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Former GOP chairman found guilty of fraud for signing ex-wife's ballot

The problem with allowing use of many forms of non-exclusive IDs is that it allows multiple voting or voting outside of your primary residence state/district. Obviously folks can have utility bills and/or paychecks in several states/districts so that would allow them to vote in each or select the one that will likely have the most impact. For example, if I know that my district will go "R" or "D" then why not vote in a more purple district or two?

Wouldn't you still be registered in only 1 district though? Is the system is so hap-hazard that there's no automatic red flags when someone already registered in district A tries to also register in district B? If I own homes in 2 different districts/states, aren't there already measures in place preventing me from voting twice?
 
The problem with allowing use of many forms of non-exclusive IDs is that it allows multiple voting or voting outside of your primary residence state/district. Obviously folks can have utility bills and/or paychecks in several states/districts so that would allow them to vote in each or select the one that will likely have the most impact. For example, if I know that my district will go "R" or "D" then why not vote in a more purple district or two?

1) What allows for multiple voting is multiple registrations, almost certainly in multiple states. Voter ID doesn't address that problem.

2) I have a passport that can be used as ID in 50 locations if I want because AFAIK a passport works everywhere and has no address on it.

3) The voter ID rules don't typically (or at all to my knowledge) require that you confirm your address with your ID because of the serious problem it poses to people who move a lot - aka the poor.

4) Sure, you can vote many times in many districts, and you leave a permanent record of your felony and risk the kinds of problems this moron in the OP faces for voter fraud. And the problem with that is you're committing a felony, risking jail, for the approximately 0.0% chance that your vote will swing the election.

5) Every single case I've seen of multiple voting has involved absentee ballots or vote by mail, and voter ID at the polls obviously cannot solve a problem of mail in votes, which don't require photo ID.
 
Weird. I've been told repeatedly that voter fraud doesn't actually exist.

Well, then they'd be wrong. There were an unbeliveably huge number of instances of voter fraud found by the Bush DOJ between 2003-2007. The number was eighty mi....



..... er, sorry, nevermind. About 120 people, leading to 87 convictions, quite a lot of which were in local elections, not national elections.

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - The New York Times






Enough with the routine. There really isn't much at all, and it doesn't even take half a brain cell to work out why: only the very tiniest number of people are actually stupid enough to risk 5-10 years in "federal pound me in the **** prison" just to cast one out of tens of millions of votes in a national election.

Anyone actually charged should probably be acquitted by reason of hopeless stupidity.
 
Wouldn't you still be registered in only 1 district though? Is the system is so hap-hazard that there's no automatic red flags when someone already registered in district A tries to also register in district B? If I own homes in 2 different districts/states, aren't there already measures in place preventing me from voting twice?

Do you know of any? There are no measures, that I am aware of, to compare names in each district/state against all others. Even if there were how do would you know if Sam Smith in Idaho is in any way connected to Sam R. Smith in New Jersey or Sam Q. Smith in Nevada? If they all used valid, state issued photo IDs then a simple look at the photo (available online) would suffice. As I said before, you do not even have to vote twice to make your vote count more - simply select a purple district over solid red or blue district.
 
Weird. I've been told repeatedly that voter fraud doesn't actually exist.

No you haven't. You've been told it's incredibly rare.
 
Still something worth being prevented though, right? I mean, you're sure outraged by the old GOP guy and want him to do as much hard time as possible. It's a serious thing.

No, I think the woman 6th grade education made a stupid mistake, she thought she was legally able to vote. A deal was offered but refused by Tarrant County criminal district attorney, Sharen Wilson, to make political points.
I was pissed when i say the differences. Calmer know
Sentence 8 yrs, deportation was BS, same with the Republican facing a few years in jail.
If people are going to jail, same sentences.
With such severe sentencing is it any wonder why the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
 
Do you know of any? There are no measures, that I am aware of, to compare names in each district/state against all others. Even if there were how do would you know if Sam Smith in Idaho is in any way connected to Sam R. Smith in New Jersey or Sam Q. Smith in Nevada? If they all used valid, state issued photo IDs then a simple look at the photo (available online) would suffice. As I said before, you do not even have to vote twice to make your vote count more - simply select a purple district over solid red or blue district.

OK, so I use my passport. No address on it. I can vote anywhere, no problem.

And if you have property in that purple and that solid red district, you can likely register to vote in both by claiming it as your 'home.' And if you don't have a DL with that address, no problem, just request an absentee ballot and vote that way. Those are felonies - i.e. to have a permanent home in NY, but vote from your 2nd home in the NC mountains - but ID isn't what stops that from happening.

The bottom line is:

Voter ID has ONE role and only ONE role - to satisfy the poll worker that you are the same person registered and who the state has already determined is qualified to vote, in that district. It's not designed to and cannot prove that you are registered in the right district, or to stop you from registering and voting in several districts. It ONLY says - yes, I am JasperL, and right there in your little book it says JasperL is properly registered, so give me a ballot.
 
Weird. I've been told repeatedly that voter fraud doesn't actually exist.

When your "proof" that it does is an occasional case here (Colorado) and there (Texas) than its actually proof that it doesn't exist (to the extent that its a problem we need to worry about, anyway).

Snake bites also happen, and they can kill you. But, there have been less than 100 documented cases of snake bite deaths in US history (had one in Colorado two months ago), but that doesn't mean snakebites are a problem we should worry about.

Well illustrated in this example: the guy faces a $5000 fine and six months in jail for what gain? One more more vote for his favorite Republican. Really? Why would anyone in their right mind take on such a great risk for so little gain? They wouldn't. It's not logical. No one is going to commit true voter fraud in the scale that it ever makes a difference.

This is example of why the concept of voter fraud as a problem worthy of attention is a complete hoax.

(third time today someone gleemed on to evidence that they thought proved A, when it really proved B .... you want evidence to sell your point, it has to be more than an anecdote).
 
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OK, so I use my passport. No address on it. I can vote anywhere, no problem.

And if you have property in that purple and that solid red district, you can likely register to vote in both by claiming it as your 'home.' And if you don't have a DL with that address, no problem, just request an absentee ballot and vote that way. Those are felonies - i.e. to have a permanent home in NY, but vote from your 2nd home in the NC mountains - but ID isn't what stops that from happening.

The bottom line is:

Voter ID has ONE role and only ONE role - to satisfy the poll worker that you are the same person registered and who the state has already determined is qualified to vote, in that district. It's not designed to and cannot prove that you are registered in the right district, or to stop you from registering and voting in several districts. It ONLY says - yes, I am JasperL, and right there in your little book it says JasperL is properly registered, so give me a ballot.

No, voter ID has one role: voter suppression. This is a verdict that courts consistently reach.

How Voter ID Laws Are Being Used to Disenfranchise Minorities and the Poor - The Atlantic
Voting Rights and Discrimination FAQ - FindLaw
The New York Times > Page Not Found llaws/?_r=0
http://pages.ucsd.edu/~zhajnal/page5/documents/voterIDhajnaletal.pdf
https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/separating-fact-fiction-voter-id-statistics
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/research-and-publications-voter-id
http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work/TX_voter_ID_decision_100914.pdf
https://www.texastribune.org/2016/07/20/appeals-court-rules-texas-voter-id/
http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/new-study-says-voter-id-laws-suppress-votes/?rf=1
http://www.americanbar.org/publicat...ter_10_voter_id_a_form_voter_suppression.html

Voter ID is a solution for which there is no known problem. it is example of Republicans being in favor of unnecessary regulation. To suggest it does more is either being ignorant or disingenuous....take your pick.
 
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My wife usually has me fill out her ballot. We are usually in agreement politically. However, she signs it.
 
OK, so I use my passport. No address on it. I can vote anywhere, no problem.

And if you have property in that purple and that solid red district, you can likely register to vote in both by claiming it as your 'home.' And if you don't have a DL with that address, no problem, just request an absentee ballot and vote that way. Those are felonies - i.e. to have a permanent home in NY, but vote from your 2nd home in the NC mountains - but ID isn't what stops that from happening.

The bottom line is:

Voter ID has ONE role and only ONE role - to satisfy the poll worker that you are the same person registered and who the state has already determined is qualified to vote, in that district. It's not designed to and cannot prove that you are registered in the right district, or to stop you from registering and voting in several districts. It ONLY says - yes, I am JasperL, and right there in your little book it says JasperL is properly registered, so give me a ballot.

How about a voter ID law that requires a valid, state issued, photo ID bearing the same name and address which was used to register to vote?
 

I agree in general, but I think we're talking about two things really. I don't have a problem with showing "ID" - something that demonstrates that the guy in front of the lady handing out ballots is JasperL. The issue is what kind of ID should be required. States with broad categories of acceptable ID really don't impose a large burden on the poor, etc. because nearly everyone has "ID" - a check stub from employer, benefits card, SS card, utility bill, or even a voter registration card you got mailed to you after registering.

The issues and what the courts have dealt with are the very strict, state-issued photo ID rules that IMO deliberately omit from the list IDs likely to be held by poor people who do not drive a car. And the evidence seems clear to me the key FEATURE of those rules is to require a bunch of likely Democrats to get a new ID to vote, which will predictably effectively throw many thousands of those voters off the rolls. It's deliberate voter suppression, and the ELIGIBLE voters prevented from voting will outnumber fraud prevented by 1000-1 or 10,000-1 or 100,000-1.
 
How about a voter ID law that requires a valid, state issued, photo ID bearing the same name and address which was used to register to vote?

But what you're doing is asking ID to serve the role of voter registration. ID is to prove ID.

And what problem are you trying to solve? If it's impersonation fraud - JohnQ shows up and requests JasperL's ballot - the address doesn't solve that problem, requiring an ID that says "JasperL" solves it. So you're trying to solve some OTHER problem. Fine, which one and how big is that problem and how will matching addresses help, given the availability of absentee ballots and presumably legitimate addresses?

Finally what NONE of the people supporting "voter ID" laws ever even nod to is the trade-off. What we want is for 1) all eligible and registered voters to be able to vote, and 2) to prevent ineligible voters from voting. But the problem is those pushing "voter ID" laws completely IGNORE point 1). It's never discussed or the numbers considered at all.

And if to solve ineligible voters problem, and there are 3 of them in Tennessee per year, you effectively kick 10,000 eligible citizens off the rolls, is that a good policy change? To me, obviously not, unless the POINT is to reduce voting rolls, which of course is the point of these new rules.
 
People have been whining about the voter ID laws for the last 20 years.
Isn't strange that over a 20 year period they could not get a ID?
It's one excuse after another why they can not get an ID.
All time and money spent fighting voter ID law should be spent helping
get their ID so they can vote.
 
But what you're doing is asking ID to serve the role of voter registration. ID is to prove ID.

And what problem are you trying to solve? If it's impersonation fraud - JohnQ shows up and requests JasperL's ballot - the address doesn't solve that problem, requiring an ID that says "JasperL" solves it. So you're trying to solve some OTHER problem. Fine, which one and how big is that problem and how will matching addresses help, given the availability of absentee ballots and presumably legitimate addresses?

Finally what NONE of the people supporting "voter ID" laws ever even nod to is the trade-off. What we want is for 1) all eligible and registered voters to be able to vote, and 2) to prevent ineligible voters from voting. But the problem is those pushing "voter ID" laws completely IGNORE point 1). It's never discussed or the numbers considered at all.

And if to solve ineligible voters problem, and there are 3 of them in Tennessee per year, you effectively kick 10,000 eligible citizens off the rolls, is that a good policy change? To me, obviously not, unless the POINT is to reduce voting rolls, which of course is the point of these new rules.

Asking for a valid, state issued, photo ID is to prove that you are the registered voter and that you still reside at the registered address. If that form of ID was not required to initially register then why bother to ask for it to vote?
 
Asking for a valid, state issued, photo ID is to prove that you are the registered voter and that you still reside at the registered address. If that form of ID was not required to initially register then why bother to ask for it to vote?

But it doesn't prove you still live there. Say I move from apartment complex A to B, which I did every year in college, sometimes twice in a year, or more because I had a different summer address. When I first started work, I moved to Atlanta, had one address for 4 months, then moved, then again in a year because my roommates moved out. In all those cases I did NOT get new DLs each time because it was too much bother, and in 6 months or a year it would change. If you required me to vote where I was registered when I got to Atlanta, then I'd just go to my old voting place using my old address. It's BETTER if I change my registration and use my totally valid DL (with old address) to prove ID, because I'm voting in the correct district.

Second, this works pretty well for middle class people with cars and money, but basically disenfranchises poor people with no fixed address or addresses that change frequently. If you want them not voting, this will do it! But say that's what you want - be honest about the effect of it.

And the FACT is that every 'photo ID' law I've seen allows for passports, because there is nothing better to prove ID and citizenship. Well it just does NOT have an address. So you're talking about voting ID regimes that don't exist. And shouldn't because ID is to prove ID, not anything else. That's what voter registration does.
 
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