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Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens

Chomsky said:
You seem to have reasonable historical perspective on the War on Drugs, in relation to the 4thA.

Perhaps you may be interested in a recent post of mine, on this very subject. Be forewarned, it's long!

DP
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You should get that published!
 
cuban smokes said:
kinda like the immigration thing & nukes too

all of the genies are out of the bottles ..........
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I can see how the druggies would be happy that drugs are flooding society so a little celibrating is expected

But if they also think flooding America with illegal aliens or 10's of millions of refugess from the 3rd world is good or that the spread of nuclear weapons amoung our enemies is good then they are more alien than the immigrants
 
BillRM said:
Well if an American had placed himself on a foreign battlefield fighting the US and her allies I have no problem with killing such a person.

He or she of course could always surrender and then have all the due process of our legal system but not when you are openly in arms against the US.
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What a nice and tidy definition you have created for yourself to be comfortable. Battlefields, fighting and allies are such easy terms to define and they never change.
 
Mac77 said:
As you may have heard there is an epidemic of opiod drug abuse causng more deaths than traffic accidents

Most humans cannot handle addictive drugs
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You mean the drugs that both the drug companies and the doctors are handing out by the billions pills?
 
apdst said:
You want a big, intrusive government. You got it.

Just think of all the additional revenue this will generate. We know you're all about more revenue.
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Four words: Right back at you!
 
RabidAlpaca said:
That is not at all what you said. You said cops can "just tell" who's a criminal. It's also incredibly obvious that you have absolutely no idea how property seizures work for police departments. There is no assumption of guilt, no convictions necessary, just the theft of property from innocent people by the government. That's what Sessions is suggesting more of, and it doesn't matter if you are optimistic or pessimistic about the government, this should concern all Americans.
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For a very short period of time the coast guard was trying to seize mega yachts if on boarding for a 'safety inspection' they would come across one repeat one or less Marijuana cigarette in plain sight.

The whole thing came to a fast end as the owners of mega yachts have high power lawyers and friends in high places.

It was amusing however at the time.

Yacht Carrying Tiny Amount of Pot Confiscated - latimes

MIAMI — The Coast Guard seized a 133-foot yacht valued at $2.5 million after finding one-tenth of an ounce of marijuana aboard, claiming the vessel under a "zero tolerance" crackdown on drugs.

The Ark Royal, registered in Delaware with its home port in Philadelphia, was seized Saturday in international waters between Mexico and Cuba after Coast Guard officers found the butt of a marijuana cigarette in a trash can and a small amount of marijuana in a stateroom, Coast Guard officials here said.

The Coast Guard can legally board U.S.-flagged vessels in international waters. The Coast Guard said it was making a routine document and safety inspection when the marijuana cigarette butt was spotted in the trash can.

No One Arrested

None of the six people aboard the yacht were arrested and prosecution was unlikely because none were actually in possession of the drug, Coast Guard Petty Officer Al Diaz said.


Coast Guard Lt. John Felker said that neither the yacht's registered owner, Michael J. Rogerson, described by the Coast Guard as the president and chief shareholder of Tomima Corp., nor any passengers were on board. Apparently only the crew was on board.

The yacht and crew arrived in Key West late Sunday under Coast Guard escort and it was turned over to the U.S. Customs Service. The Guard can keep the yacht or sell it and keep the proceeds.

Under the zero tolerance policy, the government has warned that any vessel or vehicle carrying controlled substances into the country would be subject to seizure, no matter how small the amount. In the case of drugs found in customs searches, passports and travel documents would be seized and used as evidence in prosecution.

"This new policy should be taken as fair warning to anyone who is using or transporting any detectable amount of drugs on our waterways," Transportation Secretary James H. Burnley IV said last month in a speech in Miami. "We are dead serious about slamming the door on the drug threat in this country."

Coast Guard spokesman Lou Parris said the Coast Guard has seized seven other boats--including two shrimp boats--in the Florida district since April 15. The Ark Royal, Parris said, is believed to be the most valuable of the boats seized so far. About a dozen boats have been seized nationally, he said.

In one of the other seven boardings, the Coast Guard found one marijuana cigarette, a marijuana cigarette butt and some ash, Parris said.

Under the new directive, Parris said, "some things that we had been, by policy, overlooking in the past, we are no longer overlooking." Asked to elaborate, Parris said: "Under the previous policy, the primary thrust was to concentrate on the smugglers, where we're looking for large enough amounts that it was obvious they were importing."

Severe Budget Cuts

The seizure policy comes at a time of severe budget cuts imposed on the Coast Guard. As a result of the January cutbacks, Parris said the Florida Coast Guard district has been forced to decommission several of its older vessels.

"Our drug patrols were affected by the cutback by about 50%," he said. "We've cut cutter days, which means days we patrol. I don't have a total of the patrol days scheduled per month. It's approximately half as many boats out on patrol as we did have."

However, Parris said the Coast Guard is making more seizures.

"Basically, we get between 100 and 120 busts a year on smugglers. In order to do that, we board between 6,000 and 8,000 vessels a year. We're still making as many of those boardings as we can. The only difference is, if there are small amounts, what sometimes is classified as recreational use, we're making seizures at that point, rather than letting them go."
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BillRM said:
Given that a lot of the current problem is due to both the drug companies and the doctors that is funny.

Hell the last time I was in the hospital the doctor ask if I care for a pain prescription and my comment back to him was that I already have enough such unused medical at home that I could supply Rush Limbaugh needs.
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Prescription opiates are a big problem

And I dont have a pat answer to offer
 
Poor coast guard was thinking that they could 'made' enough money that they would no longer need to worry over budget cuts by congress it too bad that they needed to back down on flying the pirate flag.



Ship Seizure Policy Is Revised - NYTimes.com


The program, which began March 21, has been criticized for impounding yachts bearing shreds of marijuana. For example, the Coast Guard seized the $2.5 million yacht Ark Royal in international waters off Mexico after finding less than one-tenth an ounce of marijuana aboard.

Mr. Hoover said that such publicized seizures might have been a factor in revising the guidelines, which was reported in Tuesday's issue of The Washington Post. He mentioned the Ark Royal, where ''the seizure was made on a such a small amount.'' The yacht was returned to her owner after a $1,600 fine was paid.

The seizure policy drew more attention when the charter yacht Monkey Business, which carried former Senator Gary Hart and Donna Rice to Bimini earlier this year, was seized recently when Coast Guard officials found a marijuana cigarette aboard.

So far, more than 1,100 boats, cars and motorcycles have been seized after drugs in any quantity were found on them. The combined value of the vehicles is more than $12 million. NO SOFTENING, DEPARTMENT SAYS
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AliHajiSheik said:
What a nice and tidy definition you have created for yourself to be comfortable. Battlefields, fighting and allies are such easy terms to define and they never change.
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Sorry but I do not foresee us becoming friends with ISIS and such outfits even if you perhaps happen to see that happening.
 
Chomsky said:
Article intro:

(all bolding mine)

I find this last bolded statement startling!

Despite the seemingly hyperbolic article title, I chose this particular article from among many because it goes into depth explaining how the Trump administration is promoting "adoptive forfeiture", in response to the growing number of states that are enacting state legislation which holds state & local law enforcement to higher forfeiture standards than the federal standards.

During the Obama administration, Eric Holder issued a directive in January of 2015 essentially ending these types of seizures, in response to growing complaints by some state legislatures that the "adoptive forfeitures" circumvent state law.



Now the Trump administration is issuing a directive to increase these very types of seizures:



Also from the article, some commentary from an (anti-seizure) attorney:



Source Article: WaPo: Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens

Mirror: Independent UK: Jeff SessionsWants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens
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I always thought that conservatives frowned on "more state" on peoples' backs. :confused:
 
Chomsky said:
Article intro:

(all bolding mine)

I find this last bolded statement startling!

Despite the seemingly hyperbolic article title, I chose this particular article from among many because it goes into depth explaining how the Trump administration is promoting "adoptive forfeiture", in response to the growing number of states that are enacting state legislation which holds state & local law enforcement to higher forfeiture standards than the federal standards.

During the Obama administration, Eric Holder issued a directive in January of 2015 essentially ending these types of seizures, in response to growing complaints by some state legislatures that the "adoptive forfeitures" circumvent state law.



Now the Trump administration is issuing a directive to increase these very types of seizures:



Also from the article, some commentary from an (anti-seizure) attorney:



Source Article: WaPo: Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens

Mirror: Independent UK: Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens
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Freedom! Liberty!.

...well, not for you little people. You can sue us to get your money and property back. Cheers!

I miss Holder's "tyranny" already.
 
Chomsky said:
Article intro:

(all bolding mine)

I find this last bolded statement startling!

Despite the seemingly hyperbolic article title, I chose this particular article from among many because it goes into depth explaining how the Trump administration is promoting "adoptive forfeiture", in response to the growing number of states that are enacting state legislation which holds state & local law enforcement to higher forfeiture standards than the federal standards.

During the Obama administration, Eric Holder issued a directive in January of 2015 essentially ending these types of seizures, in response to growing complaints by some state legislatures that the "adoptive forfeitures" circumvent state law.



Now the Trump administration is issuing a directive to increase these very types of seizures:



Also from the article, some commentary from an (anti-seizure) attorney:



Source Article: WaPo: Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens

Mirror: Independent UK: Jeff Sessions Wants Police to Take More Cash from American Citizens
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This went on for 7 years under the Obama administration since Holders 2015 directive.

This outrage has far more to do with Trump than ot does asset forfeiture
 
Fenton said:
This went on for 7 years under the Obama administration since Holders 2015 directive.

This outrage has far more to do with Trump than ot does asset forfeiture
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I can't speak for others, and I do indeed very much dislike the Trump Presidency, but I can assure you the War on Drugs and 4th amendment violations has been one of my constant criticisms since I've arrived on this board.

And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Do you have cites or stats to back-up your claim?
 
BillRM said:
Sorry but I do not foresee us becoming friends with ISIS and such outfits even if you perhaps happen to see that happening.
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If that is the extent of your understanding of what I presented, then I can't help you.
 
Gaius46 said:
Arrest isn't conviction. And taking property from someone who is arrested may take away their ability to prove their innocence.
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Good point. There should be some happy medium.
 
BillRM said:
For a very short period of time the coast guard was trying to seize mega yachts if on boarding for a 'safety inspection' they would come across one repeat one or less Marijuana cigarette in plain sight.

The whole thing came to a fast end as the owners of mega yachts have high power lawyers and friends in high places.

It was amusing however at the time.
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having any amount of illegal drugs on you isn't worth the risk then.
Here is where it is obvious a crime has been committed, so I would gave to agree with the seizure in that case.
 
holbritter said:
having any amount of illegal drugs on you isn't worth the risk then.
Here is where it is obvious a crime has been committed, so I would gave to agree with the seizure in that case.
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Oh a ship with all kind of people coming aboard an the owner should loss his ship if someone had drop a joint on the desk???????
 
BillRM said:
Oh a ship with all kind of people coming aboard an the owner should loss his ship if someone had drop a joint on the desk???????
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it is a bit extreme. Where would you draw the line? What amount of drugs do you consider acceptable?
 
Chomsky said:
However, you realize the guy in jail could be you, right?

No need to find you guilty in a court of law, or to even find drugs on you. The mere presence of personal cash may be enough to have it and your possessions confiscated.

Are you signing-off on this?
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Many people don't understand that it is in their own personal interest to fight for Constitutional protection of every individual, no matter how much they don't like the individual concerned or her opinions. They could easily be the next with their heds on the block.
 
joG said:
Many people don't understand that it is in their own personal interest to fight for Constitutional protection of every individual, no matter how much they don't like the individual concerned or her opinions. They could easily be the next with their heds on the block.
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I'll go one further:

They should not be fighting for individuals and their rights, but rather they should be fighting for the Constitution itself! :thumbs:
 
joG said:
Many people don't understand that it is in their own personal interest to fight for Constitutional protection of every individual, no matter how much they don't like the individual concerned or her opinions. They could easily be the next with their heds on the block.
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That and the fact that cases that give rise to Constitutional issues often involve people a lot of us would probably not associate with. People take the view that "he's a scumbag criminal so I don't care" without realizing that the decisions made in the case regarding that scumbag directly impact on their lives.
 
holbritter said:
it is a bit extreme. Where would you draw the line? What amount of drugs do you consider acceptable?
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As I think the so call drug wars had been proven to be pointless so for myself no amount of drugs would call for criminal actions of any nature.

All the billions of dollars of resources spend on these so call drug wars had not stop one person from being able to buy any kind of drug that he or she would care to buy.

I am not a drug user but I would off hand bet you large amounts of money that I could get into my car and find a seller of any common street drugs in less time then it would take to drive to Walgreens to buy a bottle of aspirin.

The less common drugs would likely be found the fastest on the dark net.

In any case, the government can not even stop state prisoners from getting drugs inside prisons with the latest means is flying drugs in by way of drones.
 
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