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Pelosi: GOP tax proposal 'the worst bill in the history' of Congress

MaggieD said:
Hyperbole, thy name is Pelosi. Let’s finally just send her butt home. Anybody got a broom?
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Marco Montana said:
This is what I know.... I am in the $50-70k range I pay 25% and after deductions I end up in the 13% range. I have for the last 9 years not been able to claim my Son as hes over 18 and moved out. The most deductions I can muster usually are in the $9,000 - $10,000 range.



Trumps plan taxes me at 25% ~ Same

Trumps plan gives me a based Deduction of $12,000 ~ Which already gives me $2000 more back in my refund which is a HUGE help for my family!
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If you do not itemize, have no children, pay not alimony .... the plan will likely work for you.

If you do have any of the following (the more of which, the worse): children (without child care), itemize (especially if you pay for health insurance or have medical deductions, pay a mortgage, live in a state with income taxes, have job related expenses), pay alimony and/or have kids in college, you could see a very large increase in your taxes with this bill.
 
upsideguy said:
If you do not itemize, have no children, pay not alimony .... the plan will likely work for you.

If you do have any of the following (the more of which, the worse): children (without child care), itemize (especially if you pay for health insurance or have medical deductions, pay a mortgage, live in a state with income taxes, have job related expenses), pay alimony and/or have kids in college, you could see a very large increase in your taxes with this bill.
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I pay a Mortgage, Property Taxes, State Tax, Federal Tax, pay for my Insurance, use an FSA, my son is 27, I have only donations for deductions.
 
Marco Montana said:
I pay a Mortgage, Property Taxes, State Tax, Federal Tax, pay for my Insurance, use an FSA, my son is 27, I have only donations for deductions.
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If you barely itemized than the increase in the standard deduction will be greater than the loss of the exemptions (and marginal itemized deductions), so you may have a better situation.

If you had three or four dependents (you, wife and two kids not getting child care), however, you probably would be worse off as the loss of those exemptions would not be offset by the increase in the standard deduction.

One of the biggest changes, which gets very little press, is that the exemptions ($4100 per dependent) have been eliminated. The theoretical offset to this is the increase in the standard deduction... if you have three dependents (you, wife and one child)... it is an offset (except you lose the deductions)... one more dependent and you are loser.
 
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zimmer said:
1. When Socialists hate legistaltion, you know it’s good for the country.

2. Pelosi presided over the worst legistlation in modern history. The Careless Affordable Care Act (CACA).

She dropped the all-time bad one liner for bad legistaltion too... “You have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it.” Like it’s Christmas or something. Well Nancy, it’s been passed, it’s been lived, and it’s the biggest turd of legistlation we’ve seen in our lifetimes.

Soon... it looks like it will be gutted... in the tax bill... ROTFLOL :cool:

Those of us pro-Americans love it when the Socialists of America Partei (SAPs) roll out Pelosi, Schumer or Schiff. Just the faces you want telling lies to the American people.
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Pelosi is right on the money.

The billionaires are selling you a bill of goods, widening the gap further between the rich and all others. It's been going on for years, since the '80s, merely disguised in different methodology.

For Wealthy, Tax Cuts Since 1980s Have Been Gain-Gain - The New York Times
While rates for all American taxpayers have fallen to near 50-year lows, the wealthy have reaped the most savings from the changes because they derive a larger proportion of their income from investments.

Between 1985 and 2008, the wealthiest 400 Americans saw the percentage of their income paid in federal income taxes drop from 29 percent to 18 percent, according to data from the Internal Revenue Service.
....
One outspoken critic has been Warren E. Buffett, a billionaire himself. Mr. Buffett stirred debate about the issue last year when he wrote an opinion article for The New York Times stating that the low rates for investment income had allowed him to pay only about 17 percent of his income in federal taxes, less than the effective rate paid by his secretary or any of the other 19 workers in his office.
 
zimmer said:
1. When Socialists hate legistaltion, you know it’s good for the country.

2. Pelosi presided over the worst legistlation in modern history. The Careless Affordable Care Act (CACA).

She dropped the all-time bad one liner for bad legistaltion too... “You have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it.” Like it’s Christmas or something. Well Nancy, it’s been passed, it’s been lived, and it’s the biggest turd of legistlation we’ve seen in our lifetimes.

Soon... it looks like it will be gutted... in the tax bill... ROTFLOL :cool:

Those of us pro-Americans love it when the Socialists of America Partei (SAPs) roll out Pelosi, Schumer or Schiff. Just the faces you want telling lies to the American people.
Click to expand...

Pelosi is right on the money.

The billionaires are selling you a bill of goods, widening the gap further between the rich and all others. It's been going on for years, since the '80s, merely disguised in different methodology.

For Wealthy, Tax Cuts Since 1980s Have Been Gain-Gain - The New York Times
While rates for all American taxpayers have fallen to near 50-year lows, the wealthy have reaped the most savings from the changes because they derive a larger proportion of their income from investments.

Between 1985 and 2008, the wealthiest 400 Americans saw the percentage of their income paid in federal income taxes drop from 29 percent to 18 percent, according to data from the Internal Revenue Service.
....
One outspoken critic has been Warren E. Buffett, a billionaire himself. Mr. Buffett stirred debate about the issue last year when he wrote an opinion article for The New York Times stating that the low rates for investment income had allowed him to pay only about 17 percent of his income in federal taxes, less than the effective rate paid by his secretary or any of the other 19 workers in his office.
 
Marco Montana said:
What? Surly you must be a Russian bot right? No way you could actually like the Tax plan omg...... lol
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Not all of it, no. However I can't remember the last time I like the whole tax bill as it was rolled out by either party.
 
ludin said:
Small business owners are going to see a good decrease in taxes making it easier for them to not only operate but expand.
Getting rid of the mandatory insurance clause you can hire more people without fear of insurance costs.
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A nice prospect.
 
Oborosen said:
Not all of it, no. However I can't remember the last time I like the whole tax bill as it was rolled out by either party.
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What is it that you like, specifically? The reality is that this bill is far more generous to the rich, golf course owners and real estate corps, than either Reagan's or Bush's tax cuts. Do you own a golf course, a private jet or are in the real estate business?

I imagine it's hard to accept that Trump, who promised he was going raise taxes on the rich, get rid of the carried interest rule that hedge fund billionaires enjoy, get rid of loophole, etc., once again was the king of the double-cross. This time, he double-crossed the voters that not only expected those changes but raised THEIR taxes too. So, the rich get a tax reduction and it's paid for by the middle-class, including those down-on-their-luck Trump suckers voters and the hedge fund billionaires keep the carried interest rule.
 
MTAtech said:
What is it that you like, specifically? The reality is that this bill is far more generous to the rich, golf course owners and real estate corps, than either Reagan's or Bush's tax cuts. Do you own a golf course, a private jet or are in the real estate business?

I imagine it's hard to accept that Trump, who promised he was going raise taxes on the rich, get rid of the carried interest rule that hedge fund billionaires enjoy, get rid of loophole, etc., once again was the king of the double-cross. This time, he double-crossed the voters that not only expected those changes but raised THEIR taxes too. So, the rich get a tax reduction and it's paid for by the middle-class, including those down-on-their-luck Trump suckers voters and the hedge fund billionaires keep the carried interest rule.
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I have my own appraisal business, which for the last few years I have been forced to downsize and run out of my own home. Now with the changes coming along I may actually be able to move back into an actual building and get to having a few workers to handle more business.

I was nearly charged out of business for having only three people on my payroll and now I think I can get back to actually having my own business again.
 
Oborosen said:
I have my own appraisal business, which for the last few years I have been forced to downsize and run out of my own home. Now with the changes coming along I may actually be able to move back into an actual building and get to having a few workers to handle more business.

I was nearly charged out of business for having only three people on my payroll and now I think I can get back to actually having my own business again.
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Your the kind of business we need to promote.

Guys that want to go from start up to 5-10 then 20 people.
That is what grows the economy. Corporations have saturation levels.
 
MTAtech said:
What is it that you like, specifically? The reality is that this bill is far more generous to the rich, golf course owners and real estate corps, than either Reagan's or Bush's tax cuts. Do you own a golf course, a private jet or are in the real estate business?

I imagine it's hard to accept that Trump, who promised he was going raise taxes on the rich, get rid of the carried interest rule that hedge fund billionaires enjoy, get rid of loophole, etc., once again was the king of the double-cross. This time, he double-crossed the voters that not only expected those changes but raised THEIR taxes too. So, the rich get a tax reduction and it's paid for by the middle-class, including those down-on-their-luck Trump suckers voters and the hedge fund billionaires keep the carried interest rule.
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Fact check has proven your lies wrong why do you keep spouting them.
About 80% of middle or low income people will see a tax break.

There is only about 15% of upper middle income people that will see and increase but that was under the house bill
Not the senate.
 
zimmer said:
1. When Socialists hate legistaltion, you know it’s good for the country.

2. Pelosi presided over the worst legistlation in modern history. The Careless Affordable Care Act (CACA).

She dropped the all-time bad one liner for bad legistaltion too... “You have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it.” Like it’s Christmas or something. Well Nancy, it’s been passed, it’s been lived, and it’s the biggest turd of legistlation we’ve seen in our lifetimes.

Soon... it looks like it will be gutted... in the tax bill... ROTFLOL :cool:

Those of us pro-Americans love it when the Socialists of America Partei (SAPs) roll out Pelosi, Schumer or Schiff. Just the faces you want telling lies to the American people.
Click to expand...

You did the same thing she did, though, saying the ACA was the worst ever.
 
ludin said:
Fact check has proven your lies wrong why do you keep spouting them.
About 80% of middle or low income people will see a tax break.

There is only about 15% of upper middle income people that will see and increase but that was under the house bill
Not the senate.
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You made the same assertion yesterday and replied to that, citing that your assertion was false.

Let's try this again.

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Overall, the majority of Americans -- 62 percent -- would get a tax cut of at least $100 in 2019, according to JCT. The remaining 38 percent would either pay about the same in taxes as they do now or get a tax hike.

But by 2027, just 16 percent of Americans would get a tax cut of at least $100. The "winners" fall dramatically because the tax cuts for individuals go away in 2026 in the Senate GOP plan. Republicans argue that those tax cuts are likely to be extended by a future Congress.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...te-gop-plan/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.768c884824d9
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Oborosen said:
I have my own appraisal business, which for the last few years I have been forced to downsize and run out of my own home. Now with the changes coming along I may actually be able to move back into an actual building and get to having a few workers to handle more business.

I was nearly charged out of business for having only three people on my payroll and now I think I can get back to actually having my own business again.
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Tax reform 2017: 4 red flags in the GOP tax bills - Dec. 8, 2017

Red flag #3: Could saddle some corporations with a higher bill

The biggest unintended consequences so far, which lawmakers may try to fix in their final negotiations, are caused by the Senate bill keeping the corporate AMT.
GOP senators were trying to provide more revenue to pay for other last-minute changes. Yet in doing so, they effectively subverted the purpose of the corporate AMT, which is supposed to ensure that corporations don't take so many tax breaks that they pay no tax at all. Under the tax bill, the regular corporate rate is slashed to 20%, identical to the corporate AMT rate.
The last-minute switch also would render key tax incentives for corporations moot because they're not allowed to be taken under the AMT. One of them -- the research and development credit -- is intended to spur innovation.
The AMT change, combined with other provisions in the tax bill that curb valuable business tax breaks, means many corporations -- surprise! -- could face a tax hike. For instance, the CEO of coal company Murray Energy estimates his company would pay $60 million more a year.
Preserving the AMT also could undermine the structure of international tax reforms in the bills, according to a report by tax scholars, practitioners and analysts.
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Oborosen said:
I have my own appraisal business, which for the last few years I have been forced to downsize and run out of my own home. Now with the changes coming along I may actually be able to move back into an actual building and get to having a few workers to handle more business.

I was nearly charged out of business for having only three people on my payroll and now I think I can get back to actually having my own business again.
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Great. Please tell us what specific proposed changes in tax code make that possible....
 
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) declared unequivocally on Monday that the GOP tax overhaul is the worst legislation ever considered by Congress.
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I rarely agree with Pelosi, but she is correct in this regard. The GOP tax legislation helps the middle class only minimally (and expires in 2026) and also swells the deficit significantly (~$1.09 trillion).

There will be perhaps a brief [2 year] increase in economic growth, then retrograde numbers and undoubtedly a recession (maybe severe).

It also turns Obamacare into Trumpcare (ends the ACA mandate) which will see insurance premium costs increase a minimum of 10% annually with 13 million less insured.

As some GOP Congressional members have openly stated, their donors told them what to do if they wanted continued campaign/re-election financial support.
 
ludin said:
Your the kind of business we need to promote.

Guys that want to go from start up to 5-10 then 20 people.
That is what grows the economy. Corporations have saturation levels.
Click to expand...

Got to put this art degree to use somehow at least.
 
upsideguy said:
Great. Please tell us what specific proposed changes in tax code make that possible....
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No tax code for hiring workers. I am going to have a bit more money to support having them now.
It was the rates that hurt us in the past, with barely anything to do with having workers that changed from the last plan.

Regulations brought on by the SBREFA was what tried to strangle most of us.
 
Oborosen said:
No tax code for hiring workers. I am going to have a bit more money to support having them now.
It was the rates that hurt us in the past, with barely anything to do with having workers that changed from the last plan.

Regulations brought on by the SBREFA was what tried to strangle most of us.
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Not sure what "no tax code for hiring workers" means. AFAIK, nothing in the new law changes your tax or other liabilities for employees.

I'm also curious what regulations you're referring to. Something affecting appraisers or small business in general?
 
I do not see where this bill forcibly removes indigenous populations and forces them at bayonet point to barren plains in some far off territory.
I think that bill was the "worst bill in the history" of Congress.
If it never made it to be a bill, I will concede that fact. I think it was a bill though.
 
Never a better endorsement than Nancy Pellegra scorn.
 
The GOP Senate tax bill analyzed by the TPC is 'revenue-negative' to the tune of $1.09 trillion.
 
JasperL said:
Not sure what "no tax code for hiring workers" means. AFAIK, nothing in the new law changes your tax or other liabilities for employees.

I'm also curious what regulations you're referring to. Something affecting appraisers or small business in general?
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I am not talking about a tax code, I am talking about regulations that have been rolled back. Or gotten rid of in general.
 
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