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Poll: Most Republicans say colleges have negative impact on US

upsideguy said:
The uneducated voter has been a core block of the Republican party.
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I hate to pierce an arrow through the pathetic armor of your argument but:

In NJ Sussex County had a 97% highschool graduation rate & voted 62% Republican
In NJ Camden County had a 51% graduation rate & voted 87% Democrat
 
slick said:
I hate to pierce an arrow through the pathetic armor of your argument but:

In NJ Sussex County had a 97% highschool graduation rate & voted 62% Republican
In NJ Camden County had a 51% graduation rate & voted 87% Democrat
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Well, rest easy. I know its it not easy living with things you know you hate. But, you have merely provided anecdotes, which are not an argument. What you just offered up is no different than if you told me you uncle, who has 5 PhD's and is on the faculty of Harvard, voted for Trump. Great, the proves nothing more your uncle, who is educated, voted for Trump. It makes no other valid statement about the average Trump voter. It is an example of one, which does not refute an argument of many.

Yes, some educated people voted for Trump (whether or not these educated people could also be considered 'smart' people is another discussion). That fact does not negate my statement that "the uneducated voter is a core block of the Republican Party."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/07/us/how-trump-can-win.html
Republicans' White Working-Class Trap: A Growing Reliance : NPR

Your weak 'arrow' fell harmlessly (and aimlessly) to the ground. The armor was not even scratched.

Armor.jpg



Two great resources for next time, however:

How to Build Your Own Arrows - Bowhunter
Debating | A free how-to guide
 
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KLATTU said:
Yet they still make way more money than Democrats. So much for education . LAFFRIOT
Financially, Republicans fare better than either Democrats or Independents, and tend to identify themselves as such. Republican candidates gain a significantly higher percentage of votes from individuals with incomes over $50,000 per year, and the advantage increases along with the income level, to a height of 63 percent of individuals earning $200,000 or more a year supporting Republicans..

SCOREBOARD BABY!
https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/economic-demographics-republicans/
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Wow, you actually view wealth as a positive characteristic of the Republican Party. Very interesting. It's well-known that most 1%ers are Republican. They buy political influence through organizations like Judicial Watch, the Heritage Foundation, Breitbart, FOX and many others. Their anger-inducing-anti-government-rhetoric is redefining America with bipartisanship. And they are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Media_Truth said:
Wow, you actually view wealth as a positive characteristic of the Republican Party. ank.
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Wealth is HORRIBLE, since it is gained off the back of the poor!
 
KLATTU said:
Wealth is HORRIBLE, since it is gained off the back of the poor!
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I couldn't agree more. So why do you back the 1%ers, who practice such debauchery.
 
I think its a little simplistic to look at these numbers and declare Republicans as anti-education. Some are, sure, but I don't think its anywhere near the majority. Most Republicans I know still want their kids to attend college. But I think those on the right (and some on the left as well) see some growing problems with how higher education works in this country.

Some have already mentioned the fact that academia tends to be populated by those that slant left. And college campuses are often the source of the some of the most objectionable/fringe ideas of the political correctness/social justice movement. So right wingers are naturally going to have more built in distrust of college as an institution. But I think there is something else in play here as well.

College is no longer the all but guaranteed ticket to the upper middle class and beyond. Its all too common to see kids graduate nowadays with a degree and six figures worth of debt and not be able to find a job in their field. And I'm talking about people with practical degrees, not degrees in Medieval French Lit or Gender Studies. People with degrees in business or computer science. And even more people end up having jobs totally unrelated to their degrees. My 2 brothers have 3 degrees between them and none of those degrees are even remotely related to their current careers. My wife's degree is connected to her job in only the loosest sense possible.

Not too mention more and more companies are requiring degrees for jobs that never had that requirement for reasons that aren't very clear. My wife's company made that change a while back. To get hired by them you must have a degree. The crazy part is it doesn't matter what your degree is in. Their entry level positions are generally in customer service/tech support. Its not an easy job, but its doable by any person with the right temperment and a reasonable amount of intelligence. Someone with 10 years experience in that field and excellent references but no degree can't get hired, but someone fresh out of college with the oh so useful Medieval French Lit degree could. In fact most of the new hires don't have degrees that don't relate to the job. How does any of that make sense or make for a better work force? In fact the turn over rate is extremely high among the new hires because many leave the second they find something related to their degree.

College degrees are becoming less and less useful and are costing more than ever. Does that mean college overall is having a negative impact? No, but its benefits are declining, its costs are increasing, and for some folks it can be a negative. I'm not sure how this poll was conducted but if it was a simple "Is College a Negative or Positive?" I might be tempted to answer negative. Not because I really feel that when taken as a whole college is negatively impacting society, but because I see some growing problems with the way college works and answering "positive" would feel like endorsing a system that is moving in the wrong direction. If I answer negative, even if I know its overstating my concerns, it feels like I at least got my concerns "on the record".
 
Psychoclown said:
I think its a little simplistic to look at these numbers and declare Republicans as anti-education. Some are, sure, but I don't think its anywhere near the majority. Most Republicans I know still want their kids to attend college. But I think those on the right (and some on the left as well) see some growing problems with how higher education works in this country.

Some have already mentioned the fact that academia tends to be populated by those that slant left. And college campuses are often the source of the some of the most objectionable/fringe ideas of the political correctness/social justice movement. So right wingers are naturally going to have more built in distrust of college as an institution. But I think there is something else in play here as well.

College is no longer the all but guaranteed ticket to the upper middle class and beyond. Its all too common to see kids graduate nowadays with a degree and six figures worth of debt and not be able to find a job in their field. And I'm talking about people with practical degrees, not degrees in Medieval French Lit or Gender Studies. People with degrees in business or computer science. And even more people end up having jobs totally unrelated to their degrees. My 2 brothers have 3 degrees between them and none of those degrees are even remotely related to their current careers. My wife's degree is connected to her job in only the loosest sense possible.

....

College degrees are becoming less and less useful and are costing more than ever. Does that mean college overall is having a negative impact? No, but its benefits are declining, its costs are increasing, and for some folks it can be a negative. I'm not sure how this poll was conducted but if it was a simple "Is College a Negative or Positive?" I might be tempted to answer negative. Not because I really feel that when taken as a whole college is negatively impacting society, but because I see some growing problems with the way college works and answering "positive" would feel like endorsing a system that is moving in the wrong direction. If I answer negative, even if I know its overstating my concerns, it feels like I at least got my concerns "on the record".
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Good points, no doubt. I also agree with your statement that most Republicans are not against education. But I believe that most ALT Right Republicans are against it, and I'm seeing more and more of the ALT Right. However, I will add two things. My background is a BS in Electrical Engineering, and I worked my career in Electrical Engineering, predominantly for a Fortune 500 company, but also others.

First, a College degree is usually NOT about learning what you will be using in later jobs. It is more about learning how to learn. It is about learning to apply one's talents and gifts, to function at a high level. These gifts are different for different folks. Some are better analytically, while some excel in memory, and others have gifts in the Arts. In my case, I learned a lot of Engineering and Mathematical theory in College, and I've used very little of that in my later jobs. However, the same mechanisms and habits (mostly good:), that I used in College, were also used in my worklife, to grasp complex conceptual ideas, in both an individual and team environment.

Secondly, I will agree that some folks can accomplish the same, without a College degree. However, in Engineering, most who graduate with degrees from accredited Universities, have gone through this rigorous weeding-out process, and have proven their abilities. And this is my main point. This "learning how to learn" is the most applicable lesson learned in College.

Thirdly, when I drive over a bridge, I'm glad that Engineers were involved in the design. When I walk into a Powerhouse control room with 13.8 KVolt equipment, I'm glad that Engineers were involved in the design. When I go to a Doctor, I'm glad that they went through rigorous College and Med School training.
 
cuban smokes said:
Poll: Most Republicans say colleges have negative impact on US

07/10/17 01:49 PM EDT

Poll: Most Republicans say colleges have negative impact on US | TheHill


A majority of Republicans in a new survey think colleges and universities have a negative effect on the U.S.

The Pew Research Center poll finds 58 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents think colleges and universities hurt the country.

Just 36 percent of Republicans think they have a positive effect.

In contrast, a large majority of Democrats, 72 percent, say colleges and universities have a positive effect on the country.
Overall, slightly more than half of the public, 55 percent, thinks colleges and universities help the U.S., according to the survey.

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well, I guess it's true, the 'Trump demographic' truly is for the dumbing down of America; I knew it all along ............
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I am offended by this post.

I AM OFFENDED BY THIS POST. THIS POSTER HAS COMMITTED VIOLENCE AND MADE ME FEEL UNSAFE. I DEMAND WE SHUT THIS POSTER DOWN UNTIL HE ATTENDS TRAINING ON HOW NOT TO OFFEND ME, AND I AM HIRED TO BE A COORDINATOR OF NOT-OFFENDING-ME-ACTIVITIES!!!!!




Yeah. Gosh. Hard to imagine how people don't see how that's worth skyrocketing costs and massive debt.....
 
Media_Truth said:
Wow, you actually view wealth as a positive characteristic of the Republican Party. Very interesting. It's well-known that most 1%ers are Republican. They buy political influence through organizations like Judicial Watch, the Heritage Foundation, Breitbart, FOX and many others. Their anger-inducing-anti-government-rhetoric is redefining America with bipartisanship. And they are laughing all the way to the bank.
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While, as a conservative, I enjoy the accusation that all the successful, disciplined, and intelligent people are on my side...


.... I am not convinced at all that it is accurate; and would steer you to places such as Silicon Valley, Hollywood, and New York as a counter.
 
KLATTU said:
Yet they still make way more money than Democrats. So much for education . LAFFRIOT
Financially, Republicans fare better than either Democrats or Independents, and tend to identify themselves as such. Republican candidates gain a significantly higher percentage of votes from individuals with incomes over $50,000 per year, and the advantage increases along with the income level, to a height of 63 percent of individuals earning $200,000 or more a year supporting Republicans..

SCOREBOARD BABY!
https://www.debt.org/faqs/americans-in-debt/economic-demographics-republicans/
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Nothing turns a liberal into a conservative quicker than realizing they've got serious money. I offer PJ O'Rourke as an example.
 
Why is this even a thing? Every other country in the world is proud of their universities, counts their university graduates as assets to their nation, points proudly to the age and antiquity of their university tradition. Every country that has universities, that is.
Anybody that considers that universities have a negative impact on their country is so ignorant that their ignorance should disqualify them from voting. They're a deficit and danger to their society.
 
joG said:
Though I definitely don't agree with the Republican majority on that point, I very well understand how they could get that impression. It has been largely smooth talking university people that have led the liberal pc overshoot and pushed aside constitutional protections as well as outsourcing production. They stand for much of what the many conservatives identify as having hurt the country. They have never really explained to the lesser educated, why the think that their policies are good other than by way of slick populisms.
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Give me a break. Since when have "conservatives" opposed free trade agreements, offshoring, etc.? Never. The GOP exists in modern times to cross off the agenda of the Fortune 500 and the Chamber of Commerce. I'll concede that's largely the role of the Democratic policy in practice, but I'm not ignorant or biased enough to assert this is a problem limited to only one party or ideology.
 
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