Polish Politician: Ex-Spy Skripal Was 'Highly Likely' Poisoned by CIA

Thoreau72 said:

No sir, I have no opinion on Russian behavior over the decades. That you want to insert words into my mouth in that regard quickly suggests the desperation of your position here.

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OK, so your statement "That is a completely false statement you make." is not based on any knowledge or opinion on the actual facts. Fair enough - this is the Internet after all.

Thoreau72 said:

I wander off topic as much as the other guy, but I'm trying to stay on topic here and discuss facts only.

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The original statement that you claimed was completely false was that the Russians had a long history of assassinating dissidents and defectors. That is what is known as an "assertion of fact" and it is one that the historical record bears out.

Thoreau72 said:

The facts are that poisoning by organophosphates are almost always very quickly fatal unless an antidote is quickly administered. Nobody administered the victims atropine or any other antidote, at least that has not been mentioned in the media, yet today as we speak the daughter is walking and talking and says her father is improving.

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All facts that are so easily verifiable that it would be churlish of me to ask you to do so.

Thoreau72 said:

The facts are the story has changed in many ways, and the British government has offered no evidence at all to support its changing story. The facts are that people poisoned that way do not go strolling through the park for hours before feeling the effects, yet Theresa May wants me to believe that the 2 victims did just that, depending on which version of the story one accepts.

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A reasonable position.

Thoreau72 said:

You might be that gullible, but I'm not. Theresa cannot prove her case, and neither can you.

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Ms. May is not even attempting to "prove her case" now that the UK government's own scientists have announced that it cannot be done. They are simply relying on what all the wing-nut conspiracy theorists routinely use and that is "Proof by Repetition" and "Validation by Citing a Secondary Source that Cites the Source Seeking Validation". Oh yes, and also by using the "Is too, is TOO, IS TOO, IS TOO, IS TOO" method of proof.

How can this be? As the Russian government has asked, in its campaign to discredit British assertions that Russia was behind the attack, why didn’t the Skripals collapse immediately if they were poisoned by a powerful nerve agent? If they came into contact with the agent at their doorstep, how did they have the ability to first go to a pub and a restaurant before they succumbed? On March 4, the Skripals were found on a park bench. She was comatose; he was awake but disoriented. Medical experts attributed their recovery to the readily available treatments and antidotes they probably received at the hospital. “Poisoning does not necessarily result in death,” said Michelle Carlin, a senior lecturer in forensic and analytical chemistry at Northumbria University. “If treated quickly and promptly enough, it is possible to recover from poisoning of many compounds.”
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She said it was difficult to discern why Yulia Skripal recovered faster than her father. “We don’t know if that’s because she had less administered, or it took longer to have an effect or because she’s younger or healthier — there’s too many factors to take into account,” she said. Toxicologists and medical forensic specialists said nerve agents are most dangerous in the first days after an attack, but given that the Skripals pulled through that, it wasn’t surprising that their condition was improving.
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A director of a British military laboratory said this week that the nerve agent was definitively from the Novichok class, a type designed and manufactured by the former Soviet Union and Russia. The lab, however, could not definitely say where this batch was manufactured. British police investigators say the highest residual concentration of the nerve agent was found at Sergei Skripal’s front door in the quiet town of Salisbury, down the road from the Stonehenge ruins.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.9e3a0c53f7a1

I guess the hospital, the experts, and the reporter who wrote the article must all be in on the conspiracy to frame Russia, too.

:lamo




Perhaps, some random guy on the internet who was long ago won over by Alex Jones' swill is not exactly the most reliable of sources when it comes to pronouncing what must and must not be true regarding nerve agents.......

Mr Person said:

Perhaps, some random guy on the internet who was long ago won over by Alex Jones' swill is not exactly the most reliable of sources when it comes to pronouncing what must and must not be true regarding nerve agents.......

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What we have is a classic case of "absence of evidence".

"Absence of evidence" is neither "evidence of absence" nor "proof of presence".

What "absence of evidence" IS, is the fertilizer which helps conspiracy theories to grow.

TU Curmudgeon said:

OK, so your statement "That is a completely false statement you make." is not based on any knowledge or opinion on the actual facts. Fair enough - this is the Internet after all.



The original statement that you claimed was completely false was that the Russians had a long history of assassinating dissidents and defectors. That is what is known as an "assertion of fact" and it is one that the historical record bears out.



All facts that are so easily verifiable that it would be churlish of me to ask you to do so.



A reasonable position.



Ms. May is not even attempting to "prove her case" now that the UK government's own scientists have announced that it cannot be done. They are simply relying on what all the wing-nut conspiracy theorists routinely use and that is "Proof by Repetition" and "Validation by Citing a Secondary Source that Cites the Source Seeking Validation". Oh yes, and also by using the "Is too, is TOO, IS TOO, IS TOO, IS TOO" method of proof.

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Theresa and anybody else has an obligation to be able to prove her claims. Whether in a court of law or the court of public opinion, allegations must be proved. She has failed because Russia didn't do it. She is the leader of a false flag operation, and anybody with an open mind and minimal curiosity index knows this.

Janusz Korwin-Mikke is a Eurosceptic and a polygamist. I wouldn't put much faith in what he says.

Thoreau72 said:

Theresa and anybody else has an obligation to be able to prove her claims.

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Yep.

Thoreau72 said:

Whether in a court of law or the court of public opinion, allegations must be proved.

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SIR! You strike at the very heart of American Internet Political Discourse.

Thoreau72 said:

She has failed because Russia didn't do it.

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I'll buy "She has failed because it is impossible to actually prove who actually did it."

Thoreau72 said:

She is the leader of a false flag operation, ...

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If that is an "assertion of fact" than it is incumbent upon you to provide actual, verifiable, evidence to support it. Does "Whether in a court of law or the court of public opinion, allegations must be proved." sound vaguely familiar?

If that is an "opinion" then you are entitled to it.

Thoreau72 said:

... and anybody with an open mind and minimal curiosity index knows this.

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I don't subscribe to the "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong and that is a fact because it is obvious that only those people who are wrong disagree with me." line of "logic".

It is just as possible that Ms. May was the target of someone else's "false flag" attack as it is that the government of the UK carried it out, and it is also possible that the government of the RF did actually carry out the attack.

I'll repeat my earlier


and leave it at that.

Rogue Valley said:

Janusz Korwin-Mikke is a Eurosceptic ...

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Along with that he is a "right-wing Libertarian"

Rogue Valley said:

... and a polygamist.

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The term that you are actually looking for is "serial philandering kook".

Rogue Valley said:

I wouldn't put much faith in what he says.

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As if him taking the position that Adolf Hitler wasn't aware of "The Holocaust" and that "the attitudes of men are passed to women by way of the semen" wasn't enough to cause anyone hearing anything he says to make sure that there was some actual evidence to support the statement before passing it along to anyone else.