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Mother of Charlottesville victim says she won't speak with Trump

year2late said:
She is a mother of a murdered daughter.

She is entitled to take or refuse any call she wants without her being judged negatively for her actions.

Good grief.
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She's also getting death threats.
 
Top Cat said:
No doubt it's the left that is generating the death threats she's getting.

How does it feel supporting nazis?
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I support free speech. I oppose efforts to disrupt, dissuade or otherwise obstruct free speech.

While I recognize your attempt to paint me as a Nazi sympathizer I also support your right to make absurd accusations and show your true colors.
 
Lutherf said:
I support free speech. I oppose efforts to disrupt, dissuade or otherwise obstruct free speech.

While I recognize your attempt to paint me as a Nazi sympathizer I also support your right to make absurd accusations and show your true colors.
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Threatening, beating and murdering people isn't "free speech."
 
jimbo said:
Trump said something to the effect that there are good people on both sides. Somehow that's a false equivalency.
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So people interpreted his remarks to mean there are good Nazi's too? Do you think that's a fair interpretation?
 
KLATTU said:
Here's the deal. 95% of liberal reaction coul dbe summed up as follows.

" We Democrats NEED that 90% black voting bloc or we can't anything, so lets all go full pander mode and pretend we all of a sudden need to be worried to death about Nazis"
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Still, though, I've seen no Trump involvement, nor any black faces in the crowd, and yet it's Trump and BLM.
 
MaggieD said:
So people interpreted his remarks to mean there are good Nazi's too? Do you think that's a fair interpretation?
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No I don't. I think President Trump by both sides was referring to left and right sides, and if anything was attempting to distance both sides from the fringes.
 
Lutherf said:
Do you think Trump should visit Charlottesville? It doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

He's going to be in Phoenix next week (unless the Mayor gets his way) and we'll see how that turns out.

Right now there is an absolutely absurd amount of anger directed at the guy and it isn't being directed his way for any rational reason. The risk of violence due to a confrontation between militant left wing activists and anyone who opposes them is significant. A faction in this country has decided that there will be no peace as long as they don't get their way and it isn't the right wing that has taken that position.
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Was it appropriate for him to plug his products and properties? That acceptable to you?
 
Top Cat said:
Her point is a good one. Do we have a Bin Laden statue at ground zero?
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So she JUST figured that out???and is just now outraged by it?
hmmm, interesting . Wonder why we didn't hear a peep from her about this from 2008-2016?
During mommy's campaign?


Maybe she just watched a documentary on the Civil War and the ugly history of Democrats.

LAFF
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Maggie, he absolutely did. Everyone is getting hung up on the "violence on both sides" as how he equated them. But that's not it. If he had just kept his comments to violence, they would have been fine. But he said "Violence and bigotry" on both sides. The bigotry portion of the comment is the problem. One of the major arguments of white nationalists, is the white people are experiencing racism today, when they are not. He basically validated that sentiment however, by claiming the protesters of Nazis are bigoted towards Nazis. It's a false equivalency. I know it's hard sometimes to wade through the bull**** you see said everyday. But there is a reason white nationalists felt vindicated by the President's statements. And it has nothing to do with with the violence of both sides portion of the comment, but rather the bigotry on both sides comment.

And Trump and his supporters are trying to straw man people's issue with his comments away from bigotry and towards the violence. Because it's politically correct to abhor violence, and painting the left as the ones supporting the violence by not agreeing with the President's comments is verbal sleight of hand. I know you don't think protesters of Nazis are just as bigoted as Nazis. Everyone you know, knows that about you I'm betting. Which means you got caught up in the verbal sleight of hand. Happens to the best of us.

If the President had said my child was showing bigotry by protesting Nazi bigotry when she died, I wouldn't want to speak with him either. Not out of anger, but because I wouldn't want to validate the President's statements by giving him another statement to make about his conversation with me, and how great it was. And I can imagine what platitudes and condolences he would give. And I can honestly say, platitudes and condolences hurt. They are stabbing reminders of how real the situation is, that it isn't a dream. And you need to feel like it's a bad dream that will be over in the beginning or you will kill yourself. And while it hurts from the people who mean it, it's insulting from the people who don't. And the President or any politician wanting to meet and talk with her isn't doing it out of sincerity. So no I wouldn't want to participate in a call with the President either. Especially one that equates protesters of bigots, with the bigots they are protesting. Which is exactly what he did.
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I like your post. And I understand. An aside. I don't think the President called her... I think it was a question asked of her. I didn't click the link. But if he did? It would have been a stupid thing to do given public reaction to his comments. 'Course he's known for insensitivity and stupidity, so it wouldn't totally surprise me. In fact, I'd criticize him for it.

Do you think there are plenty of bigots in Antifa and BLM? I think there are, especially the latter. All three groups represented came loaded for bear. Given that belief, it is hard for me to understand why the media focused so laser-like on those comments instead of focusing on the violence itself, and the abject failure of Charlottesville law enforcement.
 
year2late said:
I refuse to believe that!!!!
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Almost certainly not true, unless its from left wingers pretending to be Trump supporters. that alw move all the way.
 
Top Cat said:
Her point is a good one. Do we have a Bin Laden statue at ground zero?
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Klattu's point is also a good one. Those statues were there when daddy became President and when mommy was SOS. Where was Chelsea then?

The statues became bad ideas less than 6 months ago. Right after the battle flag bad idea had run its course. I've sat at the base of Stuart's statue on Monument Avenue eating a hot dog beside blacks eating a hot dog. No punches thrown. Pleasantries only. That's not possible now a year later.
 
jimbo said:
Still, though, I've seen no Trump involvement, nor any black faces in the crowd, and yet it's Trump and BLM.
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BLM was in on it.

White Nationalists, BLM Set To Face Off | The Daily Caller

Here's what one of the dopey organizers said:

“We live in a world where black people are targeted for death and destruction; and in a country where there are hundreds of statues and monuments ... dedicated to the confederacy, we cannot be surprised when moments such as these happen,” the statement says. “Charlottesville is a confirmation of the violence that black people must endure from day to day.”


Scarey world that, huh? black people walking around practiclaly with bullsyes on their backs, target practice for white people.

( VOMIT)

Its sorta true though . Lots of black people are killed every day. By gangs, ie that is other black people.
 
MaggieD said:
So people interpreted his remarks to mean there are good Nazi's too? Do you think that's a fair interpretation?
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Point though. I don't think people interpreted his remarks at all. I think people heard what they wanted to hear. Even if they had to make it up.
 
KLATTU said:
Almost certainly not true, unless its from left wingers pretending to be Trump supporters. that alw move all the way.
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I have no clue if the threats are real or false flag or from the right.

But I am certainly not going to pretend it has to be false flag.

I am for the police investigating and let the truth come out. Are you?
 
year2late said:
I have no clue if the threats are real or false flag or from the right.

But I am certainly not going to pretend it has to be false flag.

I am for the police investigating and let the truth come out. Are you?
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I'm for investigating the police.
 
KLATTU said:
Here's the deal. 95% of liberal reaction coul dbe summed up as follows.

" We Democrats NEED that 90% black voting bloc or we can't anything, so lets all go full pander mode and pretend we all of a sudden need to be worried to death about Nazis"
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And Republicans know they're losing the demographic battle and to continue to win elections they need higher and higher shares of the white population, which they're getting temporarily by appealing to the racist white supremacist block and getting them to the polls. The hard part is keeping the great majority of whites who aren't racist dirtbags - threading the needle.
 
KLATTU said:
BLM was in on it.

White Nationalists, BLM Set To Face Off | The Daily Caller

Here's what one of the dopey organizers said:

“We live in a world where black people are targeted for death and destruction; and in a country where there are hundreds of statues and monuments ... dedicated to the confederacy, we cannot be surprised when moments such as these happen,” the statement says. “Charlottesville is a confirmation of the violence that black people must endure from day to day.”


Scarey world that, huh? black people walking around practiclaly with bullsyes on their backs, target practice for white people.

( VOMIT)

Its sorta true though . Lots of black people are killed every day. By gangs, ie that is other black people.
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An opinion in a paper is not participation. The article has a few errors. It is my understanding that the permits were issued to the alt.right groups and something called Occupy Democrats which bills itself as an outgrowth of OWS and affiliated with the Democrat party. It's stated mission is to counter the tea party.

I got this from the Chartlottesville paper web site a couple days ago. I'm not sure it's still there.

That + my observation that I didn't see black faces in the photos is the basis for my statements.
 
KLATTU said:
Almost certainly not true, unless its from left wingers pretending to be Trump supporters. that alw move all the way.
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Sheesh, of course that's making the rounds. Read last night that some right wing propaganda is now claiming the organizer is a sekret plant of Soros - no kidding - and recruited just enough violent white supremacists to guarantee a violent rally, and what followed, to take down Trump, etc. blah blah.
 
Lutherf said:
Probably a good idea. If she were to accidentally say anything that could in any way be construed to support Trump she might well end up next on the left wing hit list.
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If a mother loses her daughter or son and is too angry to speak to the President who seemed to find more common ground with White Supremacist groups than the woman killed by a Nazi, and if you believe the mother was wrong in her decision, the best thing to do is...be quiet.
 
MaggieD said:
Do you think there are plenty of bigots in Antifa and BLM? I think there are, especially the latter. All three groups represented came loaded for bear. Given that belief, it is hard for me to understand why the media focused so laser-like on those comments instead of focusing on the violence itself, and the abject failure of Charlottesville law enforcement.
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I think anytime you have an us vs them mentality toward a situation, you are engaging in a form of bigotry. The problem with calling Antifa and BLM bigots, is they are being forced into an us vs them situation they would not have chosen on their own, by actual bigots who are choosing to press the issue. Take Black Lives Matter the statement as a for instance. We all know it arose as a protest toward how the justice system is unfairly targeting black communities. Instead of everyone seeing the injustice of the situation, the bigots in the crowd threw up "All lives matter" in response creating an us vs them situation. BLM is not implying all lives do not matter, they are making a case to a specific situation. It was a poster on here who said it best, I can't remember who, whoever it was feel free to chime in and add your two cents. But the gist of what they said boils down to.

If we are all sitting at a table, and dinner is being served. And I take my portion, and others take their portion. And by the time it comes around to you and you get no portion. And you say, I deserve an equal portion. That is fair. But if I respond with, we all deserve an equal portion, and then consider the matter closed without rectifying you getting nothing. That is not fair. And that is what "All lives matter" boils down to. It forces BLM into an us vs them situation, it forces them to defend themselves and attack those who are attacking them. Which gives them the appearance of bigotry, sure. But, when considered in context, they aren't trying to take away from other groups. They only want an equal portion, to which they are entitled. And that isn't bigotry. The only position they are intolerant of, is the one that dismisses them.

It's slightly different with Antifa, because they are intolerant of intolerance in and of itself.

I was recently reading an account of a Charlottesville pastor, a pacifist, who was their protesting that day. He talks about how his mind was changed about Antifa by what he directly witnessed. Him and his congregation were engaging in peaceful protest, when they spotted a group of Nazi's preparing to charge them. Antifa shows up, and prepares to halt that charge. The pastor asks Antifa not to get involved, he doesn't agree with their methods. And Antifa to his surprise backs down, they said they respect his views though they do not agree with them. The Nazi's then charge the line of pacifists and break through, then regroup to do it again. This time Antifa does put themselves in between the Nazis and the pacifist protestors to break that charge.

Now if you caught up with those Antifa members directly after that, and said "I don't agree with what they are saying, but I respect their right to say it." They are going to tell you, you're full of ****. Because Nazis don't care about what anybody says, they don't care if you're pacifist, or how much you respect their rights. If they see you as an obstacle they will hurt you. And that needs to be stopped. Even if it means hurting them. Because you can only watch a group of Nazis charge a group of pacifists one time, before your sense of justice says no more and you feel compelled to step in. And after you step in, you feel the need to keep stepping in, and the need to take initiative to prevent those unwilling to defend themselves on principle from coming to harm. In their minds, it's the job of the pacifists to change hearts and minds, and their job to make sure they aren't silenced before they get the chance. Is that bigotry? In my mind no.
 
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