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Amazon is looking for a 2nd headquarter city, a 'full equal to Seattle'

Redress said:
It is past time you learned how anti-trust laws work......
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Actually, anti trust law "is what we say it is", but the other issue is their business model is based not on profits so much like in the olden days, but on keeping prices so low no one can afford to compete.

And regarding the move - it also give them traditional leverage over Seattle and the state of Washington if they get all uppity and try to raise their taxes or regulate them.
 
chuckiechan said:
Actually, anti trust law "is what we say it is", but the other issue is their business model is based not on profits so much like in the olden days, but on keeping prices so low no one can afford to compete.

And regarding the move - it also give them traditional leverage over Seattle and the state of Washington if they get all uppity and try to raise their taxes or regulate them.
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Or they might be trying to quietly and surreptitiously slip away from Seattle.
 
Chomsky said:
Or they might be trying to quietly and surreptitiously slip away from Seattle.
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I doubt that. Seattle is a really nice place to live, much nicer than San Francisco. Most of the brass are "aged in" with kids, and extended local family. But you never know. Maybe they will move to Canada.
 
chuckiechan said:
Actually, anti trust law "is what we say it is", but the other issue is their business model is based not on profits so much like in the olden days, but on keeping prices so low no one can afford to compete.

And regarding the move - it also give them traditional leverage over Seattle and the state of Washington if they get all uppity and try to raise their taxes or regulate them.
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There business model is based on reinvesting everything back into the business. Their warehouses are brutally efficient places. Costs are low because they have potentially the most efficient logistic model in the business of retail
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Puzzle: Seattle rated best for professional careers, worst for quality of life | The Seattle Times

Maybe Amazonians are just not that into Seattle
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After reading that, now I think Amazon really may bug-out of Seattle.

It seems one of the two main negative quality of life factors was Seattle's poor transportation. And in Amazon's RFP they specifically cited great public transport as a requirement.

As to the other main negative (high housing costs), with Amazon's RFP requirements I think anywhere that fits will have fairly expensive housing.
 
Chomsky said:
After reading that, now I think Amazon really may bug-out of Seattle.

It seems one of the two main negative quality of life factors was Seattle's poor transportation. And in Amazon's RFP they specifically cited great public transport as a requirement.

As to the other main negative (high housing costs), with Amazon's RFP requirements I think anywhere that fits will have fairly expensive housing.
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Poor extremely expensive transportation. Roads are a complete disaster and taking down the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacing it with a very expensive tunnel that has no downtown access because that would have been even more expensive thus forcing lots of people on the city streets which by the way are being reduced in number will make things worse soon. Sounder Rail has been a complete disaster the last year or so because of building and because BNSF is BNSF. I had thought that our new very expensive LinkRail was well run till last year when I was on it when they completely botched a service disruption....communication was non existent and they had assets very poorly set to cover it...again at great expense. Sound Transit you see can do no wrong according to almost everybody because they are very inclusive and very good at touching base with all the community power centers (politics), but running the transit system either they cant do well or does not make the priority list. Even though everything on LinkRail is almost brand new elevators and escalators already often dont work, and everything tends to smell of piss and is already looking worn,.....and there is security everywhere which is supposed to make us feel safe but it makes me wonder why we need and pay for so much security (And explosion in the number vagrants and downtown crime is the likely answer, even though spending on the so-called homeless is exploding as well...more and more come...predictably.... for the Seattle Hospitality!)

The fact that we have spent ten years and a Billion dollars working to make I-5 through Tacoma work better and it still does not for extra credit.

Bikes are supposed to be huge in Seattle but I dont see many, but what with the rain and all the hills why would I?

Seattle is ripe for a fall.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Poor extremely expensive transportation. Roads are a complete disaster and taking down the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacing it with a very expensive tunnel that has no downtown access because that would have been even more expensive thus forcing lots of people on the city streets which by the way are being reduced in number will make things worse soon. Sounder Rail has been a complete disaster the last year or so because of building and because BNSF is BNSF. I had thought that our new very expensive LinkRail was well run till last year when I was on it when they completely botched a service disruption....communication was non existent and they had assets very poorly set to cover it...again at great expense. Sound Transit you see can do no wrong according to almost everybody because they are very inclusive and very good at touching base with all the community power centers (politics), but running the transit system either they cant do well or does not make the priority list. Even though everything is almost brand new elevators and escalators already often dont work, and everything tends to smell of piss, and there is security everywhere which is supposed to make us feel safe but it makes me wonder why we need and pay for so much security.

The fact that we have spent ten years and a Billion dollars working to make I-5 through Tacoma work better and it still does not for extra credit.

Bikes are supposed to be huge in Seattle but I dont see many, but what with the rain and all the hills why would I?

Seattle is ripe for a fall.
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You know, this might actually make a case for the older cities with established functional public transport, like Chicago, NY, Boston.

Amazon had good public transportation as a key requirement.
 
Chomsky said:
You know, this might actually make a case for the older cities with established functional public transport, like Chicago, NY, Boston.

Amazon had good public transportation as a key requirement.
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Well as I am sure you know the knock on Chicago is that the rail system is way out of date but it cant be changed, because building new is too expensive. Also nationwide as budget cuts cut into bus routes and bus frequency bus ridership is plummeting...fares have been going up fast as well as commute times, that just does not work.


Seattle though over all has two main problems outside of stuff they cant control like the weather....Because of hubris they have not been concerned at all about efficiency...doing things well on a budget....we tend to do things badly and spend a ton of money doing it badly....and being completely unwilling to deal with the clutter of non productive people who come to Seattle to live on the streets, often of course being hard core drug users and/or mentally ill, because of huge mistakes we have made as a nation.

Sure Amazon is looking around for other options.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Well as I am sure you know the knock on Chicago is that the rail system is way out of date but it cant be changed, because building new is too expensive. Also nationwide as budget cuts cut into bus routes and bus frequency bus ridership is plummeting...fares have been going up fast as well as commute times, that just does not work.


Seattle though over all has two main problems outside of stuff they cant control like the weather....Because of hubris they have not been concerned at all about efficiency...doing things well on a budget....we tend to do things badly and spend a ton of money doing it badly....and being completely unwilling to deal with the clutter of non productive people who come to Seattle to live on the streets, often of course being hard core drug users and/or mentally ill, because of huge mistakes we have made as a nation.

Sure Amazon is looking around for other options.
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I hate to constantly come across as a Chicago apologist, but Chicago's rail transport via the el and Metra is excellent. The city is always ranked near the top in the country for public transport.

I do agree bus service has been decreasing, but rail has been increasing. And rideshare has really taken off (essentially replacing cabs), and is much more convenient & cost effective.

When condo or apartment shopping, areas are picked by el or Metra stops. And those micro-centers, by the stops, anchor neighborhoods and provide convenient and needed services.

Seriously Hawkeye, when was the last time you were in Chicago? Have you hopped on an el or Metra, recently? Taken an Uber? I deal with the general public, and a great many newcomers to the city - especially young people - are moving to fun and hip neighborhoods, eschewing even owning a car. With no regrets! You might be surprised how many urbanites no longer own cars, if they ever did.
 
When we moved here in 04 Seattle I did not love, it felt too sanitized, plus the people are not very friendly (The Well known Seattle Chill), we actually tended to spend time in Portland instead because it was more colorful and real.....boy have things changed.

The last 4-5 years have seen the quality of Seattle dive, and the dive is picking up speed. I am confident that Amazon is sorry now that they decided to spend so big in Seattle, the new HQ is not even done yet and they are looking around for other options.
 
Chomsky said:
I hate to constantly come across as a Chicago apologist, but Chicago's rail transport via the el and Metra is excellent. The city is always ranked near the top in the country for public transport.

I do agree bus service has been decreasing, but rail has been increasing. And rideshare has really taken off (essentially replacing cabs), and is much more convenient & cost effective.

When condo or apartment shopping, areas are picked by el or Metra stops. And those micro-centers, by the stops, anchor neighborhoods and provide convenient and needed services.

Seriously Hawkeye, when was the last time you were in Chicago? Have you hopped on an el or Metra, recently? Taken an Uber? I deal with the general public, and a great many newcomers to the city - especially young people - are moving to fun and hip neighborhoods, eschewing even owning a car. With no regrets! You might be surprised how many urbanites no longer own cars, if they ever did.
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Been a long time, and ya, Rideshare, Uber ect and self driving cars very well might negate any need to reform the rail system to match how the city and burbs are laid out now. However even in the last year I have read transit "experts" talking about the need to reform Chicago transit, but being pessimistic that it will happen.

EDIT: SEP 2014:

A new study by an international economic organization paints an uncomplimentary portrait of the Chicago area's transportation system, saying it suffers from too many transit agencies and fragmented local governments.

"The current state of transit ridership in Chicago is relatively depressing," concludes the report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a Paris-based research agency whose backers include the world's richest nations, among them the U.S.

The report found a lack of coordination among the four transit agencies and their four separate boards as well as insufficient accountability. Those issues intensify the economic impact of congestion on Chicago, estimated at over $6 billion in 2011 by the Texas Transportation Institute, the report said.

Although the new study largely echoes previous critiques of the area's transit system and contains no startling findings, it offers a view of Chicago from a global perspective. And in doing so, the report gives an unflattering assessment of a transportation network that Mayor Rahm Emanuel and other leaders have aspired to be world-class.
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Study criticizes Chicago transit system - Chicago Tribune
 
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Chomsky said:
After reading that, now I think Amazon really may bug-out of Seattle.

It seems one of the two main negative quality of life factors was Seattle's poor transportation. And in Amazon's RFP they specifically cited great public transport as a requirement.

As to the other main negative (high housing costs), with Amazon's RFP requirements I think anywhere that fits will have fairly expensive housing.
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How soon we forget:

https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/seattle-taxpayers-challenge-citys-millionaire-tax

(Seattle tried a special tax on high earners).

Even though it failed, maybe Amazon was "triggered". Tech is all a twitter about raising taxes to create utopia, just not theirs.
 
chuckiechan said:
How soon we forget:

https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/seattle-taxpayers-challenge-citys-millionaire-tax

(Seattle tried a special tax on high earners).

Even though it failed, maybe Amazon was "triggered". Tech is all a twitter about raising taxes to create utopia, just not theirs.
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Interesting, I vaguely remember hearing about this. But other states and cities Amazon is considering do indeed have even higher taxes.

So did the measure get struck down? The article only mentions it is being challenged.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Been a long time, and ya, Rideshare, Uber ect and self driving cars very well might negate any need to reform the rail system to match how the city and burbs are laid out now. However even in the last year I have read transit "experts" talking about the need to reform Chicago transit, but being pessimistic that it will happen.

EDIT: SEP 2014:


Study criticizes Chicago transit system - Chicago Tribune
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Thanks for that link.

It mentions possible inter-agency problems leading to future problems, but doesn't seem to say there's a current problem. But I won't deny Chicago has political and bureaucratic waste!

But here's something interesting I recently saw:

Rahm Emanuel: In Chicago, the Trains Actually Run on Time
 
Chomsky said:
Interesting, I vaguely remember hearing about this. But other states and cities Amazon is considering do indeed have even higher taxes.

So did the measure get struck down? The article only mentions it is being challenged.
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I believe it has, and Washington remains a no income tax state. People voted down the law because they saw it as the first step toward state income tax.

They might approach it from a different angle, like property tax on commercial buildings over a certain square footage.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
There business model is based on reinvesting everything back into the business. Their warehouses are brutally efficient places. Costs are low because they have potentially the most efficient logistic model in the business of retail
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the focus IS customer service
no matter what it is they sell, customer service is paramount
that is what truly sets this company apart from the competition
https://www.salesforce.com/blog/2013/06/jeff-bezos-lessons.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottd...er-experience-became-synonymous/#77c470a23cd5
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is clear to me that Amazon made no attempt to talk to Washington or Seattle leaders.

Not even a heads up the day before the announcement.

I find this to be a ****ty way to operate.

But this is AMAZON.
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Amazon doesn't owe anything to Seattle or Washington leadership. The state and in particular the City has become extremely hostile toward business, with one Marxist radical on the Council in particular that is extremely, extremely hostile toward business, and Amazon in particular. She has called for workers to overtake Amazon and turn it into a democratically worker-controlled enterprise. She has insinuated Amazon is to blame for Seattle's homelessness. The state recently imposed mandatory paid family leave, the City passed an illegal "tax the rich" income tax, and now Sawant acuses Amazon of "holding us hostage" by being willing to leave.

Seattle is electing insane Marxists to lead the community, and they are completely and entirely attacking their very own economic backbone with this psychotically anti-business policies and rhetoric.

Even if you agree with Marxism, you're an idiot if you think it can be implemented on a municipal level without encouraging a downward spiral of capital flight. And Sawant, allegedly being an economics PhD, should certainly know better. All her Marxist rhetoric is moronic given that she's affecting city policy, not national and international policy. Even the most liberal of Seattleites who love Sawant should vote her the hell out if they have half a brain, because she is incurring maximum damage to the city with her half-cocked Marxism.
 
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Neomalthusian said:
Amazon doesn't owe anything to Seattle or Washington leadership. The state and in particular the City has become extremely hostile toward business, with one Marxist radical on the Council in particular that is extremely, extremely hostile toward business, and Amazon in particular. She has called for workers to overtake Amazon and turn it into a democratically worker-controlled enterprise. She has insinuated Amazon is to blame for Seattle's homelessness. The state recently imposed mandatory paid family leave, the City passed an illegal "tax the rich" income tax, and now Sawant acuses Amazon of "holding us hostage" by being willing to leave.

Seattle is electing insane Marxists to lead the community, and they are completely and entirely attacking their very own economic backbone with this psychotically anti-business policies and rhetoric.

Even if you agree with Marxism, you're an idiot if you think it can be implemented on a municipal level without encouraging a downward spiral of capital flight. And Sawant, allegedly being an economics PhD, should certainly know better. All her Marxist rhetoric is moronic given that she's affecting city policy, not national and international policy. Even the most liberal of Seattleites who love Sawant should vote her the hell out if they have half a brain, because she is incurring maximum damage to the city with her half-cocked Marxism.
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Look, I live here and I have my wits still, No Alzheimer's Yet! Sir...I know that power looked at Amazon and saw their winning lottery ticket and that they did not think that they needed to do anything much to keep it....I was just talking to Chomski about how badly these assholes suck generally, though we were talking about quality of life declines in Seattle driven by Hubris and general incompetence.

This does not excuse Amazon.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Look, I live here and I have my wits still, No Alzheimer's Yet! Sir...I know that power looked at Amazon and saw their winning lottery ticket and that they did not think that they needed to do anything much to keep it....
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Power looked at Amazon? What do you mean?

I was just talking to Chomski about how badly these assholes suck generally, though we were talking about quality of life declines in Seattle driven by Hubris and general incompetence.
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This is also vague. Which assholes? Whose incompetence?

This does not excuse Amazon.
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If I were Amazon, seeing some of the things city leadership has said about the company and some of the policies they have been pushing, I would quietly plan my exit too, and would see zero point keeping lines of communication open with city leadership. Zero. They are hostile anti-business ideologues, Sawant in particular. This is a no brainer. Capital is mobile. Talent is mobile. Shaming big business who is leaving your area because you are an asshole just makes you more of an asshole, and reveals you failed to consider or plan for the risks of capital flight associated with pushing Marxist policy on a municipal level.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Power looked at Amazon? What do you mean?



This is also vague. Which assholes? Whose incompetence?



If I were Amazon, seeing some of the things city leadership has said about the company and some of the policies they have been pushing, I would quietly plan my exit too, and would see zero point keeping lines of communication open with city leadership. Zero. They are hostile anti-business ideologues, Sawant in particular. This is a no brainer. Capital is mobile. Talent is mobile. Shaming big business who is leaving your area because you are an asshole just makes you more of an asshole, and reveals you failed to consider or plan for the risks of capital flight associated with pushing Marxist policy on a municipal level.
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Its not like they could possibly learn from Boeing taking away the HQ, and now the jobs too, maybe down to nothing.....they looked, they took note, and they left.
 
An obscure accounting rule changes everything

An obscure shift in how technology companies account for profits will accelerate this migration to the center of the country. It sounds small, but it will change the face of a dozen American cities. In May 2016, Amazon and Facebook announced that stock-based compensation would be fully accounted for in all their reports on profits, for all of their businesses. Google followed suit this January. A month ago, Redfin was one of the first technology IPOs in memory to take this approach from the start.

For years, investors looked the other way when tech companies paid an engineer a few hundred thousand dollars in salary and a few million dollars in stock. Companies would still report their earnings in the time-honored way, including the cost of the stock paid to employees, but would focus investors on a metric of their own invention, “adjusted EBITDA,” which didn’t count the stock. That, everyone agreed, was the real measure of a company’s profits.

Except it wasn’t. If you’re thinking that it makes no sense that a software engineer would immediately recognize the value of getting a million dollars in stock when a Wall Street investor didn’t, you’re right. It never made any sense. But that is exactly what happened.

Every bubble is fueled by funny money

And of course, this stock was the only way most employees could afford to live in a town like San Francisco or, increasingly, Seattle.
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https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/11/...attle-companies-wonder-if-its-time-to-expand/

Ya, that makes some sense dont it....People cant sell the stock right away but I think they can borrow against it, and it make them feel richer, especially of they believe in the company, dont think that the stock value will tank.

Amazon will turn a red state a bit blue, and that state will turn Amazon a bit red. The riches of Seattle will come to a new town, bringing with it a few problems, but many more wonders. Nothing could be better for America.
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That's what I suggested at the Jump...Amazon is going to go to a Southern or Mid America Red State. I say it should be Kansas City Mo.
 
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