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Senate Parliamentarian Upends GOP Hopes For Health Bill

It's because the system does not work.....obviously.

Are you even reading my posts?

You seem to have no problem with Donald trump abusing his power and Making a mockery of the system.

If trump is trying to burn down the system, I will be one of the people manning the firehouses trying to save it. Would that make me part of the problem in your eyes?
 
Reform is always possible, revolutions are only called for when the system is tyrannical. Anyone who advocates revolution just because the system dealt you a bad hand is going too far.

If you want a revolution, you have to go through people like me who do not want to see their world get torn apart.



It already has been, the rerigging of the economic system to benefit a few at the expense of society as a whole is a half century on now. America trails Europe in healthcare, social mobility, education and equality to point at just a few areas of social advancement for all.

Take a look across the globe, societies with this level of wealth disparity will eventually devolve into chaos, violence and state oppression, and it is already bearing down on the unsubstantial people of this society. Sooner or later this lethargic apathetic population will figure out what the system is doing to them with their permission and cooperation. And you won't matter.

Tyrannical? You have for profit prisons in a post industrial society where the jobs are not coming back and the system can turn $40-50K/hominid/year. Your police depts have been militarized which is often the case with empires; they eventually turn the aggression abroad to the home front to control the masses. Your for profit health"care" system sentences the unsubstantial people to premature death so industries can maxmize profit and this society sees only the commoditization of its citizens as a way forward.

You'd better hope for another FDR pard, but I do not see that relief valve this time.
 
You seem to have no problem with Donald trump abusing his power and Making a mockery of the system.

If trump is trying to burn down the system, I will be one of the people manning the firehouses trying to save it. Would that make me part of the problem in your eyes?

I am not aware that Trump has abused Presidential powers, which I remind you have been expanding for at least 50 years, with the full consent of the nation. The rules dont change just because you dont like the guy who won the chair fair and square.
 
Really.......You have fun with that.

We members of the Truth Teller Tribe dont work that way, as evidenced by all the times I have jammed Trump.

He seems unphased to me, have you tried tweeting?
 
Your jamming him up might reach him that way, thus far, you seem to have no effect.

I am not aware that Trump tries to use Twitter to listen, it seems to be all about him talking.
 
The fact is anything the GOP proposes that repeals Obamacare will be opposed by the Democrats. Anything the Democrats propose to fix the ACA will be opposed by the Republicans. So the ACA will remain as is, no improvements and no replacement. Time to drop healthcare this year and move on to other things.

Pero, you are so determined to cling to your "both sides do it" narrative you cant even read what you wrote. Yes, democrats don't want to repeal something that has given 20 million people healthcare insurance, lowered the deficit and improved the quality of healthcare. What possible reason can you give to justify the republican position of not wanting to make easy tweaks to Obamacare to make it better. And what you your "both sides do it" narrative does in addition to justify your continued support of republicans is it lets you ignore that not making easy tweaks continues to prove what lying hypocrites republicans are. If as they say they want to improve health care for Americans, why do they continue to push Trumpcare let alone repeal.

Until things/healthcare/the ACA gets so bad, neither side is going to budge. Just drop it, wait and let's see where healthcare, the ACA stands next year.
yep, more excuses to justify republicans proving they are unfit to govern. Dems don't need to budge. the party in control of congress needs to budge off anti-American agenda.
 
Pero, you are so determined to cling to your "both sides do it" narrative you cant even read what you wrote. Yes, democrats don't want to repeal something that has given 20 million people healthcare insurance, lowered the deficit and improved the quality of healthcare. What possible reason can you give to justify the republican position of not wanting to make easy tweaks to Obamacare to make it better. And what you your "both sides do it" narrative does in addition to justify your continued support of republicans is it lets you ignore that not making easy tweaks continues to prove what lying hypocrites republicans are. If as they say they want to improve health care for Americans, why do they continue to push Trumpcare let alone repeal.


yep, more excuses to justify republicans proving they are unfit to govern. Dems don't need to budge. the party in control of congress needs to budge off anti-American agenda.

One advantage of being a Reform Party member is being able to blame both sides when both sides are plain wrong. Those in Washington are too dang busy being Republicans and Democrats that they forgot they are Americans first. What I said is exactly the truth. The Republicans are so messed up, they can't get a thing done. The Democrats just want to protect what is and not lose the name Obamacare, whether it will remain viable or not. It's that simple. But it is impossible for the partisans to remove their deep red or deep blue colored glasses. Neither can see clearly. Just let it drop and let's see where we stand next year.

I will give you this, the ACA is better than any GOP plan so far. I'm against both which I can be because I am not a Republican or Democrat with those blinders on like an old Missouri Mule. Just drop the whole thing and let's see what next year brings.
 
Trump is disputing who gets to decide what gets done, who gets to speak, and what are they allowed to say....and so forth.....that is what his whole POTUS gambit was about from the jump.

And he was beaten by a worthy opponent..... Democracy.
 
.... The Democrats just want to protect what is and not lose the name Obamacare, whether it will remain viable or not. It's that simple. But it is impossible for the partisans to remove their deep red or deep blue colored glasses. Neither can see clearly. Just let it drop and let's see where we stand next year.

I will give you this, the ACA is better than any GOP plan so far. I'm against both which I can be because I am not a Republican or Democrat with those blinders on like an old Missouri Mule. Just drop the whole thing and let's see what next year brings.

Yes, Obamacare is better than anything republicans proposed including their original plan of "status quo". If you acknowledge that why do dems "have blinders on" for trying to keep it? Its the right thing to do. Oh that's right, you have a "reason" to accuse dems of "having blinders on", they don't want to " lose the name Obamacare". sorry guy, if you think that has one thing to do with dems not wanting to repeal Obamacare you're the one with " blinders on like an old Missouri Mule".

Lets take a crack at getting those blinders off you. I think we both agree that 20 million gaining coverage, a lower deficit and higher quality care are good things. Here's another reason to support Obamacare.

In 2001 NHE was 14% of GDP. In 2009, it was 17.3. wow, that's 3.4% of GDP jump. In 2015 its 17.8 %.

https://www.cms.gov/research-statis...enddata/nationalhealthaccountshistorical.html

Healthcare was eating a larger portion of our GDP. Something had to be done. The republican plan of status quo was as usual the wrong plan. Did you know that 2014 had the highest number of start-ups in 20 years? So Obamacare isn't just helping people get insurance, its helping the economy.
 
Trump was chosen by the people, we did this.

Have you a better argument?

...certainly what Putin hopes you believe... We could argue that the electoral college failed to do its job as delineated by Federalist Paper #68.

Now the responsibility falls on Congress and the VP for not taking care of the mess created upstream. But, they will eventually do the right thing as they will have no choice.
 
Yes, Obamacare is better than anything republicans proposed including their original plan of "status quo". If you acknowledge that why do dems "have blinders on" for trying to keep it? Its the right thing to do. Oh that's right, you have a "reason" to accuse dems of "having blinders on", they don't want to " lose the name Obamacare". sorry guy, if you think that has one thing to do with dems not wanting to repeal Obamacare you're the one with " blinders on like an old Missouri Mule".

Lets take a crack at getting those blinders off you. I think we both agree that 20 million gaining coverage, a lower deficit and higher quality care are good things. Here's another reason to support Obamacare.



Healthcare was eating a larger portion of our GDP. Something had to be done. The republican plan of status quo was as usual the wrong plan. Did you know that 2014 had the highest number of start-ups in 20 years? So Obamacare isn't just helping people get insurance, its helping the economy.

The right thing to do is, Yes, keep the ACA for this year. It is better than anything the GOP came up with. Take a good look at it next year. See if the dire predictions of insurance companies come true along with hefty rises in premiums and deductibles. Supposedly there will be around 10 states with just one insurance company to choose from. That isn't a choice, that is a take it, take it by force of law with no alternatives except to go without and pay the fine or fee or whatever.

I want to see what happens next year. Then decide, I don't want to fight to keep something that won't work in the long run. I just want to drop healthcare this year. Keep the ACA as is this year and see what it looks like next year. I heard dire predictions before that didn't happened or come true. Ideally, no AHCA this year, no replacement this year. Next year, let's see where the ACA stands along with predictions of for it in the future. Then go from there.

Okay, I am on the Democrats side this year on keeping the ACA. Actually I am opposing repeal and replace or repeal only. Next year depending on what comes true or not, I will probably be for repealing and replacing the ACA with something better unless the ACA future looks rosy which as of today it does not. I am anti AHCA and anti ACA at the same time. One can be that if one isn't tied lock, stock and barrel to a major political party. One has the freedom to think and make one's mind up on his own instead of relying on a political party to make his mind up for him. One can split their vote between third parties, Republicans and Democrats as I did last year. One can choose the best candidate, not be tied hand and foot to whatever candidate a political party nominates. It's called freedom.
 
The right thing to do is, Yes, keep the ACA for this year. It is better than anything the GOP came up with. Take a good look at it next year. See if the dire predictions of insurance companies come true along with hefty rises in premiums and deductibles. Supposedly there will be around 10 states with just one insurance company to choose from. That isn't a choice, that is a take it, take it by force of law with no alternatives except to go without and pay the fine or fee or whatever.

first its 5. And its no coincidence that 4 of the 5 are red states (and I'm not counting Alaska as a red state). And if that is a concern then you should be mad at republicans for not only not making the easy tweaks but the fact that they've been sabotaging Obamacare specifically to increase premiums and reduce the number of insurers. Trumps threat to not pay the CSR's is documented to be causing insurers to increase premiums and pull out of markets. And that is just one of their ways of undermining Obamacare. And lack of insurers only gets worse with Trumpcare or repeal.

Number of Issuers Participating in the Individual Health Insurance Marketplaces | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Okay, I am on the Democrats side this year on keeping the ACA.

thank you for admitting dems don't have "blinders on like an old Missouri Mule" the way republicans do.

I will probably be for repealing and replacing the ACA with something better unless the ACA future looks rosy which as of today it does not.

that's just it, there is nothing better. Republicans came up with the idea of mandates because it was cheaper than single payer. Their line was for people to have "skin in the game". It appealed to moderates in both parties until 2009. So if they want lower deductibles, premiums go up. If they lower premiums deductibles go up. it is literally impossible for them to come up something that is better and cheaper. And tragically, their plans aren't cheaper or better. So if you don't want single payer then you need to support Obamacare. I prefer Obamacare because I think its better and I don't want republicans controlling the purse strings like they did with the VA.

I am anti AHCA and anti ACA at the same time.

again, this is just your "both sides do it "narrative so you can continue to vote republican. Republicans will continue to sabotage Obamacare causing millions to lose insurance just so they can go "we told you so". Your narrative only empowers republicans to continue their anti-American agenda.
 
first its 5. And its no coincidence that 4 of the 5 are red states (and I'm not counting Alaska as a red state). And if that is a concern then you should be mad at republicans for not only not making the easy tweaks but the fact that they've been sabotaging Obamacare specifically to increase premiums and reduce the number of insurers. Trumps threat to not pay the CSR's is documented to be causing insurers to increase premiums and pull out of markets. And that is just one of their ways of undermining Obamacare. And lack of insurers only gets worse with Trumpcare or repeal.

Number of Issuers Participating in the Individual Health Insurance Marketplaces | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation



thank you for admitting dems don't have "blinders on like an old Missouri Mule" the way republicans do.



that's just it, there is nothing better. Republicans came up with the idea of mandates because it was cheaper than single payer. Their line was for people to have "skin in the game". It appealed to moderates in both parties until 2009. So if they want lower deductibles, premiums go up. If they lower premiums deductibles go up. it is literally impossible for them to come up something that is better and cheaper. And tragically, their plans aren't cheaper or better. So if you don't want single payer then you need to support Obamacare. I prefer Obamacare because I think its better and I don't want republicans controlling the purse strings like they did with the VA.



again, this is just your "both sides do it "narrative so you can continue to vote republican. Republicans will continue to sabotage Obamacare causing millions to lose insurance just so they can go "we told you so". Your narrative only empowers republicans to continue their anti-American agenda.

One doesn't have to be for one and against the other. That in my opinion is a fools choice. That's like having to choose between death by hanging or death by firing squad. One can be against both, the ACA and AHCA and I suppose in theory, one could be for both. People don't have to come down being for one or the other. In fact they don't.

Let's look at the latest YouGov Poll on the ACA.
all Favor 45% Oppose 42%
Democrats Favor 80% Oppose 12%
Republican Favor 15% Oppose 80%
Independents Favor 37% Oppose 43% Neither oppose or favor, don't know, not sure 21%.

21% of all independents which make up 44% of the electorate haven't taken a side.

How about success or failure of the ACA
all adults success 32% failure 37% equally, not a success or failure 18%
Democrats success 62% failure 9% not a success or failure 19%
Republicans success 6% failure 73% neither a success or failure 13%
Independents success 24% failure 35% neither 19%. 21% not sure, don't know, on the fence, not taking a side.

Would Trumpcare or the AHCA make healthcare better or worse. Got to be fair. YouGov didn't ask about favor or oppose
All Adults Better 15%, worst 33%, same 35%
Democrats better 6%, worst 55%, same 27%
Republicans better 32%, worst 10% same 40%
Independents better 11%, worst 30%, same 33% don't know, don't care, not taking a side, sitting on the fence, 27%

You can see not even a majority of Republicans think the AHCA would make healthcare better. So if one can't improve on something, leave it alone. Repealing the ACA only because of a political agenda or a campaign promise if the majority of people are against it, that is not a wise thing to do.

On the other hand, look at how independents view the ACA, Democrats in favor, thinking it a success. Republicans against, thinking it a complete failure. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Look at independents again, no axe to grind or be for something only because a political party told you to be for it or against it. Look at independents, those who can think for themselves and not be told by a political party to be in favor or against..

Independents view the ACA to be slightly more of a failure than a success. Slightly more independent oppose it than are for it. One can be against the AHCA and against the ACA. Republicans and Democrats have a huge stake in all of this, independents don't. I like to throw out how both major parties look at something and take stock of independents who owes no allegiance one way or the other. Free to think for themselves.

Mark this down. If the AHCA goes down to defeat, I hope it does. Next year there were be more than 50% of all Americans opposing the ACA once again. It took the Republicans, Trump, the AHCA to make the ACA kind of popular. Without the AHCA, we'll be back to most opposing the ACA. Call this bedfellows of convince.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/u4wgpax6ng/econTabReport.pdf
 
One doesn't have to be for one and against the other. That in my opinion is a fools choice. That's like having to choose between death by hanging or death by firing squad. One can be against both, the ACA and AHCA and I suppose in theory, one could be for both. People don't have to come down being for one or the other. In fact they don't.

Let's look at the latest YouGov Poll on the ACA.
all Favor 45% Oppose 42%
Democrats Favor 80% Oppose 12%
Republican Favor 15% Oppose 80%
Independents Favor 37% Oppose 43% Neither oppose or favor, don't know, not sure 21%.

21% of all independents which make up 44% of the electorate haven't taken a side.

How about success or failure of the ACA
all adults success 32% failure 37% equally, not a success or failure 18%
Democrats success 62% failure 9% not a success or failure 19%
Republicans success 6% failure 73% neither a success or failure 13%
Independents success 24% failure 35% neither 19%. 21% not sure, don't know, on the fence, not taking a side.

Would Trumpcare or the AHCA make healthcare better or worse. Got to be fair. YouGov didn't ask about favor or oppose
All Adults Better 15%, worst 33%, same 35%
Democrats better 6%, worst 55%, same 27%
Republicans better 32%, worst 10% same 40%
Independents better 11%, worst 30%, same 33% don't know, don't care, not taking a side, sitting on the fence, 27%.......

Pero, since we’ve established that Obamacare is helping people and the economy, there is nothing wrong with calling it a success. "complete failure" is just a lie. they are not "equal but opposite". And you just can’t distill what democrats are saying down to one word as if they are satisfied and don’t want to improve it. Democrats are saying “much better than what we had and could still be better”. Sadly you can say many conservatives believe “complete failure”. Believing that is what allows republicans to not implement easy tweaks.

Conservatives continue to post that it hurts the economy in spite of the evidence to the contrary. And they refuse to acknowledge the fact that 20 million people gained coverage. There are even conservatives who still believe the death panel lie. So I would care what a poll says when republicans and the conservative media stop lying about Obamacare. And you just don’t get to ignore that independents are not immune to the non stop lies from the right. If you believe the truth lies somewhere between an honest and rational discussion of Obamacare and an extremist and dishonest narrative, you won’t be in the middle. There is simply no honest or good reason for republicans not trying to improve it let alone repeal it.

lets look at how Obamacare is helping employers and employees with employer-sponsored health insurance

Menlo Park, Calif. – Annual family premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance rose an average of 3 percent to $18,142 this year, a modest increase at a time when workers’ wages (2.5%) and inflation (1.1%) also grew modestly, according to the benchmark Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2016 Employer Health Benefits Survey released today. Workers on average contribute $5,277 annually toward their family premiums.

This year’s low family premium increase is similar to last year’s (4%) and reflects a significant slowdown over the past 15 years. Since 2011, average family premiums have increased 20 percent, more slowly than the previous five years (31% increase from 2006 and 2011) and more slowly than the five years before that (63% from 2001 to 2006).

Average Annual Workplace Family Health Premiums Rise Modest 3% to $18,142 in 2016;*More Workers Enroll in High-Deductible Plans With Savings Option Over Past Two Years | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

just more success that you and other independent voters don't know about.
 
That certainly is not what the expert Mitch told him, the R's were under the impression they were only going to need 50, the whole plan had always been to get to 50.

This is not in any way Trumps fault.

Its completely Trump's fault. The man has no command of the issue nor any influence in Washington. He has done nothing buy sit on the sideline where he each day is a huge distraction in his own right.
 
Its completely Trump's fault. The man has no command of the issue nor any influence in Washington. He has done nothing buy sit on the sideline where he each day is a huge distraction in his own right.

Oh my..
 
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