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Woman Would Take Jail Over Taking Down Trump Signs

So if your neighbor across the street put up a sign that spanned her entire front yard, was 30' tall, in neon colors, lit 24/7 with "I LOVE KALE!!!" splashed across it, you'd be OK with that???

I don't have to be ok with it, but I am obligated to respect her right do so. If she didn't turn the neon off at bedtime, we might have a problem.
 
MAybe you just don't get it...of course we don't do any of that *facepalm*

All my analogies are using the same logic.... but of course they sound ridiculous THAT"S THE WHOLE POINT lol... they are using the same logic is instances where you would think it's ridiculous, it means that the logic is wrong.

you need to work the whole abstract thinking thing...

I certainly wouldn't complain if someone had yard-signs up in their yard. The only thing I would care about is if a neighbor did something to my property that directly physically affected it... like posion running off into it, or an extremely dangerous tree, improper water runoff into my yard.

And I'm not sure you understand that not all libertarians are anarchist lol... I'm perfectly happy in America(though I'd like to make some changes). What libertarian means to me, is to use the government only when necessary... it is a necessary evil and seek all other possible solid solutions before you turn to the government(though sometimes you certainly have to)
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They are not using the same logic. They are not even remotely similar.

What you need are real-world examples where an actually comparable situation was in play and an actually comparable ordinance lead to an absurd result. There probably are some. But even then, you'd be talking about specific ordinances being bad ordinances, and there are plenty.

The logic - that someone should not be able to use their property in such a way as to destroy someone else's enjoyment/use of their own property - would still be untouched. Well, that is if it were "logic".

In fact, you cannot show that the "logic" is bogus because we're talking about a societal preference. You're simply saying you have a difference preference, and I'm simply saying that I'll wait until you (or other libertarians) put their money where their mouth is. Until then, I'm betting that if someone really did do something extreme that ruined your enjoyment of your own property, you'd do everything you legally could to make it stop. Stuff like this doesn't get enshrined in law and then stay that way unless most people agree with the general principle.






Hell of a way to fail so hard while saying someone else is stupid.
 
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The OP is about an old woman decked out in Trump gear, in multiple senses, insisting that spending the rest of her life in jail would be preferable to using smaller Trump signs. If anyone has TDS, it's her.
Yes, but here's the thing:

She's accused of a municipal ordinance violation and threatened with a fine. There was nothing in the article speaking to criminal conduct or a jailable offense.

Either the article is missing information, or she is playing hyperbolic victim martyr.
 
Yes, but here's the thing:

She's accused of a municipal ordinance violation and threatened with a fine. There was nothing in the article speaking to criminal conduct or a jailable offense.

Either the article is missing information, or she is playing hyperbolic victim martyr.

Yeah, the jail thing is coming from her. I suspect that if the fines piled up they'd probably just put some kind of lien on the property or.....well I don't actually have a clue what they might do. Not my area.


I'd also note that there is a process to apply for permission to put up larger signs according to the newser bit.
 
http://m.newser.com/story/248931/wo...3b8a2e2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

A Maine woman says she'd rather go to jail than take down her pro-Donald Trump signs. Susan Reitman's signs say "I Love Trump" and "He Won, Get Over It." But the code enforcement officer in Rockland has notified her that the signs violate a local ordinance

Some people are way too devoted to certain politicians.

And you would have a orgasm defending her if she had a democrat sign.

We get it.......regardless of what you have listed as your political lean.
 
They are not using the same logic. They are not even remotely similar.

What you need are real-world examples where an actually comparable situation was in play and an actually comparable ordinance lead to an absurd result. There probably are some. But even then, you'd be talking about specific ordinances being bad ordinances, and there are plenty.

The logic - that someone should not be able to use their property in such a way as to destroy someone else's enjoyment/use of their own property - would still be untouched. Well, that is if it were "logic".

In fact, you cannot show that the "logic" is bogus because we're talking about a societal preference. You're simply saying you have a difference preference, and I'm simply saying that I'll wait until you (or other libertarians) put their money where their mouth is. Until then, I'm betting that if someone really did do something extreme that ruined your enjoyment of your own property, you'd do everything you legally could to make it stop. Stuff like this doesn't get enshrined in law and then stay that way unless most people agree with the general principle.






Hell of a way to fail so hard while saying someone else is stupid.
If there were real world examples of what I'm talking about IT WOULDN'T MAKE MY POINT!!!

The WHOLE POINT is come up with an analogy YOU would disprove of and relate it to the same thing.
Hypothetically:
A big cult swept across the nation, and it's the cult of Pine tree haters...90% of the people in the USA are now a part of this cult.... you just so happen to be the 10% that like pine tree's, and you planted one on your property... the surrounding properties are in an uproar because you planted a hideous pine tree and now no one would want to buy their property because their neighbor is a blasphemous pine tree lover!!! Can you then, force them to uproot their pine tree?

Why is it similar? excess political signs=decrease property value
Pine Tree=decrease property value

The only difference between the two is that the political signs is currently the culprit of the decrease in property value. But, hypothetically... using the same logic in the conditions of the pine tree... It too would have to be band. The only difference between the two, is subjective average public opinion on ANYTHING that is on your property.

I would say I am surprised I had to spell it out for you.... but I am not...
 
If only we could harness Trump supporters blind loyalty to a conman we could fuel our cars with safe, renewable energy.

No one was able to harness the previous eight years of idolatry, which would have been enough energy to power all 50 states, so I don't imagine it's going to happen here either.
 
She shouldn't be thrown in jail..but every day we make decisions that are really peanuts that could cause us to break a law.

I hate sitting at a red light when there are no cars coming from any direction. If I ran it though and a cop was hiding in a parking lot I'd get a hefty fine.

This ordinance is no different than a ton of other laws that when applied in specific circumstances are dumb but are there for a reason.
 
If there were real world examples of what I'm talking about IT WOULDN'T MAKE MY POINT!!!

The WHOLE POINT is come up with an analogy YOU would disprove of and relate it to the same thing.
Hypothetically:
A big cult swept across the nation, and it's the cult of Pine tree haters...90% of the people in the USA are now a part of this cult.... you just so happen to be the 10% that like pine tree's, and you planted one on your property... the surrounding properties are in an uproar because you planted a hideous pine tree and now no one would want to buy their property because their neighbor is a blasphemous pine tree lover!!! Can you then, force them to uproot their pine tree?

Why is it similar? excess political signs=decrease property value
Pine Tree=decrease property value

The only difference between the two is that the political signs is currently the culprit of the decrease in property value. But, hypothetically... using the same logic in the conditions of the pine tree... It too would have to be band. The only difference between the two, is subjective average public opinion on ANYTHING that is on your property.

I would say I am surprised I had to spell it out for you.... but I am not...

Why is it similar? excess political signs=decrease property value
Pine Tree=decrease property value


It is entirely irrelevant because that never has or never will happen. These are straw analogies. But worse, you keep acting like if you can think up a really stupid ordinance, that will make all ordinances of that type stupid. That's simply nonsense.






You also keep weaving in insults regarding my intellect, but you also keep missing the point by a country mile, so I'll type it again: the potential for a town to pass a bad ordinance of a certain category does not make ALL ordinances in that category bad. Yet, that's exactly what you are doing when you try to say that the "logic" of ordinances that protect property value is "bogus".

I am not the one whose posts have a logic problem.
 
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I don't have to be ok with it, but I am obligated to respect her right do so. If she didn't turn the neon off at bedtime, we might have a problem.

Where do you draw the line? 7 broke down vehicles missing assorted body parts? 10 or 12 dogs chained up in the front yard, barking and crapping? 50 ft flag pole with a Russian flag flying over an American one? Unlimited property rights are just a conservative pipe dream.
I have found if you don't want to have annoying neighbors, don't have neighbors. I don't. Not close enough to annoy me anyway.
 

Why is it similar? excess political signs=decrease property value
Pine Tree=decrease property value


It is entirely irrelevant because that never has or never will happen. These are straw analogies.

But worse, you keep acting like if you can think up a really stupid ordinance, that will make all ordinances of that type stupid. That's simply nonsense.






You also keep weaving in insults regarding my intellect, but you also keep missing the point by a country mile, so I'll type it again: the potential for a town to pass a bad ordinance of a certain category does not make ALL ordinances in that category bad.

I am not the one whose posts have a logic problem.

Gonna need some proof that political signs reduce property value. How many signs are too many? Would you want her in jail or be financially ruined if she was a Hillary supporter?
 
I would agree that she should be able to have the sign on her own property. I just don't understand the blind devotion to Trump. She's willing to go to jail for him? FFS, change the sign so that you're within the law.
 
Where do you draw the line? 7 broke down vehicles missing assorted body parts? 10 or 12 dogs chained up in the front yard, barking and crapping? 50 ft flag pole with a Russian flag flying over an American one? Unlimited property rights are just a conservative pipe dream.
I have found if you don't want to have annoying neighbors, don't have neighbors. I don't. Not close enough to annoy me anyway.

Where do you draw the line at telling people what they can and can't have on their property?
 
I would agree that she should be able to have the sign on her own property. I just don't understand the blind devotion to Trump. She's willing to go to jail for him? FFS, change the sign so that you're within the law.

And that's what's really at issue here, isn't it? I suspect that, for here, it's the principle. She can support whoever she wants.
 
http://m.newser.com/story/248931/wo...3b8a2e2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

A Maine woman says she'd rather go to jail than take down her pro-Donald Trump signs. Susan Reitman's signs say "I Love Trump" and "He Won, Get Over It." But the code enforcement officer in Rockland has notified her that the signs violate a local ordinance

Some people are way too devoted to certain politicians.


Its on her property,so I don't see why it's any of the city's business. If anything those ordinances violate her right to free speech.
 
Gonna need some proof that political signs reduce property value. How many signs are too many? Would you want her in jail or be financially ruined if she was a Hillary supporter?

You're jumping into an exchange I'm having someone who thinks that if he can dream up a stupid ordinance, then every ordinance in the same category is just as stupid, which is a far more general discussion. I'm not here to debate whether the specific size restrictions here go too far.

If you're saying you cannot imagine any amount or size of signage on someone's property that could reduce the value of the next person's property and therefore need "proof", I'm not sure what you think you're asking for. Am I supposed to hop on Lexis and do hours of free research or something? Am I supposed to cold call some appraisers and ask if it had ever come up?

Though mainly I have to doubt it was an intellectually honest request because really, you can't imagine for example that if one neighbor put up a bunch of billboards on their front lawn (we're talking full size billboards), that that might affect the neighbor's property value? Of course you can imagine that. But like I said, I'm not particularly interested in trying to argue about the exact size or amount of signage is too much because the point was that generally, this kind of law has land use affecting surrounding property value in mind.

If it's an even broader remark and you want caselaw where neighbors went at it over various types of property use that impacted the value of property, plenty of public libraries have basic legal sections. Look for a textbook on Property Law. You may not find anything about signage, but hey, thems the breaks. If you say you cannot imagine any amount of signage causing a reduction of value, then I don't think you're being serious.

Of course, I probably ought not have responded at all in light of the "Hillary supporter" remark. Boring political trolling.
 
Its on her property,so I don't see why it's any of the city's business. If anything those ordinances violate her right to free speech.

Naw, government regs should never be questioned.
 
Where do you draw the line? 7 broke down vehicles missing assorted body parts? 10 or 12 dogs chained up in the front yard, barking and crapping? 50 ft flag pole with a Russian flag flying over an American one? Unlimited property rights are just a conservative pipe dream.
I have found if you don't want to have annoying neighbors, don't have neighbors. I don't. Not close enough to annoy me anyway.

We're talking about signage, not junk cars and a herd of dogs.
 

Why is it similar? excess political signs=decrease property value
Pine Tree=decrease property value


It is entirely irrelevant because that never has or never will happen. These are straw analogies. But worse, you keep acting like if you can think up a really stupid ordinance, that will make all ordinances of that type stupid. That's simply nonsense.






You also keep weaving in insults regarding my intellect, but you also keep missing the point by a country mile, so I'll type it again: the potential for a town to pass a bad ordinance of a certain category does not make ALL ordinances in that category bad. Yet, that's exactly what you are doing when you try to say that the "logic" of ordinances that protect property value is "bogus".

I am not the one whose posts have a logic problem.
What makes it good or bad?
what is the difference between the pine tree and the signs... in principal? It is entirely subjective opinion on what the general public deems desirable or not... what you can do with your property should not be based on subjective opinion on what is desirable, but on sound principles and logic that can be applied universally.
 
You're jumping into an exchange I'm having someone who thinks that if he can dream up a stupid ordinance, then every ordinance in the same category is just as stupid, which is a far more general discussion. I'm not here to debate whether the specific size restrictions here go too far.

If you're saying you cannot imagine any amount or size of signage on someone's property that could reduce the value of the next person's property and therefore need "proof", I'm not sure what you think you're asking for. Am I supposed to hop on Lexis and do hours of free research or something? Am I supposed to cold call some appraisers and ask if it had ever come up?

Though mainly I have to doubt it was an intellectually honest request because really, you can't imagine for example that if one neighbor put up a bunch of billboards on their front lawn (we're talking full size billboards), that that might affect the neighbor's property value? Of course you can imagine that. But like I said, I'm not particularly interested in trying to argue about the exact size or amount of signage is too much because the point was that generally, this kind of law has land use affecting surrounding property value in mind.

If it's an even broader remark and you want caselaw where neighbors went at it over various types of property use that impacted the value of property, plenty of public libraries have basic legal sections. Look for a textbook on Property Law. You may not find anything about signage, but hey, thems the breaks. If you say you cannot imagine any amount of signage causing a reduction of value, then I don't think you're being serious.

Of course, I probably ought not have responded at all in light of the "Hillary supporter" remark. Boring political trolling.

Don't worry about it. In that you offered, basically, nothing to back up your claim this is pretty much the same as not responding.
 
Yeah, well, she's 74 years old. And she won't go to jail. But she could be fined $100 a day according to the city statutes. Perhaps her family can talk some sense into her, but likelynshe has none. Just a,WAG. The Code Enforcement Officer is going out of his way to understand...

She's just a stubborn old coot.

So am I. Stop picking on stubborn old coots.
 
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