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Broward Deputies to Carry Rifles on School Grounds: Sheriff

Lutherf said:
Money isn't going to fix the problem. People who actually give a damn will fix it, or at least take it down a few notches. Half the reason we have this mess is because people keep hollering "do something" instead of taking action themselves and when they holler like that the politicians just shovel money at the problem and patting themselves on the back for "doing something".

If we really want to fix this issue the ONLY way we can do it is if people in the community are willing to actually care enough to get involved. It's not a money problem. It's not a politics problem. It's a people problem and people need to face up to that fact.
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It's definitely a money problem.......ask anybody who understands school security.

It costs a lot and schools are already struggling.

We need a HUGE Federal program to fund this effort to protect schools and promote early mental health interventions and commitment of dangerous people.

It must be mandated and rigidly enforced.

That's the only way this problem will be solved.
 
Vox said:
It's definitely a money problem.......ask anybody who understands school security.

It costs a lot and schools are already struggling.

We need a HUGE Federal program to fund this effort to protect schools and promote early mental health interventions and commitment of dangerous people.

It must be mandated and rigidly enforced.

That's the only way this problem will be solved.
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We DO NOT need another federal program to protect us from ourselves. That's the root of this whole problem. This issue, like so many more we endure, can only be solved at the community level with community participation. The more we pawn our problems off on the state to fix the less stuff actually gets fixed. It becomes a matter of politics over principles and personal responsibility once again goes right out the window.
 
Lutherf said:
We DO NOT need another federal program to protect us from ourselves. That's the root of this whole problem. This issue, like so many more we endure, can only be solved at the community level with community participation. The more we pawn our problems off on the state to fix the less stuff actually gets fixed. It becomes a matter of politics over principles and personal responsibility once again goes right out the window.
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We DO need another Federal program........to protect children.
 
Lutherf said:
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Broward-Deputies-to-Carry-Rifles-on-School-Grounds-474763143.html



Seriously? That's a whole lot of overreaction. The kids are supposed to be going to school, not prison camp.

I get it, there's a deterrence factor. Deterrents are good but it's really easy to overdo it and that's what this feels like. A trained individual with a handgun will be more than capable of taking out an untrained kid with an AR inside a school.

You want safety? Start the security zone at the entrance to the parking lot. Solicit volunteers from the community (LOTS of retired LE and Military in most communities) to assist in security. Get these volunteers to engage with the kids, the parents and the teachers. Find out where the hot spots are and keep an eye on them.
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What are the liabilities of using volunteers for security? You know the lawyers will get involved. Even retired LEO and military will have to be checked out. I'm not poopooing this, just bringing the obvious issues with this.
 
Lutherf said:
We DO NOT need another federal program to protect us from ourselves. That's the root of this whole problem. This issue, like so many more we endure, can only be solved at the community level with community participation. The more we pawn our problems off on the state to fix the less stuff actually gets fixed. It becomes a matter of politics over principles and personal responsibility once again goes right out the window.
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"I'm with the government, and I'm here to help."
 
Lutherf said:
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Broward-Deputies-to-Carry-Rifles-on-School-Grounds-474763143.html



Seriously? That's a whole lot of overreaction. The kids are supposed to be going to school, not prison camp.

I get it, there's a deterrence factor. Deterrents are good but it's really easy to overdo it and that's what this feels like. A trained individual with a handgun will be more than capable of taking out an untrained kid with an AR inside a school.

You want safety? Start the security zone at the entrance to the parking lot. Solicit volunteers from the community (LOTS of retired LE and Military in most communities) to assist in security. Get these volunteers to engage with the kids, the parents and the teachers. Find out where the hot spots are and keep an eye on them.
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So to summarize, you are angry that:
Deputies are on school property,
That they are armed, especially with rifles, not handguns,
That they are not at the parking lot entrance,
There are no non-LEO folks carrying hand guns on school property.

And you want these non-LEO people to be heavily involved with all school folks and develop their own intelligence about problem areas.

Seriously!?
 
Vox said:
We DO need another Federal program........to protect children.
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These schools are local schools, not federal schools.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I have no idea but they found it worth responding to calls about him multiple times (about every other month for 5 years?).
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I.e., not a problem. :roll: I have to say that responsible parents, or guardians in this case (I'm aware this family wasn't court appointed) should be far more aware and concerned about this kid's behavior than they obviously were. What responsible adult would see law enforcement involved so frequently with this kid and not be aware that there's some kind of problem?
 
faithful_servant said:
We would all love it if they weren't necessary, but the cold, hard truth is that they are. The fact that you can't seem to get outside of your paradigm of "guns = bad" does not negate that fact
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Show me where I ever said "guns = bad..." I've said AR15s etc = bad and the proof is in the pudding. The cold hard truth as you say it, is a lie. THIS country, of all places should never have to have armed guards walking school grounds. But with attitudes like yours, the second amendment will become a distant memory.
 
Lutherf said:
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Broward-Deputies-to-Carry-Rifles-on-School-Grounds-474763143.html



Seriously? That's a whole lot of overreaction. The kids are supposed to be going to school, not prison camp.

I get it, there's a deterrence factor. Deterrents are good but it's really easy to overdo it and that's what this feels like. A trained individual with a handgun will be more than capable of taking out an untrained kid with an AR inside a school.

You want safety? Start the security zone at the entrance to the parking lot. Solicit volunteers from the community (LOTS of retired LE and Military in most communities) to assist in security. Get these volunteers to engage with the kids, the parents and the teachers. Find out where the hot spots are and keep an eye on them.
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Mr Person said:
1. The shooter won't go through the parking lot.

2. What happens if a volunteer citizen ends up killing someone in the name of security and is wrong?

Among other questions...
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Lutherf said:
Right. Because cops are infallible and shooters don't use parking lots.:doh
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What kind of obtuse non-response is that?

You suggested starting a security zone specifically at the entrance to the parking lot. I pointed out the obvious: a would-be shooter would therefore pick a path into the school that doesn't involve driving into the parking lot.
 
SMTA said:
So to summarize, you are angry that:
Deputies are on school property,
That they are armed, especially with rifles, not handguns,
That they are not at the parking lot entrance,
There are no non-LEO folks carrying hand guns on school property.

And you want these non-LEO people to be heavily involved with all school folks and develop their own intelligence about problem areas.

Seriously!?
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I'm not angry about deputies on school property. I'm not angry that they are armed and I'm not angry that they're armed with rifles. I'm merely stating that having deputies armed with rifles on school property is unnecessary and an overreaction to the situation.

My recommendation for beginning the security perimeter at the parking lot is for good reason. It moves the containment zone away from the school buildings thus affording the kids a larger safe area, building a safety buffer between the parking lot and the buildings and, if everything goes right, preventing a shooter from getting into the buildings where they can do more damage while making it more difficult for responders to engage them.

My recommendation for civilian assistance with school security is partly economic and primarily practical. Having qualified personnel from the community assist with school security means a better potential to get people who know the community, know the kids, know the teachers AND don't present a "threat" as law enforcement might. I suspect that kids will be more willing to engage a civilian than they will a cop when it comes to personal issues. To my thinking we want schools to be learning environments, not lock down institutions. We can accommodate safety and facilitate education at the same time if we don't freak out and go overboard on one aspect or the other.
 
American said:
What are the liabilities of using volunteers for security? You know the lawyers will get involved. Even retired LEO and military will have to be checked out. I'm not poopooing this, just bringing the obvious issues with this.
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I would expect insurance rates for the school would go up drastically having armed non LEO security on site
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I would expect insurance rates for the school would go up drastically having armed non LEO security on site
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Excellent point. Agreed.
Frankly doubtful that schools would involve non-LEOs in any security capacity.
 
Mr Person said:
What kind of obtuse non-response is that?

You suggested starting a security zone specifically at the entrance to the parking lot. I pointed out the obvious: a would-be shooter would therefore pick a path into the school that doesn't involve driving into the parking lot.
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I thought the same.
Most of our local schools have a lot of real estate.
 
I'm I the only one being reminded of what airports were like after 9/11? It will take a long time to "harden" everything.

Is this the "mass shooting" that turns us into Fortress America?
 
Captain Adverse said:
A staff of school police officers, in uniform with holstered pistols would be a sufficient show of force.

Couple that with a hardened main entrance and metal detectors, and electronically secured emergency exits, and it would go a long way towards actual prevention.
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That's why my suggestions have included security personel with concealed pieces, wearing civilian clothes.
 
Mr Person said:
What kind of obtuse non-response is that?

You suggested starting a security zone specifically at the entrance to the parking lot. I pointed out the obvious: a would-be shooter would therefore pick a path into the school that doesn't involve driving into the parking lot.
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Cameras and roving patrols will solve that problem.
 
American said:
Wow, aren't you clever and helpful? NOT.
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I'd rather see that money applied to something useful. A wall between us and Mexico ain't gonna be all that useful, sorry to say.
 
jet57 said:
Show me where I ever said "guns = bad..." I've said AR15s etc = bad and the proof is in the pudding. The cold hard truth as you say it, is a lie. THIS country, of all places should never have to have armed guards walking school grounds. But with attitudes like yours, the second amendment will become a distant memory.
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An AR-15 is no more deadly than anything else. In fact, since the round is so light, it's not as leathal as most rifles.
 
Grand Mal said:
Wow.
How'd it ever come to this? Ever wonder what those children- you're talking about elementary schools too, right?- ever wonder what those children are learning about their society?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the need for armed security in schools and, to my surprise, I agree with allowing teachers to be armed. But man oh man, any effects of institutionalization on adults, being confined in a guarded facility, must be multiplied in children.
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That there bad people in the world that are willing to do bad things, but there are good men who are willing to commit violence on their behalf.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
You know, my youngest son went to high school for a couple years in the Philippines. One day he brought a penknife to school and showed it to a friend...and suddenly that friend and several other students are clustered around him, berating him for bringing a knife to school, asking "why do you need a weapon in school? We don't need weapons here!"

That's the way it is throughout most of the rest of the world. In America, however, it's "a staff of school police officers, in uniform with holstered pistols would be a sufficient show of force...{coupled} with a hardened main entrance and metal detectors, and electronically secured emergency exits."

The really sad thing is, there's a lot of people out there who think that's the way it should be.
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When I was in school, if we had our pants on, we had a pocket knife. Not one person ever got stabbed.
 
apdst said:
An AR-15 is no more deadly than anything else. In fact, since the round is so light, it's not as leathal as most rifles.
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Yeah, that's why the military used it for so long and why AR15 mass murderers choose it and the weapon...

sure, whatever you say, you're the boss

have a -

Banana.jpg
 
Casper said:
We need to change the laws so that someone that is exhibiting anti-social tendencies, saying or doing erratic or strange things can be brought into a professional and diagnosed as to whether they are a threat to themselves of others. We will never get them all but it would stop many of them since most have a history of strange behavior.
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One of my kids is very anti-social. Should he be branded because of it?

I think we need to be careful with how we treat kids that don't fit exactly into the mold that society thinks they should.

Emma Gonzalez said during her screaming fit the other day that she knew Cruz was dangerous when they were in junior high. I can't help but wonder if Cruz wasn't driven to it.
 
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