come around more to my way of thinking. Partisans usually do.

instead on why the original referral that started all this year long investigation shouldn't be revealed to the American people?
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Because it contains sensitive/classified information which is obviously still being used as part of an active investigation.
 
Praxas said:
Doesn't matter if they are the only ones, it matter that they are one of them who are. Why would you send classified information to a know leak?
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They don't have much choice. They could keep stalling though, as that threat is toothless.
 
Lutherf said:
I'd suggest that the federal government was put in place at the will of, and for the benefit of "the people". To that end, when the people's representative to that government perceives wrongdoing on the part of the federal government it is their OBLIGATION to seek out the facts behind that perception. If the federal government refuses to accommodate the representative then it is acting as an enemy of the people.
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What's unclear is whether the documents have been made available to the Gang of Eight. It appears at least some of what Nunes is demanding has been, because obviously some people on the committee reviewed the FISA applications for Page, and reported on parts of them in the Nunes memo.

It's also unclear to me why POTUS cannot just direct Wray or Rosenstein to release the information.

And the core problem is Nunes has proved himself to be a partisan hack, and his committee a leaking sieve. The only rational expectation here is the FBI/DoJ releases the highly classified documents to the full committee and they show up on Fox News a few days/weeks later. That's the problem with the Nunes memo - he didn't allow the Trump appointees to vet the memo until after the fact, and then released his crap work over the strong objections of the Trump appointees in DoJ. Well, gosh, so Nunes burned his credibility with the DoJ and is whining they're not releasing unredacted docs to the full committee. SHOCK! not....
 
Slyfox696 said:
Did the same what? Requested document from another investigative agency to leak to support a political candidate? When?
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Leaked selectively, which you know very well was my point. Your pick apart parsing game gets old quick, its incredibly disingenuous.

No, I'm making a real life argument about the hacks on the committee. The FBI has, clearly, over the years turned over numerous documents to various committees. The only reason this is an issue is because the Congress people are wanting to exploit it for political gain and the Justice Department is resisting.
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Which makes absolutely no difference. DC Is full of hacks on both sides, they still have to comply with legal oversight. DOJ has no legal authority to resist.

And they have a legal obligation to not reveal classified information.
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Except apparently when they want to.

Not at all. As I said, if the Committee hadn't exposed themselves as a bunch of hacks, they'd probably have what they want. If they hadn't shown themselves as a bunch of children not interested in any real investigation, I'd want the FBI to turn over what was requested.
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Irrelevant political argument remains irrelevant, elections have consequences.

But that's not what is happening here.
Disagree with who politically? Every response I've given to you has been completely neutral.
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BWAHAHAHAHA. You are making political judgments all over the place.

I disagree with the actions they've taken and I disagree with their obvious reasons for requesting it. They are requesting this information for the obvious purpose of leaking the information. They shouldn't get that.
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Still an irrelevant argument, they have a duty to obtain it. Look who suddenly dislikes transparency?

It's the exact opposite of emotional. We have documented evidence of the Committee's use of leaking classified information for political gain. We know for a fact the FBI has turned over the document in question. What the Committee wants is to leak the currently redacted information in order to make a political argument, just as they've done numerous times before.
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Characterizing people as hacks and such is an emotional argument. Do you believe they shouldn't get oversight materials they request?

There is no honesty in this request and it is being made with the intention of releasing this information the Justice Department deems sensitive. It's not an emotional argument to say they should not get sensitive information just for the sake of illegally leaking it.
My argument is factual. Your obsequiousness towards giving government any information they request seems rather peculiar, however. I have this sneaking suspicion if the roles of the Ds and Rs were reversed, you'd come around more to my way of thinking. Partisans usually do.
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There it is. Suddenly I'm partisan for wanting transparency from a constitutionally based authority. Check the mirror.

Because it contains sensitive/classified information which is obviously still being used as part of an active investigation.
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Might have a point if the FBI had not been selectively leaking all over the place.
 
Mach said:
Devin Nunes Threatens to Impeach DOJ?s Rod Rosenstein and FBI?s Chris Wray





Trump renews attacks on Rosenstein to get to Mueller, in the wake of his buddy Cohen being under FBI investigation.
Nunes threatens to impeach the acting deputy AG Rosenstein because Nunes wants an underacted document to ( peddle conspiracy theories on Fox news.)

Is he just making partisan whiny baby noises like usual or will be help with the massacre?
Click to expand...

Nunes should just back off. The DOJ and the FBI have made it clear that they MUST withhold information from Congress because that info is part of criminal investigations they are conducting. Let's face it...anything given to Congress will become public knowledge.

One would almost think Nunes deliberately wants to torpedo those investigations.
 
notquiteright said:
The DoJ and FBI are investigating the Trump campaign committee of which Nutty Nunny was a part of... can any conservative say conflict of interest as Nunny 'oversees' an investigation into that investigation???

Usually the Congressional committees defer to the Justice Dept and criminal investigations, Nutty Nunny has from the very beginning tried to cover for his former boss. That Nunny is still in charge shows how little the GOP run House cares about finding out the truth.

Nutty Nunny can threaten all he wants but he can impeach anyone. I'm gonna mix a lot of metaphors but here goes-

Ryan has his 30 pieces of silver, sees what that tax cut has set into motion when it comes to fiscal responsibility (libertarians and 'free market' wonks are so in love with think tank papers the real world doesn't factor in til too late) is disgusted by what his Party has done to Government, our position overseas, our nation and us as a people. Disillusioned by it all he is going to retire to his villa far from DC and fiddle up a good story about his time in the Swamp...

No impeachment, Nutty Nunny can run around all he wants... the DoJ has a job to do for the American People, not crack pot politicians... :peace
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Anyone that believes Nutty Nunny consists of rational discourse isn't worth taking seriously.
 
holbritter said:
They don't have much choice. They could keep stalling though, as that threat is toothless.
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That's the odd part - if it's Gang of Eight level material, my understanding is POTUS could simply direct the release of it to the Committees. There's no evidence he's done that, perhaps because it's still highly classified and the people around Trump are properly advising him doing so would be a mistake, given the House committee's record of leaking.
 
JasperL said:
That's the odd part - if it's Gang of Eight level material, my understanding is POTUS could simply direct the release of it to the Committees. There's no evidence he's done that, perhaps because it's still highly classified and the people around Trump are properly advising him doing so would be a mistake, given the House committee's record of leaking.
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True. Considering the leaks around the President, we might have heard that though.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Leaked selectively, which you know very well was my point. Your pick apart parsing game gets old quick, its incredibly disingenuous.

Which makes absolutely no difference. DC Is full of hacks on both sides, they still have to comply with legal oversight. DOJ has no legal authority to resist.
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Yes, they do, but that does not necessarily mean making unredacted highly classified documents fully available to all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees. That's why the Gang of Eight and highly secure viewing rooms exist - to protect those documents from public release.

And the problem with Nunes and his committee is the DoJ now led by Trump appointees aren't idiots - they can know with near certainty that releasing the documents to the House committee is roughly equivalent to giving the docs to Sean Hannity.

I'm also a bit unclear why Nunes isn't talking to Trump through the press. I'm aware of nothing that would prohibit Trump from just directing his subordinates to release the documents - he clearly has the authority to declare information Gang of Eight level, so should have the authority to declare it suitable for release. Why isn't the demand directed at Trump, or at least why isn't Trump included in his pleas?

My own guess is this is a typical PR stunt by Nunes. It appears the memo and the other documents have been viewed by the Gang of Eight, so they know what's in them, but it will be a nice show for the House to hold some Star Chamber impeachment proceedings that will go nowhere.
 
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JasperL said:
Yes, they do, but that does not necessarily mean making unredacted highly classified documents fully available to all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees. That's why the Gang of Eight and highly secure viewing rooms exist - to protect those documents from public release.

And the problem with Nunes and his committee is the DoJ now led by Trump appointees aren't idiots - they can know with near certainty that releasing the documents to the House committee is roughly equivalent to giving the docs to Sean Hannity.

I'm also a bit unclear why Nunes isn't talking to Trump through the press. I'm aware of nothing that would prohibit Trump from just directing his subordinates to release the documents - he clearly has the authority to declare information Gang of Eight level, so should have the authority to declare it suitable for release. Why isn't the demand directed at Trump, or at least why isn't Trump included in his pleas?

My own guess is this is a typical PR stunt by Nunes. It appears the memo and the other documents have been viewed by the Gang of Eight, so they know what's in them, but it will be a nice show for the House to hold some Star Chamber impeachment proceedings that will go nowhere.
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You want to pick apart their reasons, their loyalties, their party, everything but that fact they have a right to the document in question. Not to mention some transparency over the original referral that started this mess.
 
OpportunityCost said:
You want to pick apart their reasons, their loyalties, their party, everything but that fact they have a right to the document in question. Not to mention some transparency over the original referral that started this mess.
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I specifically addressed their "right" to the documents and you ignored it. I'll repeat it for you:

"Yes, they do, but that does not necessarily mean making unredacted highly classified documents fully available to all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees. That's why the Gang of Eight and highly secure viewing rooms exist - to protect those documents from public release."

If you want to actually have a discussion, how about responding to this comment as well - seems relevant:

"I'm also a bit unclear why Nunes isn't talking to Trump through the press. I'm aware of nothing that would prohibit Trump from just directing his subordinates to release the documents - he clearly has the authority to declare information Gang of Eight level, so should have the authority to declare it suitable for release. Why isn't the demand directed at Trump, or at least why isn't Trump included in his pleas?"

Both hit on the "right" of the full committee to the documents.
 
JasperL said:
I specifically addressed their "right" to the documents and you ignored it. I'll repeat it for you:

"Yes, they do, but that does not necessarily mean making unredacted highly classified documents fully available to all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees. That's why the Gang of Eight and highly secure viewing rooms exist - to protect those documents from public release."
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So you don't believe that there should be transparency. I disagree.
 
OpportunityCost said:
So you don't believe that there should be transparency. I disagree.
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Your comment was about the "right" of the committee to get highly classified documents. When a counter argument is proposed, you first ignored it then moved the goal posts to a subjective argument about "transparency."

If you don't want your assertions challenged, why are you presenting them on a debate forum?
 
I don't like Nunes...I can't respond rationally...I'd like to kick him in the face
 
JasperL said:
Your comment was about the "right" of the committee to get highly classified documents. When a counter argument is proposed, you first ignored it then moved the goal posts to a subjective argument about "transparency."

If you don't want your assertions challenged, why are you presenting them on a debate forum?
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Part of oversight is about transparency. The two are inextricably linked.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Part of oversight is about transparency. The two are inextricably linked.
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OK, so I gather you're conceding there is no "right" for the full committee to have unredacted access to highly classified documents. You'd just prefer that they do. Got it. :roll:

Also:

"I'm also a bit unclear why Nunes isn't talking to Trump through the press. I'm aware of nothing that would prohibit Trump from just directing his subordinates to release the documents - he clearly has the authority to declare information Gang of Eight level, so should have the authority to declare it suitable for release. Why isn't the demand directed at Trump, or at least why isn't Trump included in his pleas?"
 
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