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China sends troops into Syria to help Assad

Tangmo said:
Inquiring minds can be satisfied that while the Party Central Military Commission copies the U.S. armed forces in many things such as rank nomenclature and insignia the Boyz don't have Rotc. Xi Jinpingpong has initiated a modified two years of service program for college students in their third (junior) year but the volunteers don't necessarily become officers. Some participants get a 90-day-wonder kind of officer program but then get billeted as assistant deputy underling to a captain or major. Or follow a 1Lt around. NCO are not in their day either. It's not an appealing program in any way.

Xi's purpose is to improve the aptitude of the force that is largely conscripted from the remote and undeveloped provinces - the villages and small cities away from the developed coastal urban areas. The swarm of urban middle class kids nightclubbing on their parent's tab have zero interest in military discipline so the quality of the armed forces continues to be wanting. In fact and this is another topic but military style correction camps out in the vast and barren sticks are a booming business of big bucks popular with middle class parents to ship out their wild and defiant sons and daughters for shaping up -- the teens stay out there in a moonscape till they're broken in. Run ragged by a caveman cadre who thrive on it.

PLA is a huge Soviet bureaucracy of corruption and ineptitude. PLA incidentally means all of the armed forces. It's the PLA Navy too and the PLA Air Force besides. Army controls and runs everything. Promotions in the Navy -- the PLAN -- are cleared by army brass as are promotions in the Air Force which is the PLAAF. Xi is trying to integrate the three forces on the U.S. model but he's up against the proverbial Leviathan. The Chinese ancient rule of seven in and eight out doesn't work the way it used to because of the huge numbers and countless recesses. That is, when you put new people somewhere you always take out more than you put in. In the contemporary bureaucracy the eight people you nab first off are nobodys while the guyz with power and money have hid themselves away in it for life. You can't manage what you can't see or find and there are too many of 'em tucked away.

There are elite units such as the PLA Rocket Force, the old Second Artillery Corps. RF is scientifically and militarily respected because it has all the strategic nuclear missiles and the conventional ones too. Xi has elevated RF above the PLA top field commanders so Xi will have to keep his head down still and for a while yet. There is officer candidate school in the CCP armed forces yet they're missing a lot by not having Rotc or something equivalent. All of us in Rotc wherever we were agree that unlike West Point et al, being a civilian college military cadet is the most fun you can have with your clothes on. It's military education and training so it's serious stuff but you've got to mangle a rocket azimuth into the Administration Building to get yourself busted out. Cause at Pentagon and in Congress each one of us is a big investment. Always.

I did The Old Guard 3 IR each day for four years after my Rotc concentration in national security and strategy -- I wuz invited into TOG and I accepted cheerfully. We did our Rotc summers at Ft. Benning, Ft. Dix, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Drum among other army paradise resorts. We got our balls busted every minute high and low wet and cold and to all four points of the compass. 3 IR does field training exercises at Ft. A.P. Hill in central Virginia each winter during the off tourist season of the National Capital Region. I did jrotc in high school (cadet ltc senior year) and senior rotc at university (cadet ltc year four). Between 'em I did prize drill team member and then leader, color guard, military police, public speaking, parades and ceremonies, field training exercises, sat through classes and got tested in more ways than one. No one could beat those eight years with a stick.

What I didn't get in either rotc experience was to carry the national flag in color guard my second year cause the pms pulled me out to put me in charge of some cadets so I could qualify to be advanced. What I didn't get out of either rotc was to be a company commander of cadets -- to command directly faces, bodies, souls -- the grunts. I got that in TOG but it wuz too important in active duty to have much fun with; still, it was fine. Instead I wuz cadet ltc twice sitting at tables in offices with snotty cadet major staff officers ticking boxes and cussing 'em out for failing to order up a jeep. Yes I made rotc command decisions in the office and in the field and that was good. And what's good is good so there's nothing to complain about. Now I feel somewhat inspired to email Leader Xi to tell him to press on with it.
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I guess you lied when you stated you had me on ignore.

Oh, and cool story, bro...
 
These Chinese "troops" must be very stealth...No photos, images....or evidence they are in Syria
 
This pretty much sums it up: It is a false news report out of Russia...


SANA refutes as “baseless” publishing news on arrival of Chinese forces in Syria, Sputnik apologizes

16 December، 2017

Damascus, SANA - Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) refuted as “ baseless” what Sputnik Agency had attributed to it on its website, stressing that that it had not published any news concerning the arrival of Chinese forces in Syria.

Sputnik has corrected the mistake on its website and apologized for attributing, by mistake, the news to SANA as a source.

The apologize came after that SANA asked Sputnik to give a clarification on this mistake and to correct it.

https://sana.sy/en/?p=121484



This discusses some of why CCP Boyz in Beijing aren't militarily involved significantly in Syria and why the Boyz wont commit. It comes from the Strategic Studies Group....


Some version or another of this story has circulated in the Alt-Media Community every couple of months since the start of Russia’s 2015 intervention in Syria, causing premature celebrations from Beijing’s foreign supporters who are utterly enthralled at the prospect of the People’s Republic entering the war. The image of Chinese and Russian troops fighting side-by-side with their Syrian allies against American-backed proxy forces is the ultimate political fantasy for some, but sadly for them, nothing of the sort will probably ever happen, or at least not at all like how they imagine it.

Beijing wants to avoid the resultant Western opprobrium that this decision would produce, and not only that, but its conservative foreign policy has traditionally seen the country eschew direct participation in far-away conflicts. All that China wants is for stability to return to the country so that it can invest, and the thought that the People’s Republic would riskily deploy its own military forces in pursuit of this is indicative of wishful thinking and a total lack of understanding of the Chinese policymaking agenda. China would rather have others fight to stabilize states and then move in to sign deals there afterwards once the smoke settles.

Chinese troops in Syria - TACSTRAT


Indeed, China won the war in Iraq as evidenced by Chinese drilling oil between Baghdad, Basra and to the Saudi border, then shipping it out via the Gulf to the PRC. Assad has said he wants the Boyz to enter Syria after a peace settlement to reconstruct the country to the tune of $1 Trillion. So it's pretty clear the Chinese tigers are still grazing at home which where they plan to stay.
 
camlok said:
I know you will. USians are born into mouthing propaganda to help divert attention from their long long history of deep deep evil.

Do you have a count for the US's Native American genocide? How about the Philippines, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Chile, Mexico, Angola, Cuba, ... ?
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The United States has never engaged in a war or campaign of annihilation or genocide. In relocating Native Americans from east of the Mississippi to west of it for instance, it was a relocation of tribes. Some people perished due to the forced nature of it. The USA did not seek to annihilate or destroy those being relocated. They were being relocated. Indeed, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia in favor of Cherokee land and residence claims which infuriated Trump's hero Jackson who ordered the relocating.

Nor has the United States enslaved people it assumed control over in war or outside of war. The USA manhandled Native Americans at various times but it never sought to disappear or to annihilate Native Americans from the continent. Enslavement is a component of genocide which the USA did not engage.

There were forced relocations of native inhabitants in The Americas from 1540-1924 to include Canada, USA, Mexico in North America. However, despite certain battles in which the opponent was in fact annihilated by one side or the other, the United States did not annihilate any native population, nor did the USA have a policy or practice of genocide; nor did USA enslave a native population once USA assumed control or dominance over it and its previously held lands.

The foreign countries you list were not annihilated or extinguished either. Their populations survived war and they continue to exist and reproduce. I myself would convict GW Bush for the war crime of Iraq but it is inconceivable he could be charged with genocide. Nor would the Nuremburg Trials apply as the standards of genocide established by the verdicts are extraordinarily high, rare and in many respects unique. The trials are more of a necessary reference point in international affairs and establish legal principles which are specific.

The long and the short of it is that your hot air machine is working overtime.
 
reinoe said:
If true then it's good to see the Chinese standing up to fight terrorism unlike Obama's administration.
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Not at all true. Why would you make such an outrageous comment?
 
Lerxst said:
Not at all true. Why would you make such an outrageous comment?
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Because Obama's admin was arming and training terrorists in Syria. China is fighting terrorists.
 
Lerxst said:
Evidence to support that claim?
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Why did Russian forces turn the tide so quickly once they entered? The US had been bombing over there for years, and ISUS thrived. Congresswoman Gabbard discussed it on at least one talk show, and the host was as deeply in denial as you. Yes Virginia, ISUS is supported by the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Why did Russian forces turn the tide so quickly once they entered? The US had been bombing over there for years, and ISUS thrived. Congresswoman Gabbard discussed it on at least one talk show, and the host was as deeply in denial as you. Yes Virginia, ISUS is supported by the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia.
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They are supported the very same way that we supported the North Vietnamese; we send so much stuff over there that the corruption goes crazy.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Why did Russian forces turn the tide so quickly once they entered? The US had been bombing over there for years, and ISUS thrived. Congresswoman Gabbard discussed it on at least one talk show, and the host was as deeply in denial as you. Yes Virginia, ISUS is supported by the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia.
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As usual, utterly false without a single scrap of evidence to support your claim. ISIS was certainly not "thriving".
 
Thoreau72 said:
Why did Russian forces turn the tide so quickly once they entered? The US had been bombing over there for years, and ISUS thrived. Congresswoman Gabbard discussed it on at least one talk show, and the host was as deeply in denial as you. Yes Virginia, ISUS is supported by the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia.
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You confused having mutual end games with support. Both ISIS and the U.S. led coalition both wanted Assad to be toppled. That does not mean we supported ISIS. We actually carried out thousands of sorties against them. Those are the facts.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Why did Russian forces turn the tide so quickly once they entered? The US had been bombing over there for years, and ISUS thrived. Congresswoman Gabbard discussed it on at least one talk show, and the host was as deeply in denial as you. Yes Virginia, ISUS is supported by the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia.
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Why lie?
 
Lerxst said:
You confused having mutual end games with support. Both ISIS and the U.S. led coalition both wanted Assad to be toppled. That does not mean we supported ISIS. We actually carried out thousands of sorties against them. Those are the facts.
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Those are the facts as reported by US and western propaganda outlets, therefore they are propaganda.

All actions in Syria are meant to destroy that country for the benefit of the Israeli agenda. What you read in the western media regarding Syria is complete propaganda.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Those are the facts as reported by US and western propaganda outlets, therefore they are propaganda.

All actions in Syria are meant to destroy that country for the benefit of the Israeli agenda. What you read in the western media regarding Syria is complete propaganda.
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I'm no fan of Israel, but I'm going to need more than that to consider your statement as valid. Syria, as a state actor, is no real threat to Israel and hasn't been for some time.

I am pretty sure we don't want to carry this discussion too far in this thread, we could end up crossing the "martial law" line.
 
Lerxst said:
I'm no fan of Israel, but I'm going to need more than that to consider your statement as valid. Syria, as a state actor, is no real threat to Israel and hasn't been for some time.

I am pretty sure we don't want to carry this discussion too far in this thread, we could end up crossing the "martial law" line.
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You have to excuse T72....

Everything that happens geopolitically is done to benefit Israel. (Slight hyperbole) Even if it doesn't benefit them.

9/11 = Israel

Saddam = Israel

Waxy yellow buildup = Israel
 
Fledermaus said:
You have to excuse T72....

Everything that happens geopolitically is done to benefit Israel. (Slight hyperbole) Even if it doesn't benefit them.

9/11 = Israel

Saddam = Israel

Waxy yellow buildup = Israel
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DISCLAIMER: I need to be clear about this in the very beginning, I don't want any members who read this to think that I an anti-semite or Jew hater. I've seen these conversation go south very quickly when someone is critical of Israel. I have nothing against Israeli's (jewish or arab or whatever). I have an issue with U.S. policy towards Israel (and Saudi Arabia), and I have an issue with Israeli policy towards Palestinians. It's repugnant.

I am certainly aware of the very unhealthy relationship the U.S. has maintained with Israel and Saudi Arabia, and why we have maintained those relationships to the detriment of our every other relationship we have in the Middle East. The Israeli lobby is deeply entrenched in D.C. and fiercely aggressive. However, I'm not going to accept that the U.S. funded ISIS to topple Syria for the benefit of Israel. We certainly funded, equipped, and trained a number of factions in the fight against Assad, but I have yet to see any evidence to prove we did the same for ISIS.

As an aside, I have some books that you may find interesting if don't already have them.
Reset: Iran, Turkey, and America's Future by Stephen Kinzer I highly recommend this book. I have all of Kinzer's books, but this one is simply top shelf.
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Police by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
Against Our Better Judgement: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel by Alison Weir

I have several others, but these three books I think are must reads for anyone who is on the fence about U.S. foreign policy and Israel.
 
Lerxst said:
DISCLAIMER: I need to be clear about this in the very beginning, I don't want any members who read this to think that I an anti-semite or Jew hater. I've seen these conversation go south very quickly when someone is critical of Israel. I have nothing against Israeli's (jewish or arab or whatever). I have an issue with U.S. policy towards Israel (and Saudi Arabia), and I have an issue with Israeli policy towards Palestinians. It's repugnant.

I am certainly aware of the very unhealthy relationship the U.S. has maintained with Israel and Saudi Arabia, and why we have maintained those relationships to the detriment of our every other relationship we have in the Middle East. The Israeli lobby is deeply entrenched in D.C. and fiercely aggressive. However, I'm not going to accept that the U.S. funded ISIS to topple Syria for the benefit of Israel. We certainly funded, equipped, and trained a number of factions in the fight against Assad, but I have yet to see any evidence to prove we did the same for ISIS.

As an aside, I have some books that you may find interesting if don't already have them.
Reset: Iran, Turkey, and America's Future by Stephen Kinzer I highly recommend this book. I have all of Kinzer's books, but this one is simply top shelf.
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Police by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
Against Our Better Judgement: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel by Alison Weir

I have several others, but these three books I think are must reads for anyone who is on the fence about U.S. foreign policy and Israel.
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I will also point out there are a signifigent number of Israeli citizens that disagree with their government. Other than that.. this topic should be elsehwhere.
 
Lerxst said:
DISCLAIMER: I need to be clear about this in the very beginning, I don't want any members who read this to think that I an anti-semite or Jew hater. I've seen these conversation go south very quickly when someone is critical of Israel. I have nothing against Israeli's (jewish or arab or whatever). I have an issue with U.S. policy towards Israel (and Saudi Arabia), and I have an issue with Israeli policy towards Palestinians. It's repugnant.

I am certainly aware of the very unhealthy relationship the U.S. has maintained with Israel and Saudi Arabia, and why we have maintained those relationships to the detriment of our every other relationship we have in the Middle East. The Israeli lobby is deeply entrenched in D.C. and fiercely aggressive. However, I'm not going to accept that the U.S. funded ISIS to topple Syria for the benefit of Israel. We certainly funded, equipped, and trained a number of factions in the fight against Assad, but I have yet to see any evidence to prove we did the same for ISIS.

As an aside, I have some books that you may find interesting if don't already have them.
Reset: Iran, Turkey, and America's Future by Stephen Kinzer I highly recommend this book. I have all of Kinzer's books, but this one is simply top shelf.
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Police by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
Against Our Better Judgement: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel by Alison Weir

I have several others, but these three books I think are must reads for anyone who is on the fence about U.S. foreign policy and Israel.
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I have to confess I am not up on the nuances of the middle east, Canada is not all that much affected usually.

However I believe the US position on Israel is the same as that of Britain, Canada, and Germany if not Franc with exceptions. It has been a standard (taught in US school to me) that Israel could not exist if not for the $ and arms backing of the US and it's European allies.

Much of that I can accept, however it seems the support now is blind. Under Trump it appears the colonial policies Israel has held are being carried out taking west bank land from its rightful residents. That should NOT be supported.

Trump's moving an embassy ends years of negotiations aimed at limiting Israel's expansion and making "Palestine" a multinational, and multi denominational. Muslims, Christians, Jews and B'Hai all call Palestine their "spiritual home" To hand it over to Israel carte blanche ignoring the other needs will set that goal back decades
 
RAMOSS said:
I will also point out there are a signifigent number of Israeli citizens that disagree with their government. Other than that.. this topic should be elsehwhere.
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You are correct on both points.
 
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