• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down

calamity said:
It foils false equivalency attempt by the op, i.e. Clinton statue no different than those of Confederate rebels. An equivalency which, of course, makes absolutely no sense. Hence, why it is false.
Click to expand...

Different topic, different post. Probably different thread.
 
jimbo said:
I think all text books should be on line. Much easier to change to fit today's version of history and language.
Click to expand...

Yep, and then burn the old ones. I think about 451 degrees fahrenheit should do it.
 
Removable Mind said:
I don't think history needs to be erased. We need these histories for society to learn by. And it would be great if those lessons enhance our civility.
Statues are usually memorials to honor the person that the statue represents. I'm pretty sure that there's no memorials honoring Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, etc still standing. As you said, not every statue merits being in public display forever. And for a variety of reasons.
But while we're talking about Bill Clinton, he certainly lacked some morals when it came to women, but he didn't hold them hostage and force them into involuntary servitude. He was never convicted of rape. He didn't make his home state's economy revolve around involuntary servitude when he was governor.
So to conflat Bill Clinton's sexual conduct with Confederate/State leaders in the south (slave states) who supported the suppression of human beings and involuntary servitude, who were memorialized - it is damn interesting in the number of people who defend still honoring these folks. And it appears it's a lot more than just the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and White Nationalist Groups.
But I'd have no problem with Clinton statues being removed. Why? His sexual conduct aside. He was an impeached president. There's no honor in that.
I hope over time our heroes and values change. If they don't our society will digress into multiple minority groups vying for power. We're almost there now.
Click to expand...

As I said I wouldn't really mind if they got rid of Bill Clinton's statue, I certainly don't idolize him. However, you're overstating the historical importance of these statues. Most were built 50-100 years after the end of the Civil War as a response to the civil rights movement. It's a bit like the people who claim the US was founded on Christianity because the pledge of allegiance says "under God", without realizing that was added in 1954.
 
The statue is one of many that exist for all the presidents. But it is tacky as heck. He looks like a game show host.
Judging from how this thread evolved, it is surprising that there was no post saying that John Tyler should be removed. He was elected to the Confederate Congress.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
As I said I wouldn't really mind if they got rid of Bill Clinton's statue, I certainly don't idolize him. However, you're overstating the historical importance of these statues. Most were built 50-100 years after the end of the Civil War as a response to the civil rights movement. It's a bit like the people who claim the US was founded on Christianity because the pledge of allegiance says "under God", without realizing that was added in 1954.
Click to expand...

Well, no. They were built 50 or so years later as a response to the vets all dying off.
 
chuckiechan said:
It's about the statues and people who are offended by the person and character it represents.
Click to expand...

OK, so you want to have Clinton's stature removed, but argue for the Confederate statues to stay.

Hypocrisy noted.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So now the right is in favor of getting rid of statues and "erasing history" as many of you put it? So you agree with me and many others that we need better role models and that once you put a statue somewhere it doesn't mean it has to stay there until the end of time.

Over time society's heroes and values change, and with that so does its statues and murals.
Click to expand...

What you seem to be saying is that over time, history needs to be changed so people will remember it differently.
 
chuckiechan said:
'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down | Fox News Insider



Bill Clinton is a serial sexual predator, and yet everyone who walks by his statue has to be reminded that even the eyes in his life like statue is undressing you as he ponders how to get you alone for a few minutes. Women should not have to be insulted by this image, and the statue should be torn down and destroyed.
Click to expand...

As opposed to electing a man that bragged on video about being a sexual predator and women across the nation are reminded of that every time the guy speaks or tweets. Your hypocrisy is noted.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
As opposed to electing a man that bragged on video about being a sexual predator and women across the nation are reminded of that every time the guy speaks or tweets. Your hypocrisy is noted.
Click to expand...

There are no public statues of Trump that I'm aware of.
 
chuckiechan said:
There are no public statues of Trump that I'm aware of.
Click to expand...

No, its worse, he is the president of the United States. I am pretty that if given the choice, minorities would rather have a statue of Jefferson Davis than a president Jefferson Davis.
 
chuckiechan said:
The Romans used to do that. They called it damnatio memoriae". We dont kill our leaders yet, but we seem to be inching closer.
Click to expand...

Literally every society since the dawn of time has redecorated periodically. The only reason you have a problem with this one is because society no longer respects the men you idolize. Now, go on to tell me how not decorating society exactly as you want it to be decorated is erasing history.

Has history been white washed because we don't have a giant statue of Julius Caesar at the local court house? Why do they absolutely have to be on public land?
 
Let em tear down the statue, who cares, it's Bill Clinton.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The statue is one of many that exist for all the presidents. But it is tacky as heck. He looks like a game show host.
Judging from how this thread evolved, it is surprising that there was no post saying that John Tyler should be removed. He was elected to the Confederate Congress.
Click to expand...

First you have to know your history. Most of the boobs wanting to rip statues down wouldn't know a history book if you hit them in the head with one.
 
chuckiechan said:
'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down | Fox News Insider



Bill Clinton is a serial sexual predator, and yet everyone who walks by his statue has to be reminded that even the eyes in his life like statue is undressing you as he ponders how to get you alone for a few minutes. Women should not have to be insulted by this image, and the statue should be torn down and destroyed.
Click to expand...

I think it should stay until voted upon by the members of the LOCAL community in which it stands.


Im tired of people who live hundreds or even thousands of miles away telling folks what they should and should not have standing as essentially decorations in their communities.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So now the right is in favor of getting rid of statues and "erasing history" as many of you put it? So you agree with me and many others that we need better role models and that once you put a statue somewhere it doesn't mean it has to stay there until the end of time.

Over time society's heroes and values change, and with that so does its statues and murals.
Click to expand...

Not this Conservative.

The idea that inanimate objects that have been in place for years or even decades somehow take on new and offensive characteristics that warrant their immediate destruction is " stoopid "

The Left has basically taken a page out of ISIS's book when it comes to dealing with offensive images, and are seriously shooting themselves in the foot politically with all this nonsense.

Instead of copying them, we should just sit back and watch them self destruct
 
Fenton said:
Not this Conservative.

The idea that inanimate objects that have been in place for years or even decades somehow take on new and offensive characteristics that warrant their immediate destruction is " stoopid "

The Left has basically taken a page out of ISIS's book when it comes to dealing with offensive images, and are seriously shooting themselves in the foot politically with all this nonsense.

Instead of copying them, we should just sit back and watch them self destruct
Click to expand...

So once someone puts a statue on government land it must stay there until the end of time and whoever tries to remove it or replace it with better statues is basically ISIS? That's about the level of reasonableness I've come to expect from you.

As you pointed out, it's an inanimate object and purely decorative, it has nothing to do with the study of history and there's absolutely no reason it can't be moved to private property. I'm glad the Germans didn't adopt your bizarre thinking and keep all the swastikas and Hitler statues up forever.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So once someone puts a statue on government land it must stay there until the end of time and whoever tries to remove it or replace it with better statues is basically ISIS? That's about the level of reasonableness I've come to expect from you.

As you pointed out, it's an inanimate object and purely decorative, it has nothing to do with the study of history and there's absolutely no reason it can't be moved to private property. I'm glad the Germans didn't adopt your bizarre thinking and keep all the swastikas and Hitler statues up forever.
Click to expand...

The ideological and unilateral destruction of all offensive imagery thats happening right now in the US is almost IDENTICAL to what ISIS has been doing in the ME

Two seperate but different authoritve ideologies producing the same result

If a city or State wants to remove a statue, then it should be done according to a legal and democratic process. I have no issue with that whatsoever

Most Americans realize that this isnt going stop at Confederate symbols, the Left wing groups that have vandalized and destroyed statues in Durham and Atlanta have no intention of stopping at Confederate symbols

And since the media and the Democrat party have no intention of calling these groups out for what they are and holding them accountable, they may get their way when it comes to ANY image they deem offensive

This "mob-aucracy " has to stop
 
chuckiechan said:
'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down | Fox News Insider

Bill Clinton is a serial sexual predator, and yet everyone who walks by his statue has to be reminded that even the eyes in his life like statue is undressing you as he ponders how to get you alone for a few minutes. Women should not have to be insulted by this image, and the statue should be torn down and destroyed.
Click to expand...

That's fine. If you are interested, you can go through the same process that the Confederate monuments go through before being removed. You won't find me claiming that if we tear down Clinton's statue, we're erasing history and therefore once the statue goes up, the presumption is it stays up forever cause, you know, something, something, HISTORY!! good and bad!! Just like ISIS!!
 
Dittohead not! said:
Let's just take down all of the statues of famous people, past and present. Let's erase the history books while we're at it, and start over. We could create a new world, one in which the past is mutable, when it is whatever the current population wants it to be. Think of it: No more racist past, no past wars, humans have always lived in peace and harmony. All men have always been equal, we've always been allies with Oceania. It would be a whole new world order.

No student would flunk history.
Click to expand...

Why are you conflating taking down a statue with erasing history books? That's as dumb as saying unless we erect lots of statues to Reagan, we are erasing his history! Or, leaving a statue of Lee in the public square is an attempt to erase the history of all other Confederate and Union soldiers!! Why do people supporting the statue of Lee want to erase the history of everyone else!!????

I guess it's difficult to defend the idea that once a statue to a dead confederate comes up, it must never come down, so better to shift the debate and argue a different point, that erasing history is bad, which has nothing at all to do with monuments but whatever..... and liberals suck! Etc.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So now the right is in favor of getting rid of statues and "erasing history" as many of you put it? So you agree with me and many others that we need better role models and that once you put a statue somewhere it doesn't mean it has to stay there until the end of time.

Over time society's heroes and values change, and with that so does its statues and murals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, let's level Washington, DC because it was built by slaves under a George Washington's (a slave owners) supervision. :roll:
 
chuckiechan said:
'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down | Fox News Insider



Bill Clinton is a serial sexual predator, and yet everyone who walks by his statue has to be reminded that even the eyes in his life like statue is undressing you as he ponders how to get you alone for a few minutes. Women should not have to be insulted by this image, and the statue should be torn down and destroyed.
Click to expand...

Roger Stone isn't as clever as he thinks he is.
 
chuckiechan said:
'Take a Sledgehammer to It': 2 Bill Clinton Accusers Want SD Statue to Come Down | Fox News Insider

Bill Clinton is a serial sexual predator, and yet everyone who walks by his statue has to be reminded that even the eyes in his life like statue is undressing you as he ponders how to get you alone for a few minutes. Women should not have to be insulted by this image, and the statue should be torn down and destroyed.
Click to expand...

Well, what an interesting kettle of fish.

I'm just now reading a book written by one of the SS men who protected President Clinton. Wish I could tell you the name of it, but I'm a Kindle reader. I've found it's only drawback is that I don't keep getting reminded of book titles sitting around, and I promptly forget their names. Unless it's Shades of Grey.

In the book, much of Clinton's testimony before the grand jury re his impeachment is presented. It is a sordid mess. He lied, obfuscated, covered his ass at the expense of Monica Lewinsky, his protective detail and others. He is morally bankrupt. The things Trump has done re women PALE by comparison.

I'm sure historians will look at his testimony and the whole affair and proclaim, "And they didn't even throw him out of office! And there's a,statue of him in South Dakota!" I'm sure his POS reputation had something to do with Hillary Clinton's devastating loss. I'm also sure that she was promised a run at the presidency by the Democratic Party if she vocally stood by her man and vocally protected him. He is a piece of ****.

Glad these two women stepped up and took the position they have on his statue but, since I believe in due process and neither of them are residents of the state? They don't have a chance in hell.

RabidAlpaca said:
So now the right is in favor of getting rid of statues and "erasing history" as many of you put it? So you agree with me and many others that we need better role models and that once you put a statue somewhere it doesn't mean it has to stay there until the end of time.

Over time society's heroes and values change, and with that so does its statues and murals.
Click to expand...

This conservative's opinion has changed re statues. Long before this. It is the voters' choice. As long as due process is followed, it's up to the voters to decide. North Dakota voters in that town ought to be the ones to decide if they want the monument displayed or not. Those in authority with the power to remove it ought to make that decision. That's what democracy is all about.

As to your sardonic observation that 'We've gotcha now, conservatives. You're no different than the rest of us," those whose minds have changed are to be commended, in my opinion. That's what demonstrations are good for... making others think about what a group is demonstrating for or against.

Power to the people. In an orderly and law-abiding way. That's why the right to assemble PEACEFULLY, yet vocally, and its accompanying freedom of speech is sacrosanct.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom