• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump will scrap critical Obamacare subsidy

Polar Bum said:
It would be hypocrisy if I was on "Team MAGA"....Im not.

So, when I call out BS when I see it, don't let your panties get in a twist because I called out your community organizer.....'kay? Thnx. Bye.
Click to expand...
My apologizes for including you in that group. As a wild man, I don't wear panties -- or any underwear. lol

Calling Obama a "community organizer," which he was in his formative years in politics but then became a state senator, U.S. Senator and then POTUS, says much about you, whether you realize it or not.
 
reinoe said:
Nothing was fixed. It was throwing money at a problem without fixing anything.
Click to expand...

I mean, I just literally presented data showing that it had a profoundly positive impact.

If it was really so great then large and wealthy insurance companies wouldn't need subsidies to prop up the ACA.
Click to expand...

That's like saying if welfare was so great then people wouldn't need subsidies.
 
joG said:
The problem is that the government should not be subsidizing healthcare in a rich society of today's technological level. The general approach Obama took was sensible in using the private sector, but he didn't solve the problems and he didn't dare to put the costs to the consumers.
Click to expand...

Who ever said it was a great bill? Even if you think it was bad, there's still zero upside from doing away with it.
 
MTAtech said:
My apologizes for including you in that group. As a wild man, I don't wear panties -- or any underwear. lol

Calling Obama a "community organizer," which he was in his formative years in politics but then became a state senator, U.S. Senator and then POTUS, says much about you, whether you realize it or not.
Click to expand...

Like we don't all use snark when referring to politicians...I trust you wont be too offended.

Its fun, tradition, and something of a national past time.
 
MTAtech said:
A) It's only illegal if the president doesn't get appropriations from Congress. As an alternative, Trump could have asked for the money and he would have gotten it.
B) Trump should want to avoid the insurance market from disruption too. Before the election, he was the bull in the china shop. Now, it's his china shop.

This is the effect of Trump's action:

Click to expand...


Trump should avoid disrupting the insurance markets ? Lol !

The markets are and have been propped up for some time with billions of dollars in illegal subsidies.

So FYI, a insurance market who's sustainabillity is totally dependent on billions of dollars in illegal Federal payouts is officially " disrupted "


And OF-COURSE theyre illegal.

The GAO exposed these subsidies and issued a report on them back in 2015 and even the IRS warned the Obama admin that these were illegal payouts..

The IRS warned Obama it was illegal to pay ObamaCare subsidies to insurance companies
 
Fenton said:
Trump should avoid disrupting the insurance markets ? Lol !

The markets are and have been propped up for some time with billions of dollars in illegal subsidies.

So FYI, a insurance market who's sustainabillity is totally dependent on billions of dollars in illegal Federal payouts is officially " disrupted "


And OF-COURSE theyre illegal.

The GAO exposed these subsidies and issued a report on them back in 2015 and even the IRS warned the Obama admin that these were illegal payouts..

The IRS warned Obama it was illegal to pay ObamaCare subsidies to insurance companies
Click to expand...

Okay, let's just run with your assumption that CSR payments are illegal. Why do you think it's a good thing that millions of people will be kicked off their insurance and premiums will further spike?
 
Polar Bum said:
My kids both lost their insurance not long after ACA went into effect....so, its not like this will cause them anymore pain than they are already experiencing.

This after a 42% hike in premiums followed by another hike of 51%....the insurers then pulled out of Minnesota along with several other insurers.

My kids are still waiting for that "affordable" part of the ACA....In the meantime, they are without coverage simply because its cheaper to pay the "fine".
Click to expand...

I live in MN, I know dozens of people that go through the exchange and not a single one dislikes their plan. I assume you're talking about Medica, which I went through as well, but there are still great options that are a million times better than anything I had ever had for 1/5th the price.
 
Kobie said:
Sabotage program; claim program doesn't work.

Basically Republican Governance 101. He's learned something.
Click to expand...

Given that Obamacare requires federal subsidies to corporations in order to function, it should be obvious that Obamacare doesnt work.
 
MTAtech said:
With all the major whopper lies Trump tells without your side even raising an eyebrow, you no longer have cause to quote that Obama error, without subjecting yourself to being a hypocrite.

The reality is that the ACA (a.k.a. Obamacare) did a lot of great things. It lowered the uninsured rate to the lowest in modern history; provides people with chronic problems, like cancer, the peace of mind knowing that they will never reach a lifetime limit on treatment; and yes, for people who got subsidies, reduced their premium cost more than $2,500.

Now Trump is moving to unravel the entire system. His actions will cause premiums to skyrocket -- as insurance companies need to build-in the loose-cannon risk of Trump. It will cause lots of people to lose insurance and Americans will be worse off.

But hey, at least you don't have a president with her own email server.
Click to expand...

Obamacare was supposed to:
1. Let people keep their doctor (it didnt)
2. Lower premiums (it didnt)
3. Eliminate uninsured individuals (it didnt)

It failed on its own terms.
 
Polar Bum said:
My kids both lost their insurance not long after ACA went into effect....so, its not like this will cause them anymore pain than they are already experiencing.

This after a 42% hike in premiums followed by another hike of 51%....the insurers then pulled out of Minnesota along with several other insurers.

My kids are still waiting for that "affordable" part of the ACA....In the meantime, they are without coverage simply because its cheaper to pay the "fine".
Click to expand...

And this will make insurance far more expensive. How does that help?
 
iguanaman said:
20 million more people got insured by this "very broken house of cards" and you want them thrown off their insurance because.....
Click to expand...

The increase was due to more people being placed on Medicaid. Which did not require overhauling the heathcare system to accomplish.
 
joG said:
The problem is that the government should not be subsidizing healthcare in a rich society of today's technological level. The general approach Obama took was sensible in using the private sector, but he didn't solve the problems and he didn't dare to put the costs to the consumers.
Click to expand...

"Should" has nothing to do with it. "Must" or poor, sick and old people will die from lack of care is the key. There's a good reason every single industrialized country on the planet subsidizes healthcare, and it's because otherwise the low wage workers that make a 'free market' economy function properly in other areas cannot afford life saving healthcare.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Given that Obamacare requires federal subsidies to corporations in order to function, it should be obvious that Obamacare doesnt work.
Click to expand...

That's actually not obvious at all. The military requires federal subsidies to corporations to function, so do roads, ports, airports, Medicare, Medicaid, and nearly every other government service.
 
Mustachio said:
I live in MN, I know dozens of people that go through the exchange and not a single one dislikes their plan. I assume you're talking about Medica, which I went through as well, but there are still great options that are a million times better than anything I had ever had for 1/5th the price.
Click to expand...

It was Preferred One....then Blue Cross, both of which left the MN exchange, and following the rate hikes, it became unaffordable through MnSure.

It became more cost effective for them to pay the penalties until I returned working overseas and covered them under my plan....I don't need it myself as I have Tricare for Life....I just use the Tricare Oveseas supplement.

When we finally leave Minnesota, they will be coming with me.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Obamacare was supposed to:
1. Let people keep their doctor (it didnt)
2. Lower premiums (it didnt)
3. Eliminate uninsured individuals (it didnt)

It failed on its own terms.
Click to expand...

OK, fine. There is nothing easier than pointing to someone else's work and saying, "You suck."

The hard part is doing the hard work and come up with something better. Now the incompetent Trump administration along with the lazy and stupid GOP majority is nuking it without any plan for a system that works better.
 
JasperL said:
And this will make insurance far more expensive. How does that help?
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase.....they have no insurance of their own....they simply cant afford it; They are now covered under me.

So let me ask you this....They cant afford the "Affordable" care, but its cool to hit them with a fine?

Logic. Fail.

I wish to be perfectly clear on my position....I don't care about the ACA, I don't care about other peoples inability to afford care; I care about my family alone, not yours or anyone elses.

If the ACA goes down in flames, I will toast marshmallows and drink beer, and not lose a bit of sleep over it.

When my life's burning desire is to live in a collectivist/socialist utopia, I'll be on the first thing smoking to immigrate to one of those neat socialist nations in the EU.

Until then, my neighbors problem is not mine.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
From politico.



Trump will scrap critical Obamacare subsidy - POLITICO

It seems that healthcare will once again become a political issue in 2018.
Click to expand...

What is more important to the Trump haters?

1. Their chance to blame Trump for stopping payment of these subsidies.

2. Their chance to blame Trump for illegally paying these subsidies.

In any case, there is a very simple solution to this situation: Congress can do its job and appropriate the money for these subsidies.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Okay, so you don't care about the fact that the ACA actually was a major contributor to the massive drop in bankruptcy filings, and that once the ACA goes away this will once again spike?

CR-Inline-ACA-Bankruptcy-chart3-final-06-17
Click to expand...
Funny that you left off the part of the graph that shows that bankruptcies simply reverted back to where they were in the years prior to 2009 - you know, pre-recession and pre-aca.
 
So this quote from the article is true or false: "there is no appropriation for cost-sharing reduction payments to insurance companies under Obamacare,"?
 
Polar Bum said:
Let me rephrase.....they have no insurance of their own....they simply cant afford it; They are now covered under me.

So let me ask you this....They cant afford the "Affordable" care, but its cool to hit them with a fine?

Logic. Fail.

I wish to be perfectly clear on my position....I don't care about the ACA, I don't care about other peoples inability to afford care; I care about my family alone, not yours or anyone elses.

If the ACA goes down in flames, I will toast marshmallows and drink beer, and not lose a bit of sleep over it.

When my life's burning desire is to live in a collectivist/socialist utopia, I'll be on the first thing smoking to immigrate to one of those neat socialist nations in the EU.

Until then, my neighbors problem is not mine.
Click to expand...

Yes, I get it.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Obamacare was supposed to:
1. Let people keep their doctor (it didnt)
2. Lower premiums (it didnt)
3. Eliminate uninsured individuals (it didnt)

It failed on its own terms.
Click to expand...
While you always can "keep your doctor," it always mattered whether your doctor was in your plan. If you chose a plan that your doctor wasn't a member, that was on you. I've lost doctor and dentists over the years because they leave the plan and that was before Obamacare. Using this as a reason to oppose the ACA is just clinging to gotcha issues.
For people that received subsidies, which is about half, it did lower their premiums from what they were paying. This forbes article says it hasn't been true for employers and Kaiser Family Foundation's study found, the average premium increase for the Silver plan in 17 major cities had an average increase of 2% in 2016. That's below what the CBO predicted and premium costs after the ACA was instituted was far lower than before the ACA.
The ACA never had "eliminate uninsured individuals" as a goal. That's just a false claim. It predicted uninsured rates would fall by 90%, and that's what they did.

Of course, Trump's actions isn't a reason or a rational response to the few problems remaining in the ACA. Every problem is made worse by Trump's action.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Obamacare was supposed to:
1. Let people keep their doctor (it didnt)
2. Lower premiums (it didnt)
3. Eliminate uninsured individuals (it didnt)

It failed on its own terms.
Click to expand...
4. Reduce expensive emergency room visits (it didn't)
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Pretty much the dumbest and worst thing he could do.
Click to expand...

Agreed !

I mean who cares how many 1000s? 1000000s? of sick/injured Americans this will hurt. F' em! [/sarcasm]


Nothing like putting sand in the gas tank, puncturing all 4 tires, smashing the windshield then pointing and claiming "See I told you that car is junk and wont go anywhere" LMAO
What a clown
 
Taylor said:
Funny that you left off the part of the graph that shows that bankruptcies simply reverted back to where they were in the years prior to 2009 - you know, pre-recession and pre-aca.
Click to expand...

That's not quite true, really. The only year lower was 2006, which was right after the law changed, and there was a surge of bankruptcies in the previous year. And even the next lowest year of 2007 was at the top of a multi-generational credit and housing bubble.

6a00d8341cf9b753ef01b8d2973ece970c-400wi


Discussion here: Bankruptcy Filings Holding Steady for the First Half of 2017 - Credit Slips
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Okay, let's just run with your assumption that CSR payments are illegal. Why do you think it's a good thing that millions of people will be kicked off their insurance and premiums will further spike?
Click to expand...

Of-course they're illegal, did you not read the link ?

As for milllions getting kicked off their healthcare, that remains to be seen

But assuming your'e correct, are you saying that no matter what it cost is, no matter how much higher premiums and deductibles contine to rise which makes accessing healthcare almost impossible for millions of hard working American people, no matter how many US Counties are subjected exchanges with only one insurer or no insurer, that this law should be saved ?

The Left seems to think that Obama's legacy and the Democrats political reputation and brand are the priority here as they continue to defend the indefensible.

Schumer commented earlier on this EO claiming it undermined any and all bi-partisan attempts to fix this law ( it cant be fixed )

Well the latest bi-partisan negotiations included a Democrat fix that would provide for billions of tax payers dollars to fund and stabilize the exchanges.

Huh ? On top of the billions of dollars in illegal payouts the Obama administration has already made ? What these illegal payouts prove is the ACA is unfixable.

Obama's been propping up the exchanges for years and theyre still bleeding money, still unstable and premiums and deductibles are still rising exponetially
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom