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A Trump-branded Panama City tower has connections to organized crime: report

MovingPictures said:
I'll be honest, the wording that states "between the Russian government" would put some of this stuff out of the original scope. However, as I stated before, Mueller can ask for expansions based on anything from publicly available records, to witness testimony. That's how Starr found his way to Lewinsky's dress.

It appears to have already been granted a few times because Manafort and Flynn wouldn't be under the gun otherwise.
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Not to get mired in detail, but I see the next two clases after the first as greatly expanding the investigation without requiring further authorization.

Those two being,

"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"

and,

"28 C.F.R. 600.4"


The first seem to allow Mueller to pursue any crime that falls out of the investigation.

And 600.4 seems to gives him authority to prosecute related crimes, or refer related issues to prosecution.

Now I'm no lawyer, but my reading of the directive seems to be wider than yours. I do know that if a prosecutor uncovers a crime outside of his jurisdiction, he is apparently bound to refer it to the proper jurisdiction to evaluate for prosecution.
 
washunut said:
Trump was not a real estate developer. I am no Trump fan. But I really dislike people who don't want to debate with truthful statements.

We are done.
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uh What was untruthful in what I said? You said Manafort was not a real estate developer as if to say it was OK to do these things because Trump was making real estate deals. He wasn't though, he just makes deals to put his name on things. He doesn't actually own most of these properties.
 
Chomsky said:
Not to get mired in detail, but I see the next two clases after the first as greatly expanding the investigation without requiring further authorization.

Those two being,

"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"

and,

"28 C.F.R. 600.4"


The first seem to allow Mueller to pursue any crime that falls out of the investigation.

And 600.4 seems to gives him authority to prosecute related crimes, or refer related issues to prosecution.

Now I'm no lawyer, but my reading of the directive seems to be wider than yours. I do know that if a prosecutor uncovers a crime outside of his jurisdiction, he is apparently bound to refer it to the proper jurisdiction to evaluate for prosecution.
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I'm no lawyer either, but I think we can safely assume that not only has Mueller's probe grown, it's going to continue to grow.

Two thing that might very well trigger a massive expansion are the Trump real estate ventures that Sater and Cohen went on behind the scenes, and Kushner's real estate deals with a Russian money launderer. That could open a probe into a Disney World of conflicts of interest and emolument violations.
 
Chomsky said:
I wouldn't necessarily accept those odds.

I thought like you at first. But as this investigation builds and we find out more, I think it's becoming possible the Trump campaign may have entered criminal territory. Donald Jr.'s attempting to meet with Russians, and now his revealed communications with WikiLeaks, is extremely alarming. We have no idea what is left to uncover that the Trump's are still hiding, but can see Mueller just subpoenaed a huge cache of documents the administration withheld when fulfilling Mueller's original document request. Then there's also the possibility of obstruction and cover-up.

If Mueller only uncovers criminal activity from before the campaign, then Trump will save his presidency. But if that were to occur, when he returns to being a citizen he of course will have to answer those charges not beyond the statute of limitation. Those in his circle would not have his presidential exception, and as we saw with the various recent indictments they are liable to immediate prosecution.
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It is always possible assuming that you can trust the media accounts. I just don't think the Administration is behaving as if there is anything wrong. No stalling on producing documentation. No refusal to give testimony. They just aren't acting like guilty people.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Are you suggesting the above somehow exonerates Trump?
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Nope. Just pointing out the strong possibility of yet another tempest in a teapot via a media that takes anything they can find and blows it all out of proportion or completely and dishonestly distorts what happened.
 
Chomsky said:
If not criminally involved - and he possibly is - I believe we're going to find Trump is thoroughly surrounded by and involved with Russians and the Russian state.

(even if the involvement is made to look as if through proxy)
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It won't be long before Moscow tells him to "come in" Do you suppose they would send a plane to pick him?
 
upsideguy said:
It won't be long before Moscow tells him to "come in" Do you suppose they would send a plane to pick him?
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I wouldn't doubt Manafort considered that option.

(though right now, I suspect he is hoping for the Trump pardon option)
 
AlbqOwl said:
It is always possible assuming that you can trust the media accounts. I just don't think the Administration is behaving as if there is anything wrong. No stalling on producing documentation. No refusal to give testimony. They just aren't acting like guilty people.
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Mueller was forced to subpoena the Trump campaign today. It is likely he didn't they cooperated and produced everything.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mueller-subpoenas-trump-campaign-russia-documents-n821776
 
Chomsky said:
Yep, I'm with you 100% here.

Trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, wealthy and privileged. Through his position and under the tutelage of his father, he was subject to a skewed value system. We really are the sons of our fathers, and Trump was formed by him in that isolated & privileged cocoon.

So seeing laws and regulations as something to be worked around, is perfectly normal to him. And now, it may cause his undoing. Or at least, one can hope.

I say "one can hope", because of the many things I dislike of him, his lack of respect for our democratic institutions and lack of respect for law & the Constitution, are amongst the things I dislike most.
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FYI, lack of respect for the US Constitution came along way before Trump took office. George Bush is famously quoted as saying it was just a piece of paper, and governed accordingly, openly admitting his disdain for FISA and other statutes. Dubya and Congress gave us, unsolicited, the patriot act and its assault on the Fourth Amendment.


Barack loved the notion of Unitary Executive, and he and his congress brought us NDAA amendments and their nullification of Habeas, the so-called Great Writ.

Trump is a domestic enemy of the Constitution, but he follows a trend set by his predecessors.
 
MovingPictures said:
Special counsels take an extensive amount of time to complete their investigations historically speaking.

Watergate took four years, Iran-Contra took seven years, Whitewater took several turns and lasted over six years, Plame lasted four years.

With all the corruption and different rabbit holes that are publicly apparent in the Trump WH, Mueller will likely last at least three years without interference.
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But to hear some tell it, the fact that we haven't seen a conviction within a few weeks proves it's a "nothing burger".
 
RetiredUSN said:
Big freaking whooooop!

Everything in Panama is as corrupt now as when I was there a 1/2 dozen times in the 80's.
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...except that all the "big freaking whooooops" around Donald Trump and is minion of Russian conduits (political and financial) will likely add up to a very BIG freaking whooooop that will probably run him from office.... so, you can dismiss "each", but you will likely be unable to dismiss "all" It takes many spots to make a pattern.
 
upsideguy said:
...except that all the "big freaking whooooops" around Donald Trump and is minion of Russian conduits (political and financial) will likely add up to a very BIG freaking whooooop that will probably run him from office.... so, you can dismiss "each", but you will likely be unable to dismiss "all" It takes many spots to make a pattern.
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The words likely and probably won't get you a conviction.

Sounds more like hoping to me.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Big freaking whooooop!

Everything in Panama is as corrupt now as when I was there a 1/2 dozen times in the 80's.
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I guess then you'll stop jacking off to Hillary Clinton + Corruption every time you google search it?

I have yet to come across a Trump supporter who can properly explain why Trump's corruption doesn't matter while Hillary deserves to get burned at the stake.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
But...But...Trump doesn't know any Russians.



https://www.salon.com/2017/11/17/a-...er-has-connections-to-organized-crime-report/
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Salon? That's the best you can do, a rabid liberally biased news source? Would you take anything from FOX News as fact? I don't read garbage from Salon and it just goes to show the level of bias you have by reading garbage like that in the first place. By the way, before you attack me, I do not watch FOX News, but I think you would actually like your buddy Shephard Smith.

I do understand your need though since all of Trump's other so called Russian connections have not worked out, that you now have to resort to Puerto Rican Russians. Funny though how lefties criticize Trump's response to the PR hurricane while presenting evidence that Trump actually has PR connections.
 
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Moderate Right said:
Salon? That's the best you can do, a rabid liberally biased news source? Would you take anything from FOX News as fact? I don't read garbage from Salon and it just goes to show the level of bias you have by reading garbage like that in the first place. By the way, before you attack me, I do not watch FOX News, but I think you would actually like your buddy Shephard Smith.

I do understand your need though since all of Trump's other so called Russian connections have not worked out, that you now have to resort to Puerto Rican Russians. Funny though how lefties criticize Trump's response to the PR hurricane while presenting evidence that Trump actually has PR connections.
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Attacking the source. Is that the best you can do? I watch Fox News all the time, not so much anymore, but I still check them out periodically because I like to get both sides of the story or to see if Fox News actually reports the story. Unlike you who doesn't want to read something because it's "liberal." What a cop-out. How do you get through life not reading things that you don't agree with? I understand not eating foods that upset your stomach, but it's almost impossible for a conservative to avoid all things that they deem liberal.

BTW. Here's the last time Fox News reported about this very hotel. In 2015. Maybe they should update their records...:
PANAMA CITY (AP) – The directors of a massive Trump-branded luxury condominium development in Panama fired Donald Trump's company in the summer over allegations of mismanagement, overspending and undisclosed bonuses executives paid themselves.
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Panama condo owners tell Donald Trump 'You're fired!' over mismanagement allegations | Fox News

Put your name on something seedy and you will be forever linked with it.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The words likely and probably won't get you a conviction.

Sounds more like hoping to me.
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I don't think you realize just how deep the doo-doo the Trump administration is in. The level of political and financial entanglements between Trump, the Trump Organization and the campaign to elect Trump is mind-boggling. This piece of Panama is only a hint at the corruption of the Trump Organization.

The problem that the Trump supporters have is that Mueller has run a pretty tight investigation. They are have been lulled to sleep because they are not paying attention / ignoring to the issues of the Trump I Administration and they dismiss what they do know as political. They are going to be in for quite an awakening in about six months.

Moderate Right said:
Salon? That's the best you can do, a rabid liberally biased news source? Would you take anything from FOX News as fact? I don't read garbage from Salon and it just goes to show the level of bias you have by reading garbage like that in the first place. By the way, before you attack me, I do not watch FOX News, but I think you would actually like your buddy Shephard Smith.

I do understand your need though since all of Trump's other so called Russian connections have not worked out, that you now have to resort to Puerto Rican Russians. Funny though how lefties criticize Trump's response to the PR hurricane while presenting evidence that Trump actually has PR connections.
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Its Panama; not Costa Rica. Its an NBC News Investigative piece that the Salon article has summarized.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/invest...ies-trump-s-name-ties-organized-crime-n821706

and, I refer you to the first part of the post: you have been lulled to sleep because Mueller runs a professional investigation and a tight ship.
 
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NeverTrumpGOP said:
I guess then you'll stop jacking off to Hillary Clinton + Corruption every time you google search it?

I have yet to come across a Trump supporter who can properly explain why Trump's corruption doesn't matter while Hillary deserves to get burned at the stake.
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I guess you may be a little slow on the uptake, so I will be more than happy to let you know that I did not vote for Trump, or like him.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Attacking the source. Is that the best you can do? I watch Fox News all the time, not so much anymore, but I still check them out periodically because I like to get both sides of the story or to see if Fox News actually reports the story. Unlike you who doesn't want to read something because it's "liberal." What a cop-out. How do you get through life not reading things that you don't agree with? I understand not eating foods that upset your stomach, but it's almost impossible for a conservative to avoid all things that they deem liberal.

BTW. Here's the last time Fox News reported about this very hotel. In 2015. Maybe they should update their records...:
Panama condo owners tell Donald Trump 'You're fired!' over mismanagement allegations | Fox News

Put your name on something seedy and you will be forever linked with it.
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It speaks volumes when you get your biased partisan news from Salon. I don't read any extremely biased news from any extremely biased news organization. They all have nothing but biased slanted sound bites designed to please their biased base.
 
Moderate Right said:
It speaks volumes when you get your biased partisan news from Salon. I don't read any extremely biased news from any extremely biased news organization. They all have nothing but biased slanted sound bites designed to please their biased base.
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:lamo Where do you get your news from? I guarantee that it's heavily biased. I never said that Salon is the sole source from which I get my news. Stop trying to act all high and mighty when everyone knows you are one of the most highly partisan posters on this forum.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I guess you may be a little slow on the uptake, so I will be more than happy to let you know that I did not vote for Trump, or like him.
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So does that mean you like Hillary and that her corruption is OK?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Some people can step back from all the "noise" and just prefer to let things unfold without acting like the gossipy little snitch.......like some folks on here.:roll:
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Right if it's not hatred, it's anti-trump noise. This wouldn't be so difficult for you guys if you had elected someone who was actually cleaner than Hillary.
 
Moderate Right said:
It speaks volumes when you get your biased partisan news from Salon. I don't read any extremely biased news from any extremely biased news organization. They all have nothing but biased slanted sound bites designed to please their biased base.
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Truth doesn't care who tells it.

If you want to refute what has been shared here get the facts out and share them.
 
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