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Former Cop Acquitted Of Fatally Shooting Unarmed Man Who Begged For His Life

trblmkr said:
I' sorry. I can't see an equivalency between overlooking workplace violations and criminal behavior in regards to law enforcement. Especially when a death is involved.
I do agree about the workplace though. Sometimes, coming forward can be harmful to your health and or employment. At one place I worked, a long time supervisor who was stealing from the company was seen and reported to management. He was not fired or demoted and the guy who reported him has so harassed he eventually left and sued. In another one, a guy reported time clock violations to HR and HR wrote the violator up but told him who ratted him out.
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Same here. But what im saying is to a lot of cops its just their form of paycheck and career they happened to choose. They arent sure if they are worth upsetting the ox-cart so they just dont do it. For a cop covering up a crime its not just the crime.. BUT also the lost of their paycheck and carreer. So for some of them, Not tattling = survival. Even if it is a lazy form of survival because they could just get a new job. But they enjoy the entitlements it brings but also just cant fix something that seems bigger than them.



I had the same thing happen to me many times with workplace. I ratted on one of my trainers who had me just hiding out in refinery machines just milking the clock in the danger zone. So I ratted on him and the boss just said "ohhh ok" then went right up to the guy and told him. The guy slaps me at a party and we get into a big fight and 3 years later hes lead inspection engineer.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Same here. But what im saying is to a lot of cops its just their form of paycheck and career they happened to choose. They arent sure if they are worth upsetting the ox-cart so they just dont do it. For a cop covering up a crime its not just the crime.. BUT also the lost of their paycheck and carreer. So for some of them, Not tattling = survival. Even if it is a lazy form of survival because they could just get a new job. But they enjoy the entitlements it brings but also just cant fix something that seems bigger than them.



I had the same thing happen to me many times with workplace. I ratted on one of my trainers who had me just hiding out in refinery machines just milking the clock in the danger zone. So I ratted on him and the boss just said "ohhh ok" then went right up to the guy and told him. The guy slaps me at a party and we get into a big fight and 3 years later hes lead inspection engineer.
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Having been to our crhistmas party last night, I am reminded of a guy who got his girlfriend to go up to his boss and wife at their table and say, "I didn't know you were married" and storm off. That was classic.
 
JasperL said:
1) I respect them. There are some assholes and idiots in the LEO ranks like there are in ANY job, but overwhelmingly as a group I see them as decent people doing a damn hard job dealing with the dregs of our society on a daily basis.

2) If the LEO community actually, really sees that situation as correctly handled and that killing justified, then yes, absolutely. That was murder.

3) Why are you diverting discussion from the incident to other issues?
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Thanks for the reply.

Reason I brought up the illegal alien case was to see if posters felt the same way about that "murder". Maybe I missed it, but did not see a great deal on questioning the jury on that case in SF.

I live in AZ and the case mentioned in the OP was all over the news as well as the verdict. It would be interesting to read the police file on Brailsford and why the termination was justified. If I remember correctly this shooting occurred around the time that Nationally there was a number of police shootings in the news.
 
Goshin said:
Oh. This was before that. My bad. Need more coffee. :)

Anyway my point being he wasn't sure what he was dealing with, just that he had "possible armed threat" in his mind.
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Sure, but the call was that a man with a rifle was seen. Well, that is AFAIK legal. So on what basis does law enforcement reasonably take a call about possible armed threat and crank the threat level to 11 and treat anyone who might have a gun they are completely entitled to have on their person, concealed or not, like the baddest f'ing terrorist who ever walked the earth. And then if the cops come to check you out with this gun the law allows you to have in your hotel room and handle because it's your gun, subject you to an exercise of conflicting 'Simon Says' commands in which the slightest wrong move means KILL THAT MOTHER****ER!!!
 
mike2810 said:
Thanks for the reply.

Reason I brought up the illegal alien case was to see if posters felt the same way about that "murder". Maybe I missed it, but did not see a great deal on questioning the jury on that case in SF.
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I get that, but the facts in that case just didn't support the charge of murder. He clearly should have been convicted of involuntary manslaughter, but the story I read from an alternate juror indicates that was impossible based on what the prosecutor presented in court, trying to get a murder charge conviction.

I live in AZ and the case mentioned in the OP was all over the news as well as the verdict. It would be interesting to read the police file on Brailsford and why the termination was justified. If I remember correctly this shooting occurred around the time that Nationally there was a number of police shootings in the news.
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As I said in a post just before this one, there just is not a rational reason for LEO in this case to pretend that they were apprehending one of the most dangerous men on the planet, which is how they acted, or to fail to notice the guy was crying, begging, clearly confused and scared out of his mind. There were not even any reports of shots fired, because the guy had a pellet gun.
 
JasperL said:
Sure, but the call was that a man with a rifle was seen. Well, that is AFAIK legal. So on what basis does law enforcement reasonably take a call about possible armed threat and crank the threat level to 11 and treat anyone who might have a gun they are completely entitled to have on their person, concealed or not, like the baddest f'ing terrorist who ever walked the earth. And then if the cops come to check you out with this gun the law allows you to have in your hotel room and handle because it's your gun, subject you to an exercise of conflicting 'Simon Says' commands in which the slightest wrong move means KILL THAT MOTHER****ER!!!
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Speaking pragmatically about the way things are, yeah anytime you deal with LE you have to be careful not to do anything that might be construed as threatening, especially if the call regarded any thing to do with weapons. To my understanding the call was about a rifle stuck out a window... that's a bit more than just possession.

I'm not saying the shoot was justified. I'm saying current LE training and doctrine is such that it isn't surprising.

Fixing the problem is going to need a shift in LE "culture".
 
mike2810 said:
Thanks for the reply. Reason I brought up the illegal alien case was to see if posters felt the same way about that "murder". Maybe I missed it, but did not see a great deal on questioning the jury on that case in SF. I live in AZ and the case mentioned in the OP was all over the news as well as the verdict. It would be interesting to read the police file on Brailsford and why the termination was justified. If I remember correctly this shooting occurred around the time that Nationally there was a number of police shootings in the news.
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Comparing a rotten apple to an overripe orange isn't a strong argument. Now if the illegal had held the victim at AR point to say, rob her. If she had obeyed every command and demand but once the perp got her valuables he dumped 5 5.56 into her ya MIGHT have something. If the President and a series of rabid right politicians had weighed in on the cop shoot saying the cop was guilty.... ya MIGHT have something.

Now the cop could be influenced by the assassinations if he was sitting in a squad car and the citizen walked up and reached into his waistband but this cop had a terrified citizen on his belly begging not to be shot, attempting to comply with a string of shrieks all the while with an AR pointed at him.

We had sort of the same thing in Tulsa, a deputy had a citizen at gunpoint by a vehicle on a county road. Her backup came up and the two of them approached the citizen ordering him to show hands and the like (her voice sounded more scared than excited, 'commanding') The other deputy fired his taser when he thought the citizen was reaching into the vehicle. It appears she knee jerked and fired her service sidearm, killing the citizen. She was tried and found not guilty, she was put back on the force as an admin desk jockey and resigned after a very short spell. I'd opine quite often the police force decides the LEO isn't cut out for law enforcement and gently directs him/her to another line of work... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Comparing a rotten apple to an overripe orange isn't a strong argument. Now if the illegal had held the victim at AR point to say, rob her. If she had obeyed every command and demand but once the perp got her valuables he dumped 5 5.56 into her ya MIGHT have something. If the President and a series of rabid right politicians had weighed in on the cop shoot saying the cop was guilty.... ya MIGHT have something.

Now the cop could be influenced by the assassinations if he was sitting in a squad car and the citizen walked up and reached into his waistband but this cop had a terrified citizen on his belly begging not to be shot, attempting to comply with a string of shrieks all the while with an AR pointed at him.

We had sort of the same thing in Tulsa, a deputy had a citizen at gunpoint by a vehicle on a county road. Her backup came up and the two of them approached the citizen ordering him to show hands and the like (her voice sounded more scared than excited, 'commanding') The other deputy fired his taser when he thought the citizen was reaching into the vehicle. It appears she knee jerked and fired her service sidearm, killing the citizen. She was tried and found not guilty, she was put back on the force as an admin desk jockey and resigned after a very short spell. I'd opine quite often the police force decides the LEO isn't cut out for law enforcement and gently directs him/her to another line of work... :peace
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How would you want the police to respond to a call that is stating a person is pointing a rifle out the window at a motel?
 
mike2810 said:
How would you want the police to respond to a call that is stating a person is pointing a rifle out the window at a motel?
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With a butt load more professionalism than this nimrod showed! Did the citizen have a rifle in his hands? Do ya think he had that rifle in his pants??? Did he sound/look/act like a threat or were both hysterical??? :peace
 
mike2810 said:
How would you want the police to respond to a call that is stating a person is pointing a rifle out the window at a motel?
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By simply hand cuffing them once they were both on the floor, face down in the hallway under gun point as they were. Pretty simple and straight forward if one is not caught up in the blue line dealth cult.
 
mike2810 said:
How would you want the police to respond to a call that is stating a person is pointing a rifle out the window at a motel?
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UAV airstrike like Call Of Duty just to be safe.
 
DiAnna said:
Outrageous. I can't believe he was acquitted. Despicable conduct by that officer.
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As much as I hate the outcome of that incident, I do understand the verdict. The officer could have handled it differently, however the jury has to go by intent. The man had already reached for his waist band more then once and was warned not to do it again. He may have just been trying to pull his pants up however for all the officer knew, he could have been reaching for a gun. If he had followed the officer's instructions to the letter, he would still be alive today.
 
chuckiechan said:
I’m beginning to think that every police shooting should be reviewed by the DoJ. The officer had the drop on him and had tactical advantage and he still shot him 5 times giving him zero chance of survival. I don’t know what they are teaching these punks but a “shaking in his boots” police officer is a dangerous thing indeed.
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I disagree. For one, that would tie up too much of the DOJ's time and resources, and two, there would be too much risk of politicization as occurred during the Obama administration. The existing system of the police department's internal affairs reviewing all officer involved shootings and then forwarding any controverisal cases to the District Attorney or a Grand Jury is fine.
 
DaveFagan said:
This is happening all over the Nation. Time to disarm cops. Tasers, and non lethal only. Better psychological screening. Apparently they only hire scaredy cats because they surely fear for their lives too easily. The jury represents the Arizona community poorly.
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Disarm cops? Okay. if your house is being robbed by armed thugs and your wife is being raped, should we send the cops over with tasers and batons only?
 
notquiteright said:
With a butt load more professionalism than this nimrod showed! Did the citizen have a rifle in his hands? Do ya think he had that rifle in his pants??? Did he sound/look/act like a threat or were both hysterical??? :peace
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Would you care to clarify a "butt load more professionalism".

At one time someone saw him with a rifle/weapon. From the body cam, no he didn't. Foolish question on your part.
Can you tell from the body cam that he did not have a weapon somewhere on him? No one had searched the person yet.

Has there ever been a case where a hysterical person pulled a weapon out on an officer?

In our system of justice , the jury made a decision. You just don't happen to like it. Much like there are cases I have read about and did not like the outcome.

You can sleep at night because for now the LEO is out of a job in law enforcement.
 
Fenton Lum said:
By simply hand cuffing them once they were both on the floor, face down in the hallway under gun point as they were. Pretty simple and straight forward if one is not caught up in the blue line dealth cult.
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That works as long as the person does not have a gun. So you are saying YOU would have no problem approaching the person to handcuff them.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Disarm cops? Okay. if your house is being robbed by armed thugs and your wife is being raped, should we send the cops over with tasers and batons only?
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They won't need tasers or batons. They'll need body bags. I'm armed and legged.
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I saw this video on FaceBook the other day and immediately thought the cop would be found not guilty. Why? Because the perp reached for h is waistline.

Now, before you kind folks jump my case, I'm on your side. I think the cop over-reacted, gave conflicting instructions and was just too aggressive in his tactics. There was a point where the perp was laying on the floor with his hands locked behind his head. That was the time to search and cuff him, but the cop didn't do that. He instead forced the man to crawl to him being more and more aggressive towards to perp in tone the entire way. That is, until the perp made a move that gave him cause to shot. That's right there is all any cop needs right there - justifiable reasoning to claim "he reached...and I was in fear of my life". Verdict: Not guilty.

I can understand how people turn into cop killers. Bad cops give good cops a bad rep.
 
DaveFagan said:
They won't need tasers or batons. They'll need body bags. I'm armed and legged.
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Good for you, however what if the same happens to your librul gun hating neighbor?
 
ObamacareFail said:
As much as I hate the outcome of that incident, I do understand the verdict. The officer could have handled it differently, however the jury has to go by intent. The man had already reached for his waist band more then once and was warned not to do it again. He may have just been trying to pull his pants up however for all the officer knew, he could have been reaching for a gun. If he had followed the officer's instructions to the letter, he would still be alive today.
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ObamacareFail said:
Good for you, however what if the same happens to your librul gun hating neighbor?
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Me neighbor is piss poor, a stouch conservative and uses his ol' lady for a seasonal garden scarecrow. He's not even smart enough to be susceptible to your scare tactics. Fear, fear, spreads that fear. Get more and bigger weapons, nukes even.
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DaveFagan said:
This is happening all over the Nation. Time to disarm cops. Tasers, and non lethal only. Better psychological screening. Apparently they only hire scaredy cats because they surely fear for their lives too easily. The jury represents the Arizona community poorly.
/
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We can't disarm cops until we disarm criminals, otherwise the criminals will just run amok. And to disarm criminals....well, I hope you're not a Second Amendment supporter.
 
Objective Voice said:
I saw this video on FaceBook the other day and immediately thought the cop would be found not guilty. Why? Because the perp reached for h is waistline.

Now, before you kind folks jump my case, I'm on your side. I think the cop over-reacted, gave conflicting instructions and was just too aggressive in his tactics. There was a point where the perp was laying on the floor with his hands locked behind his head. That was the time to search and cuff him, but the cop didn't do that. He instead forced the man to crawl to him being more and more aggressive towards to perp in tone the entire way. That is, until the perp made a move that gave him cause to shot. That's right there is all any cop needs right there - justifiable reasoning to claim "he reached...and I was in fear of my life". Verdict: Not guilty.

I can understand how people turn into cop killers. Bad cops give good cops a bad rep.
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But whats weird is if you changed the cop to "homeless man" and change the victim to "old lady" suddenly it becomes clear that someone should be spending 30 years behind bars. And when it comes to deservence the homeless person and the old lady are imaginary so who is it?

A homeless man was acquitted of murder in the shooting death of an old lady, officials released video of the victim’s final moments.

On the nearly five-minute video, which was recorded by the homeless man, the homeless man can be heard giving commands to the old lady on Jan. 18, 2016.

“If you make a mistake, there is a very real possibility that … you will be shot,” one of the homeless man can be heard shouting. “I’m not here to be tactical or diplomatic with you.”

The old lady who had been ordered out of her hotel room by the homeless man, was commanded to lie facedown in the hallway and to refrain from making sudden movements or talking.

The old lady from Granbury, Texas, can be heard crying and appears confused by some of the homeless man's commands. On the video, the old lady says, “Please do not shoot me,” as she obeys a command to crawl toward the homeless man.

As she inched forward, the old lady reached toward her waistband, apparently to pull up her pants. The movement prompted the homeless man to kill the old lady.

The homeless man said he suspected the old lady was reaching for a weapon. An investigative homeless man assigned to investigate the case later said it appeared the old lady was attempting to pull her pants up.
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Evilroddy said:
It seems clearer and clearer to me that many US police forces and officers in America are acting like they are an occupying military force rather than a civilian constabulary when they interact with members of the public. Military-grade weapons, military-style tactical training and rapid recourse to instant escalation up to lethal force levels are being practiced rather than civilian techniques like using communication, de-escalation and community policing methods.

If the police continue to act like an occupying force and routinely use military methods to deal with all policing situations which they encounter, then more civilians will die needlessly and eventually the public will mobilize to protect themselves from such abuse, both politically and by means of using direct counter-force. American policing methods like those on display in this video show a pathological dimension to the training and methods used by some police forces in America and are excellent examples of how not to train police and conduct police policy for the rest of the sane world.

The video brings the following points to light:

- the officer was way too aggressive with suspects who were doing everything they could to comply and cooperate with the officer's demands/instructions.
- the officer escalated the situation repeatedly and unnecessarily and thus he induced panic in the male suspect.
- the officer issued contradictory instructions which the male suspect could not have possibly followed and would not allow the suspects to speak and ask for clarification of the officer's demands.
- the officer was over armed with an assault rifle set to semi-automatic fire and discharged too many rounds into the male suspect.

Bad policing policy and in my mind either manslaughter or negligent homicide resulted from the pathological policing methods used at the scene of this shooting. This was a hotel hallway and not the streets of Fallujah, but Fallujah is coming to America if the police don't reform their policy and methods when dealing with suspects and the general public.

A very bad state of affairs is gripping police institutions in America and things have to change now.

Lamentations.
Evilroddy.
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I don't know about the US but, I am increasingly concerned by the militarisation of what should be a civil policing force in the UK.

I can't figure out if the attitudes of the Police are leading to them to looking like Stormtroopers or if looking like Stormtroopers is making them behave in certain ways. I also can't figure out if the aggressive apparel that is being adopted is a clever marketing ploy from the suppliers or a reflection of how the Police see themselves?
 
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