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CA Educator: Algebra Is a 'Civil Rights' Issue. Get Rid Of It.

Erod said:
CA Educator: Algebra Is a 'Civil Rights' Issue. Get Rid Of It. | Daily Wire



Liberalism today. Wow.

If you can't pass 8th grade math, you aren't a college graduate regardless of your worthless "diploma".

Lol
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A couple things:
This is a civil rights issue, but this is also something that plagues all Americans — particularly low-income Americans. If you think about all the underemployed or unemployed Americans in this country who cannot connect to a job in this economy — which is unforgiving of those students who don't have a credential — the biggest barrier for them is this algebra requirement. It's what has kept them from achieving a credential.
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This is NOT a civil rights issue, thats just silly. Listen I actually believe there is a sound argument to make more specialized degrees and the education system does need a MAJOR reform we are getting our assess kicked but calling it a civil rights is is NOT the way to drum up support for it. I would hope the majority of americas understand our education system needs revamped but hot words arent the way to do it.

Next this is not "liberalism" please stop with biased partisan nonsensical crap like that it simply taints your post and pollutes honest conversation. Im sure there are millions of liberals that do not want algerbra magically removed nod do they think its a civil rights issue.

Lastly I do honestly believe that part of the revamping is with teachers, not all of course but some.
 
Harshaw said:
The difference, of course, is that this chancellor actually said what he said, whereas conservatives "hating higher education and critical thinking" is just your fantasy.

"Critical thinking," indeed.
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His point was poking at the already stupid OP statement it wasn't meant to be taken seriously(if it was then I agree his comment is just as dumb but going off the context of his post it doesn't seem so) and the critical thinking comes into play in regards to the chancellor. He obviously does NOT represent a whole group of people like liberals. Critical thinking indeed. ;)
 
azgreg said:
Sounds like they need better math teachers.
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This is exactly what the problem is. I took algebra in jr highschool ( it wasn't offerend until 8th grade when I was in school) the teacher was bad. I didn't really get a good handle on it. So I took it again in 9th grade and had another crappy teacher. I wasn't going to take it 3 years in a row so I moved on to advanced Algebra the next year. Yea I know sounds kinda odd but I had heard the teacher knew what he was doing. Well the teacher was an old guy who hit the booze a lot but he did in fact know what he was doing and I finally got it. good math teachers who can do math 'and' can convey that knowledge to students are hard to come by.
 
LaylaWindu said:
A couple things:


This is NOT a civil rights issue, thats just silly. Listen I actually believe there is a sound argument to make more specialized degrees and the education system does need a MAJOR reform we are getting our assess kicked but calling it a civil rights is is NOT the way to drum up support for it. I would hope the majority of americas understand our education system needs revamped but hot words arent the way to do it.

Next this is not "liberalism" please stop with biased partisan nonsensical crap like that it simply taints your post and pollutes honest conversation. Im sure there are millions of liberals that do not want algerbra magically removed nod do they think its a civil rights issue.

Lastly I do honestly believe that part of the revamping is with teachers, not all of course but some.
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Hm. Given the blaming of the system for the failure of individuals, and the emphasis on the importance of credentials, I would say tying this to liberalism is about as fair as tying the Teach-Creationism-In-Schools people to conservatives.
 
Crovax said:
No it's not.
I do have a degree in mathematics, I don't know if that would make me an expert or taint my opinion because math has always been very easy for me.
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I have a fifth grader and I work with College algebra students and professors.

I assure that the algebra covered in the 5th grade is different than what they're doing in College algebra.
 
cpwill said:
Hm. Given the blaming of the system for the failure of individuals, and the emphasis on the importance of credentials, I would say tying this to liberalism is about as fair as tying the Teach-Creationism-In-Schools people to conservatives.
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I would agree, both are extremism and partisan crap. Just like millions of liberals do not want to just stop teaching algebra, millions of conservatives do not want creationism taught in school. Since I lean right I'm one of them.
 
Phys251 said:
I see opinion's such as Oakley's pop up from time to time, and I think they're silly. Learning algebra doesn't just teach you how to solve for x--it teaches you logical, sequential thinking that can be used in a variety of applications.

I believe that a major reason why too many students struggle with algebra is that we have this myth in America of the "math gene," that some people are just naturally good at math and the rest of us are not. This is not a problem in most of the rest of the world, where they believe that math is a skill to be acquired through repeated practice.
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The guy mentioned that folks are using other math programs which to teach these skills.

It's kind of bland reading.
It's not as exciting as the OP article tries to make it out to be.

I provided a link to a transcript of the actual interview upthread if you're interested.
 
Lutherf said:
Another example of the "soft prejudice" of low expectations.
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Is it?

Or is it just leaner, meaner curriculum which focuses more directly on what the student needs?

It really doesn't have to be a partisan issue just because someone writes an article using some trigger words.
 
Here's what got me -

The second thing I'd say is yes, this is a civil rights issue, but this is also something that plagues all Americans — particularly low-income Americans. If you think about all the underemployed or unemployed Americans in this country who cannot connect to a job in this economy — which is unforgiving of those students who don't have a credential — the biggest barrier for them is this algebra requirement. It's what has kept them from achieving a credential.
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The idea that the lack of a credential, and the algebra requirement to achieve that credential, is what's holding people back is shortsighted at best. First off, a credential is a recognition that the holder has achieved a certain level of expertise in a certain discipline. It's not supposed to be easy and, by making it easy, you decrease the value of that credential for all other holders.

Second, as an educator your goal should be to help your students find the proper path to achieve their goals. Lowering the standards is the opposite of achievement. In life we all come across tasks with which we struggle. Learning to overcome that struggle is an important step in personal growth.
 
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Simon W. Moon said:
College Algebra is different than that though.

It gets a little more in depth.
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Not really. My college algebra course was similar to what I learned in high school with a few added things.
The only math course I really had trouble with was trig.

Although I passed calculus 1.

Weird.
 
Phys251 said:
I see opinion's such as Oakley's pop up from time to time, and I think they're silly. Learning algebra doesn't just teach you how to solve for x--it teaches you logical, sequential thinking that can be used in a variety of applications.

I believe that a major reason why too many students struggle with algebra is that we have this myth in America of the "math gene," that some people are just naturally good at math and the rest of us are not. This is not a problem in most of the rest of the world, where they believe that math is a skill to be acquired through repeated practice.



A major goal of upper-level algebra is to serve as a bridge towards calculus. Not everyone is going to need a skill set that strong.
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Actually teachers don't do a good job of explaining it either. I didn't find algebra that hard I thought it was quite easy.
But it is a bridge to calc.

Math requires repeated practice.
I tell my daughter this every time she get frustrated.

Yet what she wants to go into requires a great deal of math.
 
Lutherf said:
Here's what got me -



The idea that the lack of a credential, and the algebra requirement to achieve that credential, is what's holding people back is shortsighted at best. First off, a credential is a recognition that the holder has achieved a certain level of expertise in a certain discipline. It's not supposed to be easy and, by making it easy, you decrease the value of that credential for all other holders.

Second, as an educator your goal should be to help your students find the proper path to achieve their goals. Lowering the standards is the opposite of achievement. In life we all come across tasks with which we struggle. Learning to overcome that struggle is an important step in personal growth.
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I took my boot camp for my PMP. The instructor said right off the bat the test is designed to make you fail.
75% of the people that take the test fail it their first time. It is designed that way because they want to keep a high standard
On people that get the certificate.

Some of the formulas and math etc you had to know algebra to solve.
 
Phys251 said:
The OP was decidedly partisan, yet you choose to ignore this. When you're ready to put aside your partisan bull****, please let me know. I'll be waiting.
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I didn't ignore it. You yourself quoted me as saying:

While it's unfair to paint all "liberals"
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The partisan bull**** really hit high gear when:

Phys251 said:
Since you wanted to make a decidedly nonpartisan issue into one, I thought that it was conservatives who hated higher education and critical thinking. Have they changed their minds?
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I've been addressing what both the OP said and what you said the entire time.

The problem is, you really, really, REALLY hate being taken to task for your overreaches.
 
LaylaWindu said:
His point was poking at the already stupid OP statement it wasn't meant to be taken seriously(if it was then I agree his comment is just as dumb but going off the context of his post it doesn't seem so) and the critical thinking comes into play in regards to the chancellor. He obviously does NOT represent a whole group of people like liberals. Critical thinking indeed. ;)
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And I said that. :shrug: But Phys took it to a whole other level.
 
Grand Mal said:
Most likely? Talk about unsubstantiated smears...
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Considering the extremely small number of conservatives in the faculty of higher education, and an even smaller among the higher administrations of same, and considering the chancellor's basic objection echoes that of much other lefty social thinking, yeah, most likely, as in, approaches 100% certainty.

Besides, is referring to someone as a "lefty" a "smear"? Do tell.
 
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Crovax said:
No it's not.

I do have a degree in mathematics, I don't know if that would make me an expert or taint my opinion because math has always been very easy for me.
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Math is the Language of Science.

As a high school chemistry/physics instructor for 33 years and plenty of action the last 8 in retirement, I loved teaching the algebra and geometry that kids didn't know coming to my classes. (Such as students going into nursing that had to have Chemistry, etc.)

I may have have never been as good as I was in Math without growing up on Air Force Bases; my first grade was the year after Sputnick. We didn't get the history or especially the English training we needed though, with the focus on math and science.

Once the kids understood what slope meant with a Chem/Physics equation, such as speed or density, they got their ah hah moment.

I enjoyed teaching equations backwards from the units of the defined quantity; such as p.s.i. (Pounds PER Square Inch of course) ; pounds = force, square inch = area; Force/Area = Pressure;

dimensional analysis of units is so important; such as defining a liter as a cubic decimeter; to get a mL equal to a cubic centimeter ; I could go on for hours and still really miss full time preparing kids for college ;
 
Lutherf said:
First off, a credential is a recognition that the holder has achieved a certain level of expertise in a certain discipline. It's not supposed to be easy and, by making it easy, you decrease the value of that credential for all other holders.
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You don't wish for things to be arbitrarily difficult, do you?

If you do want things to be arbitrarily difficult, we could add Mandarin and quantum mechanics to the curriculum for an associates degree in hospitality.

If you don't want thing to be arbitrarily hard, then why not let the difficulty come from things that folks will actually be using in their careers?

QUOTE=Lutherf;1067436568] Second, as an educator your goal should be to help your students find the proper path to achieve their goals. Lowering the standards is the opposite of achievement. In life we all come across tasks with which we struggle. Learning to overcome that struggle is an important step in personal growth.[/QUOTE]
Is changing out algebra for something more relevant to the hospitality degree really lowering?
Or is it streamlining?
 
ludin said:
Not really. My college algebra course was similar to what I learned in high school with a few added things.
The only math course I really had trouble with was trig.
Although I passed calculus 1.
Weird.
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In the US, high school not the same as 5th grade.

High school come years after 5th grade here.
 
Harshaw said:
I didn't ignore it. You yourself quoted me as saying:

The partisan bull**** really hit high gear when:

I've been addressing what both the OP said and what you said the entire time.

The problem is, you really, really, REALLY hate being taken to task for your overreaches.
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We are talking about math, Harshaw, how it is taught, and who it is taught to. I swear to God, the Far Right wants to make everything a partisan issue. Hell you guys would make 1+1=2 a partisan issue if you could.

Nothing further you say on this matter deserves to be respected until you put aside your partisan hackery.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I have a fifth grader and I work with College algebra students and professors.

I assure that the algebra covered in the 5th grade is different than what they're doing in College algebra.
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I wouldn't call it different so much as an extension of basic algebra.

Simon W. Moon said:
The guy mentioned that folks are using other math programs which to teach these skills.

It's kind of bland reading.
It's not as exciting as the OP article tries to make it out to be.

I provided a link to a transcript of the actual interview upthread if you're interested.
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I do agree that there may be more effective methods of showing how to solve for an unknown quantity.

Thanks for linking to the interview. I listened to it. There were several flaws in his argument:

(1) Though he denies it, a big part of his motivation is the growing pressure on colleges to graduate more of their students. Removing the difficult course could just as easily be interpreted as watering down the curriculum.

(2) He says that "there are other math courses we could introduce" as replacements for intermediate algebra without mentioning which ones. What problems are they approaching? Is it more application-based? I'm genuinely curious.

I'd like to see which particular algebra skills he thinks should be on the chopping block. For instance, I don't think that every single two-year-college graduate needs to know how to work with logarithms or trig identities. That's the beginning of higher-level math that not everyone is going to need. But basic algebra--solving equations, plotting graphs, interpreting what "slope" means in context--I have no problem expecting college-level students to understand those fundamental concepts.
 
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