• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

GOPer: Trump’s Startling Plan to Kill Social Security in Second Term

This is speculation and fear mongering. Even after Trump said several times that he has no intention of firing Mueller, we're still getting warnings from people like Senator Warner that Trump had better not think about firing Mueller. The OP serves to set up the same damn goofy narrative regarding SS. OTOH, everybody in the country should hope that SS becomes a program for the poor only - those that cannot save for a retirement. In a better country, we should hope everyone ese is well off enough to not require it. That's something worth working toward.

You mean like he called his tax plan a middle class tax cut. I have a question? Who would you feel comfortable having Trump investigated by. The reason I ask is that Mueller is a lifelong Republican and was appointed to the FBI by a Republican. Now when you answer this please hold to the same standard for a Dem being investigated. But I doubt your scenario is meant to be fair it is just the echo chamber of the far right that is repeated again and again until you Conservatives accept it as truth.
 
And with that you've shown all I need to know. Insurance contractual terms don't magically change after a claim is submitted. It's right there in the contract before anyone agrees to anything what the insurance company offers and the applicant accepts.

S.S. works as a ponzi scheme because the people paying into it today are paying for the benefits people are receiving today.

Spending caps aren't implemented after the fact along with the other nonsense you're spouting. I don't need to tell you what insurance field I work in because I've mentioned it repeatedly on this forum and it wouldn't matter anyway. You can have the last word.

1.
---The lifespan of a medical insurance claim for long term treatment often outlives the span of a policy contract, which is generally an annual one, so immediately we know you do not work in health insurance. Yes, spending caps ARE implemented, the moment the annual policy expires and a renewal is needed.
A CANCER treatment might last two years, for instance, and coverage for a relapse might not be available any longer in the second year.
This isn't like getting in a fender bender where you wind up driving a dented car because the insurer refused your claim.
You could DIE. With car insurance, your car will be driveable even if it has a dent. That's an important difference.
You might not agree.

2.
---Insurance companies are required by law to hold a certain amount of assets and cash to guard against a massive payout, say for instance, if everyone got critically ill at the same time. Your insurance company is also insured to guard against this scenario (although the likelihood of this happening is extremely rare).

3.
---Social Security's Trust Fund is invested in real-life assets: special-issue U.S. Treasury bonds.
A ponzi scheme has no real tangible assets other than the cash currently sitting on the books from current investors.
The assets are imaginary, phantom.

4.
---Social Security's accounting is about as honest as any accounting based on projections can be. Its trustees are actively telling you that it is currently running out of money.
That's transparency, and it's a call to action, for the lawmakers to pass measures to make adjustments to cover such shortfalls.
A ponzi scheme will lie through its teeth in its accounting and projections to try to get you to "invest" more in it, usually through forward looking statements that look stunning in their predictions, and references to vast payouts in the past.

5.
---Lastly, it is sustainable. Ponzi schemes are not, because no actual investments are being made in tangible assets.

Furthermore, going back to (1) you're misinformed as to the nature of policy changes implemented during the lifespan of a health insurance policy contract because all health insurance policy contracts contain clauses that permit the insurer to MAKE such changes at will, if in their estimation, it is considered by THEM to be prudent to do so, and most policies now require arbitration instead of tort, so that the policyholder cannot sue the insurer.
So it does matter, because you're making baseless and fact free attacks on a sustainable insurance program funded by worker contributions, because (A) you do not understand how it works, and (B) your agenda requires you believe it is a government swindle, so that you can justify your support for its dissolution and/or privatization, the latter of which is just "giving the money to criminals on Wall Street" who wouldn't DREAM OF ever swindling the public, would they?
Not that you care.

We're done.
 
Even Democrats acknowledge that both Social Security and Medicare are on a course to insolvency. Cuts need to be made.

Don't even try, this thread is quickly devolving into another "**** Trump" by any means necessary thread.

I have no issue with legitimate discourse against the president, but this crap is just childish.
 
Yep, but cuts don't need to be made. If we can add 1.5 trillion to the deficit to give tax cuts to wealthy and corporations that don't need it, then surely we can add to the deficit for SS and medicare. Any bipartisan effort to reform those programs should have gone out the window after the tax cut. Obviously the debt is no longer a priority so we can just keep doing what we have been doing.

I would have more animosity against Trump, had he not tried at all.

In this situation however, it is becoming a "damned if you do damned if you don't" kind of choice.
 
You mean like he called his tax plan a middle class tax cut. I have a question? Who would you feel comfortable having Trump investigated by. The reason I ask is that Mueller is a lifelong Republican and was appointed to the FBI by a Republican. Now when you answer this please hold to the same standard for a Dem being investigated. But I doubt your scenario is meant to be fair it is just the echo chamber of the far right that is repeated again and again until you Conservatives accept it as truth.

For most middle class Americans, it is a tax cut. For some, it isn't. I'm not sure what that has to do with SS and baseless speculation about what Trump might do in his second term, were he to have a second term. It's my understanding from the left here that Trump will be impeached any second now, so I'm not sure why the left would speculate on a second term. Maybe you can explain that.

I do like your tacit assertion that the former FBI director could be biased in his conduct of this investigation. I thought Mueller was a straight down the middle of the road guy. If the FBI is unbiased in it's pursuit of justice, personal party affiliation doesn't matter. If the FBI isn't unbiased, it looks like an awful lot of FBI people near the top of this investigation team need to leave.
 
For most middle class Americans, it is a tax cut. For some, it isn't. I'm not sure what that has to do with SS and baseless speculation about what Trump might do in his second term, were he to have a second term. It's my understanding from the left here that Trump will be impeached any second now, so I'm not sure why the left would speculate on a second term. Maybe you can explain that.

I do like your tacit assertion that the former FBI director could be biased in his conduct of this investigation. I thought Mueller was a straight down the middle of the road guy. If the FBI is unbiased in it's pursuit of justice, personal party affiliation doesn't matter. If the FBI isn't unbiased, it looks like an awful lot of FBI people near the top of this investigation team need to leave.

You mean when Obama said you could keep your doctor when nearly all Americans were able to do so less 10%, but the Right made it out that he had lied through his teeth. To this day I have not met one person who was not able to keep his or her doctor. Not that I am saying it did not happen to some extent. Now in reference to Commander "bone Spur" he has lied a tremendous amount. As far as a middle class tax cuts the people living in New Jersey, New York, California, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Florida and several other states might say bull crap on that. My point is if you are going by what this POTUS says as the Gospel you got to be kidding. These moron changes his opinions sometimes during the same sentence. Registering friends and neighbors to vote is the only answer. The 2018 Tsunami is coming
 
If phased out sensibly with a low guaranteed minimum income or negative income tax? Apriori it would improve the country’s circumstances and economic position.

1. That argument relies on the GOP actually passing a reasonable guaranteed minimum income. Your mug of coffee is more likely to vanish and simultaneously appear on Kim Jong Un's desk over in NK.

2. That is a necessarily empirical argument, anyway. It cannot be a priori.





I don't understand why people who support this kind of conservative "screw everyone but me and my own" policy can't just admit that that's what they bloody support. Instead they have to lie about it - oh, they have good intentions, everything will work out, yadda yadda.

NO. The tax cuts are a blatantly cynical plan to reward rich entities and individuals, while also creating a revenue crisis. That revenue crisis will then be used as an excuse to do away with safety net programs. They had to do it that way because even Trump's poor supporters probably aren't so extremely stupid that they'd vote for someone who openly admitted that their goal is to get rid of programs those poor supporters rely on. So they have to do it this way around. And they'll probably be blaming liberals, to boot.

Whether it's SS, Medicaid, Medicare, direct welfare, or any combination thereof, the GOP is coming for safety net programs.
 
1. That argument relies on the GOP actually passing a reasonable guaranteed minimum income. Your mug of coffee is more likely to vanish and simultaneously appear on Kim Jong Un's desk over in NK.

2. That is a necessarily empirical argument, anyway. It cannot be a priori.





I don't understand why people who support this kind of conservative "screw everyone but me and my own" policy can't just admit that that's what they bloody support. Instead they have to lie about it - oh, they have good intentions, everything will work out, yadda yadda.

NO. The tax cuts are a blatantly cynical plan to reward rich entities and individuals, while also creating a revenue crisis. That revenue crisis will then be used as an excuse to do away with safety net programs. They had to do it that way because even Trump's poor supporters probably aren't so extremely stupid that they'd vote for someone who openly admitted that their goal is to get rid of programs those poor supporters rely on. So they have to do it this way around. And they'll probably be blaming liberals, to boot.

Whether it's SS, Medicaid, Medicare, direct welfare, or any combination thereof, the GOP is coming for safety net programs.


some of US already knew this, before the 2016 election; I was discussing these issues with family members leading up to the election. It was obvious then what would be attempted if a certain candidate won the election ..........
 
1. That argument relies on the GOP actually passing a reasonable guaranteed minimum income. Your mug of coffee is more likely to vanish and simultaneously appear on Kim Jong Un's desk over in NK.

2. That is a necessarily empirical argument, anyway. It cannot be a priori.





I don't understand why people who support this kind of conservative "screw everyone but me and my own" policy can't just admit that that's what they bloody support. Instead they have to lie about it - oh, they have good intentions, everything will work out, yadda yadda.

NO. The tax cuts are a blatantly cynical plan to reward rich entities and individuals, while also creating a revenue crisis. That revenue crisis will then be used as an excuse to do away with safety net programs. They had to do it that way because even Trump's poor supporters probably aren't so extremely stupid that they'd vote for someone who openly admitted that their goal is to get rid of programs those poor supporters rely on. So they have to do it this way around. And they'll probably be blaming liberals, to boot.

Whether it's SS, Medicaid, Medicare, direct welfare, or any combination thereof, the GOP is coming for safety net programs.

"...and your little dog too."
 
I would have more animosity against Trump, had he not tried at all.

In this situation however, it is becoming a "damned if you do damned if you don't" kind of choice.

The good thing is Republicans will never have credit again to complain about the debt. If we can give to the wealthy, we can keep the programs for the poor. Next time a Republican talks about cutting a program, Dems can just point to dropping the tax cuts for the wealthy to save the programs.
 
You mean when Obama said you could keep your doctor when nearly all Americans were able to do so less 10%, but the Right made it out that he had lied through his teeth. To this day I have not met one person who was not able to keep his or her doctor. Not that I am saying it did not happen to some extent. Now in reference to Commander "bone Spur" he has lied a tremendous amount. As far as a middle class tax cuts the people living in New Jersey, New York, California, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Florida and several other states might say bull crap on that. My point is if you are going by what this POTUS says as the Gospel you got to be kidding. These moron changes his opinions sometimes during the same sentence. Registering friends and neighbors to vote is the only answer. The 2018 Tsunami is coming

Maybe you should have a little talk with your representatives in Congress and see if they would want to join in discussions with the GOP regarding legislation like the tax package. Their expressed opinions might have more traction if they would participate in advance of such legislation rather than leaving you twisting in the wind and crying about it after the fact.
 
Maybe you should have a little talk with your representatives in Congress and see if they would want to join in discussions with the GOP regarding legislation like the tax package. Their expressed opinions might have more traction if they would participate in advance of such legislation rather than leaving you twisting in the wind and crying about it after the fact.

I think it was the republicans who shut dems out of the conversation all together. They were content on passing this with 50 votes(pence breaking the tie if needed). They didn't need to dems to pass it.
 
Even Democrats acknowledge that both Social Security and Medicare are on a course to insolvency. Cuts need to be made.

Or more revenue is needed. We made a contract with our citizens and it cannot be broken.
 
Its not like hasn’t broken a promise in the past.:roll:

This promise is huge because it was a key distinction between him and his GOP rivals. Breaking this promise would be similar the HW's tax promise.
 
I think it was the republicans who shut dems out of the conversation all together. They were content on passing this with 50 votes(pence breaking the tie if needed). They didn't need to dems to pass it.

You might remember the empty seats that were reserved for Schumer and Pelosi at the WH. They declined to participate.
 
You might remember the empty seats that were reserved for Schumer and Pelosi at the WH. They declined to participate.

Doesn't matter if they did as republicans had no intention of passing this in a bipartisan manner. They were going to do this with a simple majority. Not a single republican voted for Obamacare and very few voted for the stimulus. This is the same way.
 
Doesn't matter if they did as republicans had no intention of passing this in a bipartisan manner. They were going to do this with a simple majority. Not a single republican voted for Obamacare and very few voted for the stimulus. This is the same way.

It is the very same way, with the exception that Schumer and Pelosi were absolutely invited to participate as the representatives of the political left from congress. If I am to believe what the political left is saying now, the tax cuts for the middle class just aren't big enough. Given the GOP's mood, I'd say Schumer and Pelosi missed an opportunity to make those tax cuts larger.
 
You might remember the empty seats that were reserved for Schumer and Pelosi at the WH. They declined to participate.

:lamo

Hilarious. McConnell even admitted they had no interest in working with the Dems on it. They had the votes so they didn't have to. Why would they show up if they knew in advance they were shut out?

The depths of stupid dishonesty some people will sink to, just to defend their team....I swear.....

Why'd you do it?



It is the very same way, with the exception that Schumer and Pelosi were absolutely invited to participate as the representatives of the political left from congress. If I am to believe what the political left is saying now, the tax cuts for the middle class just aren't big enough. Given the GOP's mood, I'd say Schumer and Pelosi missed an opportunity to make those tax cuts larger.

Another example.



2009 was the time for a stimulus and the Obama stimulus did give tax cuts to people in a way that would be likely to create some new demand; 2017 is not the time for a stimulus yet that is how the bill is touted, and it is giving the tax cuts to people in away that will not stimulate new demand.

But you knew that was the point....
 
:lamo

Hilarious. McConnell even admitted they had no interest in working with the Dems on it. They had the votes so they didn't have to. But you say otherwise.





The depths of stupid dishonesty some people will sink to, just to defend their team....I swear.....



Another example.



2009 was the time for a stimulus and the Obama stimulus did give tax cuts to people in a way that would be likely to create some new demand; 2017 is not the time for a stimulus yet that is how the bill is touted, and it is giving the tax cuts to people in away that will not stimulate new demand.

But you knew that was the point....

Fear mongering in a thread designed with that in mind. When you have nothing to offer, paint those who do as really, really nefarious creatures with evil intent. Way to stay on point.
 
Fear mongering in a thread designed with that in mind. When you have nothing to offer, paint those who do as really, really nefarious creatures with evil intent. Way to stay on point.

Lying about what people posted isn't nearly as clever as you seem to think it is.

Anyway, since you're just trolling....

:2wave:
 
"...and your little dog too."

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

Some of our Presidents - from both parties - have used money from the Social Security Trust Fund to pay for programs they wanted that had nothing to do with Social Security! I believe LBJ was the first to raid the SS trust fund to pay for the Vietnam War! Sure, there are IOU's to account for the money taken, but that doesn't solve the problem of where the money is going to come from to pay SS in the future! That is the government's problem to fix, NOT the people who had SS taken from their paycheck - whether they agreed or not, the money was taken out! Period!

IMO, the government would be wise to look elsewhere for funds, if they don't want a big problem from millions of seniors, since they have known for years that millions of Boomers would one day be retiring, but they just kept kicking the can down the road rather than working to find a fair solution - and BTW, cutting payments isn't one of them! :roll:
 
Back
Top Bottom