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Forget Mexico, Trump Can’t Even Get Congress To Pay For His Wall

Rogue Valley said:
The Democrats had offered Trump a proposal -- complete Border Wall funding in exchange for comprehensive DACA legislation. Trump said No.

Now he gets $1.6 billion for The Wall rather than the $25 billion he could have had. The Art Of The Deal. :lamo
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Oh, he gets more.

Ending DACA is tied up in multiple suits that quite credibly allege that rescision of the memo that actually implemented DACA (in light of the EO) was done in violation of the ACA, which means this will easily take 1-3 years. He basically amplified criticisms from one side of the middle while dropping a central campaign theme/promise - one of the only things that was ever concrete.


I mean, he gets less....
 
Makes empty veto threat, caves, gets nothing. This is the Great Negotiator?
 
JacksinPA said:
A wall worked fairly well for the East Germans & now the Israelis.
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And what a wonderful legacy.

- The Berlin Wall was more of an ideological statement and since it went through four evolutionary phases over the decades, it did not work out as fairly well as people think.

- The Israeli West Bank Barrier is claimed by Israel to be responsible for reducing suicide attacks, though it is more likely, since attacks persist, the decline in 2005 is probably due to increased pursuing of Palestinian militants by the Israeli army and intelligence organizations.

But what we really have here is an ideological wall constructed by the Soviet Union to reduce brain drain to the West; and an Israeli wall meant as a border crossing to defend against actual terrorism. In the meantime, we whine and whine about Mexicans picking our grapes and tomatoes and other jobs that Americans don't want to do. Our ideological wall has no rationality to it.
 
That's also because Republicans actually don't like Trump either. The only reason they chose Trump as their candidate is because Trump would've gone independent and the Republican Party didn't want that to happen.
 
americanwoman said:
The border between the US and Mexico is 1,954 miles long. Hungary's border wall is a couple hundred miles long and cost about 880 million dollars.

It's really not comparable.
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Why not?

How long is the Great Wall of China?
 
Monte said:
Why not?

How long is the Great Wall of China?
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The GWC is not really comparable either. Look at the materials used and how long it took to build it.

The cartels have a lot of money and wouldn't mind investing a really small portion of it to keep their product flowing over here and the money and guns flowing back.

The simple and most cost effective option would be to start enforcing current laws and get to the root of our immigration and drug problems and work from there up.
 
americanwoman said:
The GWC is not really comparable either. Look at the materials used and how long it took to build it.

The cartels have a lot of money and wouldn't mind investing a really small portion of it to keep their product flowing over here and the money and guns flowing back.

The simple and most cost effective option would be to start enforcing current laws and get to the root of our immigration and drug problems and work from there up.
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Materials used is not relevant. And, how long it will take isn't very relevant either. It will be much faster with modern technology.
Your cartel sentence supports my argument that a wall is needed. Lets make it as difficult as possible for drugs to come across.
I agree with your last sentence in that we should enforce current laws. However, we see how that has worked in the past, not very well.
Walls cannot be bribed.

A quick search of "illegal immigration costs to the US" yields low-end estimates of over $100 billion per year. If we have less illegal immigrants coming across the border due to a wall, these costs will start to become less and less. The illegal immigrants are still in Mexico. Mexico pays for their welfare. In a roundabout way, this is how Mexico will pay for the wall. Just like President Trump said.
 
Monte said:
Materials used is not relevant. And, how long it will take isn't very relevant either. It will be much faster with modern technology.
Your cartel sentence supports my argument that a wall is needed. Lets make it as difficult as possible for drugs to come across.
I agree with your last sentence in that we should enforce current laws. However, we see how that has worked in the past, not very well.
Walls cannot be bribed.

A quick search of "illegal immigration costs to the US" yields low-end estimates of over $100 billion per year. If we have less illegal immigrants coming across the border due to a wall, these costs will start to become less and less. The illegal immigrants are still in Mexico. Mexico pays for their welfare. In a roundabout way, this is how Mexico will pay for the wall. Just like President Trump said.
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I think with a wall, it would increase the bribed. There would need to be gaps in the wall for legal border crossing and that might actually make bribery increase. Plus increase turf wars and increase violence on both sides.

And we're not even bringing into the equation all the property rights of the people living on the border. I don't think they should have to give up their property to the government if they don't want to.
 
JacksinPA said:
A wall worked fairly well for the East Germans & now the Israelis.
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Once again, sacrifice better because it's not perfect... If a wall built strategically in the right places reduced the illegal immigration of violent criminals by 30% (primarily by allowing the BP to focus on the areas where boots on the ground are needed) would you support it??
 
MSgt said:
And what a wonderful legacy.

- The Berlin Wall was more of an ideological statement and since it went through four evolutionary phases over the decades, it did not work out as fairly well as people think.

- The Israeli West Bank Barrier is claimed by Israel to be responsible for reducing suicide attacks, though it is more likely, since attacks persist, the decline in 2005 is probably due to increased pursuing of Palestinian militants by the Israeli army and intelligence organizations.

But what we really have here is an ideological wall constructed by the Soviet Union to reduce brain drain to the West; and an Israeli wall meant as a border crossing to defend against actual terrorism. In the meantime, we whine and whine about Mexicans picking our grapes and tomatoes and other jobs that Americans don't want to do. Our ideological wall has no rationality to it.
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So is the argument that because we can't stop 100%, we shouldn't stop any?? We have a broken immigration system that keeps out the people we want in and allows in the people don't want in. But any attempts at fixing get met with LIBERAL opposition. Go to a bonded immigration system where the bonds are based on the demand for the skill sets the immigrants have. If we need lots of asparagus pickers, then asparagus pickers get a low bond, if we don't need a lot of celery pickers, then celery pickers get a high bond. It's self-adjusting system that encourages immigration that provides for the immigrant labor that is needed, while protecting jobs where the immigrant labor isn't needed.
 
americanwoman said:
I think with a wall, it would increase the bribed. There would need to be gaps in the wall for legal border crossing and that might actually make bribery increase. Plus increase turf wars and increase violence on both sides.

And we're not even bringing into the equation all the property rights of the people living on the border. I don't think they should have to give up their property to the government if they don't want to.
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Those same gaps exist now for legal entry. And, so does the violence. Fast and Furious was a good example of the porous border.

Yes, I am sure that many will complain about the use of eminent domain. However, the good of the many outweighs the good of the few. That is the essence of "eminent domain". Also, these landowners will be compensated. Probably much more than they ever could by trying to sell it.
 
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