• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Midterm Migraines for the Democrats

The Democrats have more headaches than this but this is a big one. The DNC fundraising is way below what it should be. The Republicans fund raising is at record amounts. They have Pelosi as a liability. Some people that are still disgruntled about Sanders in the election. Clinton keeps popping up to give Republicans ammo. Their biggest problem might be over confidence. If Russiagate fails, as in Mueller doesn't implicate Trump, those additional problems are compounded.
 
Mr Person said:
They do, but I think people are either not analyzing Clinton's loss in enough depth or are overestimating its impact.

If she was not the least favored candidate (by people on the left) that the Democrats have run in a very long time, she was close.

She also ignored 3 key states. They had a sort of uncoordinated volunteer ground operation but that's it. Her campaign completely blew it, apparently assuming that she'd win there because Obama did.



There's more, but those are the two biggest things. She still got 3 million more popular votes. It wasn't so much a total rejection of the Democrats - and I certainly agree they have been rather crappy themselves for some time - as it was an utter failure of a campaign.

And now people have seen what Trumpism looks like. Hot air, the only things getting done are bad things, and the death of not just truth but truthiness. Hopefully, enough of the middle voters have had enough.



The Ds need to get their **** in order and certainly shouldn't just coast on not being Trumpers. But, the situation is different in the midterms. And they have picked up a whole bunch of special election seats, so, we'll see.
Click to expand...

Clinton's loss was a perfect storm of many factors, there can be no doubt, but one of the more telling things was the defection of the 'Blue Wall' rust belt due largely to economic concerns she more or less left largely unaddressed.

I don't think anyone cited in the OP is reading into Clinton's loss overtly so much as that they're right about the fact that an approach that relies exclusively or predominantly on anti-Trump sentiment and negative campaigning is certainly and notably weaker and inferior to one that also features policy and platforms of actual interest to people.

All of the above should absolutely be the Democratic strategy, not an exclusive reliance on smears and Russiagate.
 
JasperL said:
Just curious, if we're going to go that far out and look at the REALLY big picture, what have Republicans run on but cutting taxes?
Click to expand...

National security.
Pro-business laws.
Stopping unConstitutional laws.
Fighting against oppressors.
Supporting the economy by making sure that the people who can best create jobs and growth have the best opportunity to do so.
Appointing judges who's priority is the Constitution.
 
faithful_servant said:
National security.
Pro-business laws.
Stopping unConstitutional laws.
Fighting against oppressors.
Supporting the economy by making sure that the people who can best create jobs and growth have the best opportunity to do so.
Appointing judges who's priority is the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Funny thing, there is NO national security with the leaks from the Trump admin.

and.. claiming 'unconstitional laws' is mindless rhetoric.

As is 'fighting the oppressors'
and the appointing the judges whine.
 
faithful_servant said:
National security.
Pro-business laws.
Stopping unConstitutional laws.
Fighting against oppressors.
Supporting the economy by making sure that the people who can best create jobs and growth have the best opportunity to do so.
Appointing judges who's priority is the Constitution.
Click to expand...

That's what I though - nothing really. Those are platitudes. The only other really concrete platform, and something the GOP does well, is stop ANY restrictions on guns.

But like I thought if that kind of thing is your standard, then the Democrats have run on expanding healthcare insurance and access, protecting the environment, civil rights, workers' rights, protecting SS, Medicare, and more. And if you're not willing to acknowledge that a HUGE part of every GOP campaign is they're not liberals like that dang Pelosi or the Hildabeast, etc. then you're not being honest.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
There is nothing wrong with having a vague agenda. FDR did not offer specific policy positions in the 1932 election, but the primary theme of the election was anti-Hoover and anti republicans.

The results?: https://www.270towin.com/1932_Election/
Click to expand...

This ain't 1932, this is the cusp of the Fourth Reich.
And Chuck and Nancy are such lickspittles that I wouldn't put it past them to try to "normalize" Trump if (A) the Dems sweep both houses decisively and (B) Trump instantly pivots to a "We all knew the Republicans were losers anyway" position in a desperate attempt to hang on any way possible.
Then of course, he would instantly pivot AGAIN as soon as the 2020 season begins to heat up.
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past ANY of those three.
I'd make BOOK on it! :eek:

So, it's not JUST that the establishment Dems have NO agenda, it's that they couldn't give two warm bowel movements about the agenda that the overwhelming number of fed up Democratic voters have, which is decidedly mainstream LIBERAL, while Chuck, Nancy, Wasserman-Schultz, Gillibrand and about twenty other establishment toadies are still sticking to a "Republican-Lite" agenda which is guaranteed to oppose single payer health care, weed legalization, gun regulations, DACA, environment, alternative/renewable energy, wage improvement, restoration of the social contract, unions and a balls to the wall fight to the death over the destruction of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and a strong VA system, just to name a few.

The establishment Dems will bend over on ALL of the above without even so much as a whimper, and liberals know it, and they're pissed.
 
MrWonka said:
Why? Obstructing Obama was the only thing Republicans did the previous eight years. President Obama had a comparatively high approval rating, but yet attacking him non-stop seemed to get them back control of Congress just fine. The only thing the Democrats need to worry about is Gerrymandering and the fact that they have more Senate seats to defend than Republicans. That gives them a slim margine for error, but the mid-term elections will be a referendum on Trump, and the people hate him. There's no, but her emails this time.
Click to expand...

He's from the previous group of young students that didn't vote since 2010, giving us this GOP chaos.
He laughingly tries to claim the mantle of FDR from real Democrats.
These people are completely oblivious to Democratic election success since IT was elected.

The new generation of young students will leave these millennials in the ashes of History, by VOTING.
We're already seeing the russian bots attack our students for taking a stand against weapons of massacre and death..
While we see the millenials trying to play both sides of every issue.

These phony liberals are now an insignificant factor in the Democratic Party,
similar to the Know-Nothings of 1855-1860.

The newest generation of our young students are the true Leaders and Conscience of this Nation right now.
I'm very pleased and heartened as a 42-year teacher to see what our brave and courageous students have turned into ...
 
chuckiechan said:
They have a message: “A chicken in every pot paid for by the other guy, and a tranny in your daughters bathroom at the mall!”
Click to expand...

Better be careful, leftwingers will report you to the moderators accusing you of being a Russian bot. They are all over the place I heard
interfering with our election process helping colluding on the side of Trump naturally. See post #4 he actually sincerely believes
the Russian bot influence!
 
slick said:
Better be careful, leftwingers will report you to the moderators accusing you of being a Russian bot. They are all over the place I heard
interfering with our election process helping colluding on the side of Trump naturally. See post #4 he actually sincerely believes
the Russian bot influence!
Click to expand...

He and I have exchanged opionions for many years and I’m surprised to read that.

In general America - at least the part we see - can’t see the forest for the trees and has devolved into children with a tiny world view with no room for other views.

Shocking actually, and that is no bull****.

For example: If there is any reason to investigate Clinton, inc. and the Obama administration, the reason writ large is to prevent Trump from doing it. Liberals can’t even begin to tiptoe toward that logic. If you dont prosecute it becomes de facto legal.
 
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I sir, am a Democrat."

- Will Rogers
 
MTAtech said:
The only anxiety is whether the election will be determined by American voters or Russian scoundrels aided by gerrymandering.

The Dems have lots of issues to run on besides the President being a Russian stooge and a Republican Congress being a Russian stooge enabler. They include the environmental protections being gutted; the attack by Republicans on Social Security and Medicare; the tax-cuts that favor the rich that pretend to give raises to the middle class but show that Workers got $6 billion; Shareholders $171 billion; addressing gun violence in schools; health care; to name a few.
Click to expand...

The trump mafia is being taken down one step at a time, meticulously if you will.
Bannon spending 20 hours with Mueller in one week;
after Bannon spoke of money laundering taking down the trump mafia;

Gates flipping on Manafort is a big ****ing deal;
Manafort is the chief of staff of money laundering and Mueller's current target;
With all of the ways russians have poisoned their citizens, ... ...
 
NIMBY said:
He's from the previous group of young students that didn't vote since 2010, giving us this GOP chaos.
He laughingly tries to claim the mantle of FDR from real Democrats.
These people are completely oblivious to Democratic election success since IT was elected.
Click to expand...

For what must be at least the third time in your specific case, I voted for Clinton in recognizing her as the lesser evil so you can kindly **** right off.

Recent Democrat successes have had little to do with policy, and more to do with visceral repulsion at Trump; winning by default because your opponent is damned by association isn't winning on the ideas/agenda of the party which its own research has proven is intangible to the average person, because it's all platitude. Don't believe me? Beyond the subject matter of the OP, go check out an aggregate favourability poll for the Dems sometime; the party's still far underwater, albeit not as much as the Republicans. That having be said, it is absolutely foolhardy to think that we can ride the Trump train in perpetuity, or to abandon all other routes to success.

Lastly, FDR would be utterly appalled by this breed of third way Democrat from the 80s onward and the neoliberalism they've desperately embraced in exchange for megadonor cash. The essence of FDR is in his policy, and the Clintonian, establishment Democrats such as Chuck and Pelosi I'm sure you consider to be 'real' have vanishingly and shamefully little to do with any of it. Despite his status as an independent, Bernie is far more a Democrat by the standard of FDR than any of your ineffectual loser idols in the party because he actually believes in and fights for the things Roosevelt did and would.


The new generation of young students will leave these millennials in the ashes of History, by VOTING.
We're already seeing the russian bots attack our students for taking a stand against weapons of massacre and death..
While we see the millenials trying to play both sides of every issue.

These phony liberals are now an insignificant factor in the Democratic Party,
similar to the Know-Nothings of 1855-1860.
Click to expand...

Get the **** out of here. I, and most other millennial Democrats and progressives voted Clinton despite the fact that it pained me (and them, I'm sure) greatly to do it. For all your vitriol directed against Bernie supporters, the simple fact is that they were, if anything, _more_ loyal on the whole to Clinton than Clinton's supporters were to Obama in 2008: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

Being a disingenuous ass that repeatedly and nakedly tries to smear and devalue my demographic as deadbeats and traitors to the party in a pathetic attempt to delegitimize our valid criticisms and paint us as 'phony liberals' does you no favours, and serves the interests of the Democratic party even less.

The real 'phony liberals' are all those myriad coward Democrats who rake in corporate cash hand over fist and subsequently refuse to earnestly conflict with the economic interests of those same donours in favour of constituents; who purge economic progressives and FDR traditionalists from the party leadership wholesale in a desperate attempt to circle the wagons; who completely failed to fight the Republicans in support of DACA (and just about anything else) and then pathetically turn around in an attempt to make immigration their figurehead platform when their own focus groups tell them they have none.
 
Last edited:
Checkerboard Strangler said:
This ain't 1932, this is the cusp of the Fourth Reich.
And Chuck and Nancy are such lickspittles that I wouldn't put it past them to try to "normalize" Trump if (A) the Dems sweep both houses decisively and (B) Trump instantly pivots to a "We all knew the Republicans were losers anyway" position in a desperate attempt to hang on any way possible.
Then of course, he would instantly pivot AGAIN as soon as the 2020 season begins to heat up.
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past ANY of those three.
I'd make BOOK on it! :eek:

So, it's not JUST that the establishment Dems have NO agenda, it's that they couldn't give two warm bowel movements about the agenda that the overwhelming number of fed up Democratic voters have, which is decidedly mainstream LIBERAL, while Chuck, Nancy, Wasserman-Schultz, Gillibrand and about twenty other establishment toadies are still sticking to a "Republican-Lite" agenda which is guaranteed to oppose single payer health care, weed legalization, gun regulations, DACA, environment, alternative/renewable energy, wage improvement, restoration of the social contract, unions and a balls to the wall fight to the death over the destruction of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and a strong VA system, just to name a few.

The establishment Dems will bend over on ALL of the above without even so much as a whimper, and liberals know it, and they're pissed.
Click to expand...

"Fourth Reich". Keep going with that, ought to make the midterms more of a shock than Trump's election.
 
Surrealistik said:
...
Recent Democrat successes have had little to do with policy, and more to do with visceral repulsion at Trump; winning by default because your opponent is damned by association isn't winning on the ideas/agenda of the party which its own research has proven is intangible to the average person, because it's all platitude. Don't believe me?
...
Click to expand...

It's isn't hard to link Trump and policy in the same campaign, since Trump policies are so awful. Trump is backing the ultra-right wing in trying to gut the safety net. That policy isn't popular -- nor is Trump's policies that undo environmental protection; his policies that are causing havoc with health care; and his policies that are ballooning the deficit.

Attacking Trump and attacking bad policies are one of the same.

This is John Oliver's show about how Trump is slashing the State Department which will harm U.S. foreign policy:

 
RAMOSS said:
Funny thing, there is NO national security with the leaks from the Trump admin.

and.. claiming 'unconstitional laws' is mindless rhetoric.

As is 'fighting the oppressors'
and the appointing the judges whine.
Click to expand...

Denial of reality is just sad...
 
JasperL said:
That's what I though - nothing really. Those are platitudes. The only other really concrete platform, and something the GOP does well, is stop ANY restrictions on guns.

But like I thought if that kind of thing is your standard, then the Democrats have run on expanding healthcare insurance and access, protecting the environment, civil rights, workers' rights, protecting SS, Medicare, and more. And if you're not willing to acknowledge that a HUGE part of every GOP campaign is they're not liberals like that dang Pelosi or the Hildabeast, etc. then you're not being honest.
Click to expand...

Expanding HC insurance only helped the ins. cos (HUGE Dem. donors).
Most of the environmental protections had long term effects that were either worse than what they were trying to solve or were focused on the wrong solutions.
Decreasing job availability is the worst thing you can do for a worker.
SS and Medicare not being threatened so they require no protection.

Most of the problems Dems. claim to be solving only seem to exist because they tell people they exist. Dems. love to find/create problems and then provide solutions to them - even when the problem don't exist.

/flush
 
LOL, no concrete plan? Republicans won the presidency, house AND senate, and their first action out of the winner circle?

NO CONCRETE PLAN FOR HEALTH CARE! They fumbled for months and finally quit! But you're all concerned Dems haven't shown their hand before elections!?

Democrats simply have to stand at the podium to be 100x better than the current Trump Republican asshats, sorry to say. Yes, they have to simply stand there.
 
faithful_servant said:
Keep in mind that in the last 40 years, the only wins for POTUS for the Dems have been as a result of issues outside of their control. Carter only won because of Ford's pardoning of Nixon. Clinton only won because of Perot splitting the conservative vote. Obama only won because he was able to run against the previous admin. The Dems. haven't had a message for over 40 years that they could hang their hat on. They focus on identity politics, self-created issues and generally running campaigns based on "I'm not [fill in the Rep.]." or "Vote for me because I've been in Congress for 30 years."
Click to expand...

It makes it even worse when you hear the contempt for the average american.

Pelosi did it again the other day in one of her town hall meetings.

She was ranting about american people getting more of their tax money back from the trump tax plan.

WATCH: Nancy Pelosi dodges question about net worth at town hall event

Pelosi is so full of crap.

“God never intended one group of people to live in superfluous inordinate wealth while others live in abject deadening poverty,” Pelosi said at the Phoenix, Ariz. event, quoting Martin Luther King Jr., according to a video shared by the Republican National Committee.

Shortly thereafter, a woman from the crowd raised her voice and asked, "How much are you worth, Nancy?”
“Are you in abject poverty?” the woman added.
“We’re not talking about that,” Pelosi said, noting that she has five grown children and can speak “louder than anybody.”

Pelosi is considered one of the wealthiest members of Congress and her net worth is estimated to be approximately $100 million.

lmao

I will rant against wealth unless it is my own LMAO. AKA let them eat cake.

The whole deplorable thing their utter contempt for the average working person should be fully available for everyone to see.
 
MTAtech said:
The only anxiety is whether the election will be determined by American voters or Russian scoundrels aided by gerrymandering.

The Dems have lots of issues to run on besides the President being a Russian stooge and a Republican Congress being a Russian stooge enabler. They include the environmental protections being gutted; the attack by Republicans on Social Security and Medicare; the tax-cuts that favor the rich that pretend to give raises to the middle class but show that Workers got $6 billion; Shareholders $171 billion; addressing gun violence in schools; health care; to name a few.
Click to expand...

Excuses. Excuses. But, you haven't stopped Russia and you haven't stopped gerrymandering. How do you expect to win?
 
faithful_servant said:
Expanding HC insurance only helped the ins. cos (HUGE Dem. donors).
Most of the environmental protections had long term effects that were either worse than what they were trying to solve or were focused on the wrong solutions.
Decreasing job availability is the worst thing you can do for a worker.
SS and Medicare not being threatened so they require no protection.

Most of the problems Dems. claim to be solving only seem to exist because they tell people they exist. Dems. love to find/create problems and then provide solutions to them - even when the problem don't exist.

/flush
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree.

/flush
 
MTAtech said:
So, you think that people want Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid reduced so that there can be tax-cuts for the rich? I don't think so. Do you think that voters want environmental and labor protections reduced? Do you think that voters want internet net neutrality do be eliminated? Do you think that voters want pesticides that harm childrens' brains to be banned or not banned? Do you think that financial advisors should be looking out for the client's interests or their own personal financial interests?

The reason why I ask is because the Republicans have been on the wrong side of every one of those issues.
Click to expand...

LOL. You guys have been saying that same **** for years and Republicans still win. Nobody believes you anymore.
 
MrWonka said:
Why? Obstructing Obama was the only thing Republicans did the previous eight years. President Obama had a comparatively high approval rating, but yet attacking him non-stop seemed to get them back control of Congress just fine. The only thing the Democrats need to worry about is Gerrymandering and the fact that they have more Senate seats to defend than Republicans. That gives them a slim margine for error, but the mid-term elections will be a referendum on Trump, and the people hate him. There's no, but her emails this time.
Click to expand...


THIS RIGHT HERE:
but yet attacking him non-stop seemed to get them back control of Congress just fine.
Click to expand...
is WOEFULLY incorrect, sir.

Attacking Obama didn't get the Republicans back in control of both chambers in Congress.
Disaffected low information millennials sitting at home on their lazy entitled butts instead of voting did, sulking hyper-partisan ultra liberals who decided to stay home and not vote at all because THEIR DREAM CANDIDATE didn't win did, Democrats who stayed glued to the election results and "thought we had the Hillary win IN THE BAG" and didn't bother to go out and vote did, people who didn't bother to fact check all the conspiracy nuts did, ass hats who screamed "HILLARY IS WORSE THAN TRUMP!" and "NEVER HILLARY!!!!" did.

Republicans winning the trifecta is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OUR FAULT.

I wonder how many people actually stop to consider how different this past year would have been if we had just managed to retain our slim Senate majority. If I'm not mistaken, Bernie Sanders would have had a majority seat in the Senate Budget Committee, yes?
Despite the establishment boneheads in the Democratic Party, enough liberal Democrat senators would have been able to continue providing a bulwark and a firewall against the whackjob Freedom Caucus and the Paul Ryan-Ayn Rand worshiping cabal in the House.
A Democratic Senate Majority leader would have been able to stand up to some of the more rapacious moves coming from House Republicans on every attack against our social contract.

I'm not saying we could have stopped everything, but we could have stopped some it.
As it stands now, we are powerless to stop ANYTHING at all.

Trump is not a survivable event because an alt-Right trifecta in all three branches of government, and make no mistake about it, it is not JUST "a Republican trifecta" IS the alt-Right WRIT LARGE.

You people on this side need to get this through your heads: We may not have another chance at stopping this hemorrhaging of the American democratic process for another generation, if ever...if we do not SWEEP BOTH CHAMBERS OF CONGRESS this November.
Another two years of alt-Right Republican trifecta control of all branches of government IS the political and moral equivalent of a Reichstag Enabling Act.

And last but not least: The mid-terms is a lot more than just a referendum on Trump, because if we do not HAVE a plan, a blueprint, a set of solid values and an agenda worth looking at, we WILL NOT GET the VOTES.

Does the loss of nearly a THOUSAND seats across America to the alt-Right not mean anything to you?
Does the loss of THREE ELECTIONS (2010, 2014 and 2016) not mean ANYTHING to you at all?

When your team is a three time loser, it is clear that dumb complacency and pretending that all that matters is attacking Trump is not enough.

Sorry Mr. Wonka but I say this with respect but also with no uncertain amount of desperation:
Being LAZY is not going to work this time, and just counting on a referendum on Trump is the height of laziness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom