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Debate US Style: NRA Official Calls for Killing Supporters of Gun Regulation

Tigerace117 said:
Wayne LaPierre presumably has a brain and isn’t a puppet of John Dingell. He is capable of making his own choices. He chose to promote an idiotic point of view.

Meanwhile, those who bought into that rhetoric blew hundreds of people to smithereens.
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ATF abuses are well known.
 
TurtleDude said:
ATF abuses are well known.
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The 'militia movement" is nothing more than a racist, anti Semitic group which justifies and commits terrorist attacks.

As I've said before.....being a kid doesn't give you the right to try and murder law enforcement. The other big incident, Waco, shows Koresh and his cultists to be nothing more than nasty thugs.

Of course, that's leaving out the fact that if people just followed the law, there never would have been any standoffs in the first place.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The 'militia movement" is nothing more than a racist, anti Semitic group which justifies and commits terrorist attacks.

As I've said before.....being a kid doesn't give you the right to try and murder law enforcement. The other big incident, Waco, shows Koresh and his cultists to be nothing more than nasty thugs.

Of course, that's leaving out the fact that if people just followed the law, there never would have been any standoffs in the first place.
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The ATF raid on Koresh was unneeded and was a photo op for an agency that was facing budget cuts. The ATF had no jurisdiction over the claims of child abuse. two of the ATF agents were killed by rather rare armor defeating rounds that only government agents had. The ATF is an agency that we shouldn't have in the first place
 
TurtleDude said:
The ATF raid on Koresh was unneeded and was a photo op for an agency that was facing budget cuts. The ATF had no jurisdiction over the claims of child abuse. two of the ATF agents were killed by rather rare armor defeating rounds that only government agents had. The ATF is an agency that we shouldn't have in the first place
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While I'm not surprised you don't like an agency whose purpose revolves around the regulation of firearms, the fact of the matter is that the Branch Davidians were stockpiling weapons and they did respond to a legal search with lethal force. Not to mention, of course, the wide variety of other crimes including sexual abuse going on in the compound as well as Koresh's cultists' desire to get into large scale drug trafficking--- oh, and the fact that they started the fire in their compound as well.
 
Tigerace117 said:
While I'm not surprised you don't like an agency whose purpose revolves around the regulation of firearms, the fact of the matter is that the Branch Davidians were stockpiling weapons and they did respond to a legal search with lethal force. Not to mention, of course, the wide variety of other crimes including sexual abuse going on in the compound as well as Koresh's cultists' desire to get into large scale drug trafficking--- oh, and the fact that they started the fire in their compound as well.
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you appear ignorant of the facts surrounding that. While Howell/Koresh was a nut he had always cooperated with the local law enforcement
 
Spartacus FPV said:
Because we don't play the "disavow or else"game nor do we eat our own; That's what leftists do.

We do not believe in compelled speech nor do we accept undue guilt or blame, we place that squarely on the perpetrator.

In short, I'm not responsible for what someone else says, nor am I required to condemn anyone, nor will I be compelled to engage in any speech of any kind for any reason.

Also, silence does not mean condoning/approval, to think so is rather rapey of you.
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Forget all the stupid back and forth accusations about censorship or compelled speech, that's the fringe Left talking.
You ought to know what mainstream people think when a guy like Uncle Ted starts talking that crap.

If you don't, here it is:

Simply put, if you're dumb enough to telegraph your intentions, you just gave away the store.
Ted Nugent better shut his mouth. Only a dumb coward or a ***** "sells woof tickets".
And celebrities who sell woof tickets are even dumber.
I'm not taking sides in the Biggie and Tupac case, but clearly someone had a beef with both of them and they were laying in wait, and they took their shot, and that's why Biggie and Tupac aren't here anymore.
Ted is clearly dumber than both of them.
I wouldn't do it but I bet there are people who would.
Simply put, only an idiot would run their mouth saying that sort of thing.

And I'm out.
 
Grand Mal said:
What was that about 'leftists' again? As a group, I mean, what was it they do?
Somehow, I'm sure, there's no moral failure when the group being blamed is 'leftists'.
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What I said about leftists was they engage in "disavow or else face deplatforming", I stated no moral failure about the group, that is a tactical one. To judge a group based on the immoral actions of an individual is what I condemned Cardinal for. The two are very different.

As to who are leftists, I draw a distinction between liberals and the progressive left. Liberals still believe in free speech.
 
TurtleDude said:
you appear ignorant of the facts surrounding that. While Howell/Koresh was a nut he had always cooperated with the local law enforcement
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Except for when he responded to a legal search warrant by starting up a massive standoff and shooting it out with the ATF.

But hey, other than that, he was just a "cooperative" nutjob accumulating guns and sexual abuse cases.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Except for when he responded to a legal search warrant by starting up a massive standoff and shooting it out with the ATF.

But hey, other than that, he was just a "cooperative" nutjob accumulating guns and sexual abuse cases.
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the search warrant had massive problems and was based on bogus grounds, None of the Davidians were charged with murdering the dead agents. I realize to the fascists and those with fascist cravings, that federal agents can do no wrong but the ATF raid on whackos is a serious case of governmental abuse. Accumulating guns is not a crime except to the anti gun extremists
 
Just a few programs that the NRA sponsers.


Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program

The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® program teaches children in pre-K through third grade four important steps to take if they find a gun. These steps are presented by the program's mascot, Eddie Eagle, in an easy-to-remember format consisting of the following simple rules: STOP! Don’t touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.

Eddie Eagle Treehouse

The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® program teaches children in pre-K through third grade four important steps to take if they find a gun. These steps are presented by the program's mascot, Eddie Eagle, in an easy-to-remember format consisting of the following simple rules: STOP! Don’t touch. Run Away. Tell a Grown-up.


National School Shield

The National School Shield program is committed to addressing the many facets of school security, including best practices in security infrastructure, technology, personnel, training, and policy.



Firearm Training

From beginner to developing competitor, the NRA Training Department develops safe, ethical, responsible shooters through a network of more than 125,000 instructors and range safety officers and coaches. NRA Training Counselors recruit and train instructors to teach NRA's basic firearm courses. NRA Coaches, in turn, develop competitors at the club, high school, collegiate and national levels.



NRA Online Training

Our web-based courses are the best and most convenient way for you to learn basic firearms safety, shooting techniques, personal defense strategies, or fulfill the requirements for obtaining a concealed carry permit in your state. Get started today!



Become An NRA Instructor

NRA Certified Instructors provide an invaluable service in their communities by training hundreds of thousands of individuals annually. As more Americans choose to exercise their right to own a firearm, so too grows the need for these courses.


NRA Gun Safety Rules

Whether you’re a parent in search of information about firearm safety in the home, a first-time gun owner, or an old pro looking to brush up on your firearm handling skills, the NRA is here to keep you and your family safe. Explore NRA’s fundamental rules of gun safety, as well as information how to safely store a gun and good cleaning practices.



NRA Carry Guard

NRA Carry Guard aims to be everything law-abiding gun owners need to carry firearms with confidence and competence. Our training program, featuring both in-person classes as well as a vast online video library, was developed by an expert team of military and law enforcement veterans and focuses on the unique legal, mental and physical circumstances you must be prepared to face before and after pulling the trigger.


https://explore.nra.org/interests/safety-and-education/
 
Well someone should probably put the guy in prison if hes making terrorist threats.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://sputniknews.com/art_living/201804081063348171-nra-says-kill-them-if-they-disagree/

Following increased calls for common-sense gun regulation in the US, an official with the NRA has called for the killing of those who disagree with the group’s platform.

A board member for the National Rifle Association (NRA), speaking on the record, publicly recommended that US citizens who disagree with the policies of his lobbying organization be shot and killed.
=========================================
NRA board member & draft dodger Ted Nugent was on Alex Jones' radio show & said "keep your gun handy, and every time you see one, you shoot one," in reference to the growing number of Americans who disagree with the lobbying group's policy.
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Sputnik news? LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! How on Earth were you able to post that with a straight face?
 
TurtleDude said:
the search warrant had massive problems and was based on bogus grounds, None of the Davidians were charged with murdering the dead agents. I realize to the fascists and those with fascist cravings, that federal agents can do no wrong but the ATF raid on whackos is a serious case of governmental abuse. Accumulating guns is not a crime except to the anti gun extremists
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Again, the search warrant was totally legal and you unsupportedly declaring that the grounds were "bogus" because you don't like the ATF does not change that.

None of the Davidians were charged because because people felt sorry for them because the assholes got so many of their own people killed.

I realize to gun obsessives and people who don't live in the real world, hatred of the government is sufficient justification to commit whatever crimes you so choose, but that's not the real world.

Oh, so the government of the United States is "anti gun extremists" now?

Why am I not surprised you are a Koresh fanboy.
 
Spartacus FPV said:
How is it crap? How isn't he law abiding? What law has he broken? The only moral failure here is yours, your blaming a group for the action of an individual.
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Identity politics is the bread and butter of the left along with paintbrushes.
they keep a warehouse full of them because they go through so many.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Again, the search warrant was totally legal and you unsupportedly declaring that the grounds were "bogus" because you don't like the ATF does not change that.

None of the Davidians were charged because because people felt sorry for them because the assholes got so many of their own people killed.

I realize to gun obsessives and people who don't live in the real world, hatred of the government is sufficient justification to commit whatever crimes you so choose, but that's not the real world.

Oh, so the government of the United States is "anti gun extremists" now?

Why am I not surprised you are a Koresh fanboy.
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THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT

actually it wasn't legal. THe warrent was filled out incorrectly with bogus information.
even the preliminary investigation showed that they had done nothing illegal.

your post does nothing to address what he says which is typical.
 
ludin said:
THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT

actually it wasn't legal. THe warrent was filled out incorrectly with bogus information.
even the preliminary investigation showed that they had done nothing illegal.

your post does nothing to address what he says which is typical.
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Hmm.....unsurprisingly, you can't even be bothered to find a remotely unbiased source. Typical.

On a related note, it's always amusing to me how every nut thinks throwing "freedom" or "independence" or "America" in their title will make them credible.

Here's the actual fact of the situation

"Using the affidavit filed by Aguilera that alleged that the Davidians had violated federal law, the ATF obtained search and arrest warrants for Koresh and specific followers on weapons charges, citing the many firearms they had accumulated.[28][29] The search warrant commanded a search "on or before February 28, 1993", in the daytime between 6:00 am and 10:00 pm. ATF made a claim that Koresh was possibly operating a methamphetamine lab, to establish a drug nexus and obtain military assets under the War on Drugs. Although the ATF's investigation "focused on firearm violations, not on illegal drugs", the ATF requested assistance from the DEA and the DOD "citing a drug connection" based on 1) a recent delivery to the compound of "chemicals, instruments, and glassware", 2) a written testimony from a former compound's resident, alleging "Howell had told him that drug trafficking was a desirable way to raise money", 3) several current residents who "had prior drug involvement", 4) two former residents who were incarcerated for drug-trafficking crimes, and 5) National Guard overflights' thermal images showing a "hot spot inside the compound, possibly indicating a methamphetamine laboratory".[30] Although the original request for assistance was initially approved, the commander of the Special Forces detachment questioned the request, and the ATF obtained only a training site at Fort Hood, Texas, from February 25 to February 27 with safety inspections for the training lanes, and was given only medical and communications training and equipment.[31]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege#Prelude

But by all means, cling to the fantasy that the scumbag cultists were in their "rights" to try to murder law enforcement.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Again, the search warrant was totally legal and you unsupportedly declaring that the grounds were "bogus" because you don't like the ATF does not change that.

None of the Davidians were charged because because people felt sorry for them because the assholes got so many of their own people killed.

I realize to gun obsessives and people who don't live in the real world, hatred of the government is sufficient justification to commit whatever crimes you so choose, but that's not the real world.

Oh, so the government of the United States is "anti gun extremists" now?

Why am I not surprised you are a Koresh fanboy.
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you're demonstrating how truly ignorant you are of the entire debacle.
 
ludin said:
THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT

actually it wasn't legal. THe warrent was filled out incorrectly with bogus information.
even the preliminary investigation showed that they had done nothing illegal.

your post does nothing to address what he says which is typical.
Click to expand...

sadly some people have fascist cravings and love the sound of jackboots stomping on liberty. The Davidians were nuts but not ones that did anything that required a gestapo like raid

you cite wiki-I cite one of the leading constitutional scholars

THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT

In any case, the BATF's public relations officer was stationed in Waco on the day of the raid ready to issue a press release announcing the raid's success. [19] A much-publicized raid, resulting in the seizure of hundreds of guns and dozens of "cultists" might reasonably be expected to improve the fortunes of BATF Director, Stephen Higgins, who was scheduled to testify before the U.S. Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government on March 10, 1993. Investigative reporter Carol Vinzant wrote:
*5 In the jargon of at least one ATF office, the Waco raid was what is known as a ZBO ("Zee Big One"), a press-drawing stunt that when shown to Congress at budget time justifies more funding. One of the largest deployments in bureau history, the attack on the Branch Davidians compound was, in the eyes of some of the agents, the ultimate ZBO. [20]

60 Minutes rebroadcast the BATF segment a few months later. Host Mike Wallace opined that almost all the agents he talked to said that they believe the initial attack on that cult in Waco was a publicity stunt--the main goal of which was to improve ATF's tarnished image. [21] The codeword for the beginning of the BATF raid was "showtime." [22]
 
TurtleDude said:
sadly some people have fascist cravings and love the sound of jackboots stomping on liberty. The Davidians were nuts but not ones that did anything that required a gestapo like raid

you cite wiki-I cite one of the leading constitutional scholars

THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT

In any case, the BATF's public relations officer was stationed in Waco on the day of the raid ready to issue a press release announcing the raid's success. [19] A much-publicized raid, resulting in the seizure of hundreds of guns and dozens of "cultists" might reasonably be expected to improve the fortunes of BATF Director, Stephen Higgins, who was scheduled to testify before the U.S. Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government on March 10, 1993. Investigative reporter Carol Vinzant wrote:
*5 In the jargon of at least one ATF office, the Waco raid was what is known as a ZBO ("Zee Big One"), a press-drawing stunt that when shown to Congress at budget time justifies more funding. One of the largest deployments in bureau history, the attack on the Branch Davidians compound was, in the eyes of some of the agents, the ultimate ZBO. [20]

60 Minutes rebroadcast the BATF segment a few months later. Host Mike Wallace opined that almost all the agents he talked to said that they believe the initial attack on that cult in Waco was a publicity stunt--the main goal of which was to improve ATF's tarnished image. [21] The codeword for the beginning of the BATF raid was "showtime." [22]
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I cited the same article lol
 
Tigerace117 said:
Hmm.....unsurprisingly, you can't even be bothered to find a remotely unbiased source. Typical.

On a related note, it's always amusing to me how every nut thinks throwing "freedom" or "independence" or "America" in their title will make them credible.

Here's the actual fact of the situation

"Using the affidavit filed by Aguilera that alleged that the Davidians had violated federal law, the ATF obtained search and arrest warrants for Koresh and specific followers on weapons charges, citing the many firearms they had accumulated.[28][29] The search warrant commanded a search "on or before February 28, 1993", in the daytime between 6:00 am and 10:00 pm. ATF made a claim that Koresh was possibly operating a methamphetamine lab, to establish a drug nexus and obtain military assets under the War on Drugs. Although the ATF's investigation "focused on firearm violations, not on illegal drugs", the ATF requested assistance from the DEA and the DOD "citing a drug connection" based on 1) a recent delivery to the compound of "chemicals, instruments, and glassware", 2) a written testimony from a former compound's resident, alleging "Howell had told him that drug trafficking was a desirable way to raise money", 3) several current residents who "had prior drug involvement", 4) two former residents who were incarcerated for drug-trafficking crimes, and 5) National Guard overflights' thermal images showing a "hot spot inside the compound, possibly indicating a methamphetamine laboratory".[30] Although the original request for assistance was initially approved, the commander of the Special Forces detachment questioned the request, and the ATF obtained only a training site at Fort Hood, Texas, from February 25 to February 27 with safety inspections for the training lanes, and was given only medical and communications training and equipment.[31]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege#Prelude

But by all means, cling to the fantasy that the scumbag cultists were in their "rights" to try to murder law enforcement.
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Constitutional lawyer > wiki.
 
TurtleDude said:
you're demonstrating how truly ignorant you are of the entire debacle.
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You are demonstrating, once again, that you think hatred of a government agency supersedes facts. It does not.
 
ludin said:
Constitutional lawyer > wiki.
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Wiki> obsessive partisan.

There's lot of people who claim to be "constitutional lawyers". That doesn't inherently allow them to change reality just because they have a delusion that the founders would have approved or not approved of something.
 
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