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US F-35 fighters to train near Russia

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JehunKosdi

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The US Air Force is sending its newest F-35 fighter jets to Russia's doorstep as part of a program set up after Russia annexed Crimea from the Ukraine in 2014, a US official tells CNN.

 
JehunKosdi said:
The US Air Force is sending its newest F-35 fighter jets to Russia's doorstep as part of a program set up after Russia annexed Crimea from the Ukraine in 2014, a US official tells CNN.

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Well, had Ukraine been part of Nato with military bases there, Crimea would be part of Ukraine and Russia would not have commited the crime of grabbing it by force.
 
JehunKosdi said:
The US Air Force is sending its newest F-35 fighter jets to Russia's doorstep as part of a program set up after Russia annexed Crimea from the Ukraine in 2014, a US official tells CNN.

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we shuld be workin closely with our ally russia to bring piece to tha world. crimea choze to leave n move to mother Russia. ukraine just mad
 
11Bravo said:
we shuld be workin closely with our ally russia to bring piece to tha world. crimea choze to leave n move to mother Russia. ukraine just mad
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Russia is not our ally. Putin is a criminal.
 
joG said:
Well, had Ukraine been part of Nato with military bases there, Crimea would be part of Ukraine and Russia would not have commited the crime of grabbing it by force.
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Sorry man, but Russia did not grab anything without the approval of Crimeans....overwhelmingly.

Crimeans vote over 90 percent to quit Ukraine for Russia | Reuters

And about a year later, Crimeans were still overwhelmingly happy with the move.

'In February 2015, a poll by German polling firm GfK revealed that attitudes have not changed. When asked “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?”, a total of 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% answered “yes, for the most part.” Only 2% said they didn't know, and another 2% said no. Three percent did not specify their position.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...ea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#2f3c2fb8510d


Putin may be a criminal, but 'taking' the Crimea was with the mass approval of the locals.

And as far as I am concerned, if ANY large region votes over 90% to leave, they should be allowed to leave.
 
joG said:
Well, had Ukraine been part of Nato with military bases there, Crimea would be part of Ukraine and Russia would not have commited the crime of grabbing it by force.
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What about the crime of the U.S. backing an illegal overthrow of a legitimately elected President and backing actual Nazis to do it? Does that not count for anything?
 
Im sure the Russians must be licking their chops to prove what a crappy fighter the F-35 is. Once a couple of these planes gets "shot" down I bet Trump will withdraw them.
 
PoS said:
Im sure the Russians must be licking their chops to prove what a crappy fighter the F-35 is. Once a couple of these planes gets "shot" down I bet Trump will withdraw them.
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Do you think it could come to that?
 
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DA60 said:
Do you think is could come to that?
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I hope not. I don't think it will happen as the Russians aren't about to make such a tactical blunder.
 
PoS said:
Im sure the Russians must be licking their chops to prove what a crappy fighter the F-35 is. Once a couple of these planes gets "shot" down I bet Trump will withdraw them.
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I'm sure the powers that be will babysit the F-35's with an appropriate contingent of F-22's for the light work.
 
DA60 said:
Do you think it could come to that?
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When you start putting troops close to each other like that, an incident has a high likelihood of exploding. There was a reason why we didnt go head to head with each other during the Cold War- the closest was the Cuban missile crisis- and that very nearly led to WW3.
 
danarhea said:
Russia is not our ally. Putin is a criminal.
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Ain't it funny how well we do at ISS with our enemy?

Does Putin's criminality outshine ours, or vice versa?
 
Fishking said:
What about the crime of the U.S. backing an illegal overthrow of a legitimately elected President and backing actual Nazis to do it? Does that not count for anything?
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Our criminals are more sophisticated and brazen than the Russian criminals.
 
DA60 said:
Sorry man, but Russia did not grab anything without the approval of Crimeans....overwhelmingly.

Crimeans vote over 90 percent to quit Ukraine for Russia | Reuters

And about a year later, Crimeans were still overwhelmingly happy with the move.

'In February 2015, a poll by German polling firm GfK revealed that attitudes have not changed. When asked “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?”, a total of 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% answered “yes, for the most part.” Only 2% said they didn't know, and another 2% said no. Three percent did not specify their position.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...ea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/#2f3c2fb8510d


Putin may be a criminal, but 'taking' the Crimea was with the mass approval of the locals.

And as far as I am concerned, if ANY large region votes over 90% to leave, they should be allowed to leave.
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Maybe and may be not. But invading a country and incorporating it into you empire is a definite crime of the highest order by international standards. Mentioning a market research company's opinion panel in a country occupied by an invading autocrat is not viable other than as an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. The idea is bizarre in any but post reality way of thinking.

There is good political science, game theory and empirical history reason why this is proscribed. Don't you realize that allowing that precedent is tantamount to allowing countries going back to empire building like in the centuries prior to 1945?
 
Fishking said:
What about the crime of the U.S. backing an illegal overthrow of a legitimately elected President and backing actual Nazis to do it? Does that not count for anything?
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Which do you mean?
 
Fishking said:
What about the crime of the U.S. backing an illegal overthrow of a legitimately elected President and backing actual Nazis to do it? Does that not count for anything?
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"Nazis"

Yeah except the part where the Ukrainian nationalist party received some of the lowest levels of support during and after the Ukrainian Revolution.

It astounds me the level of apologism people will provide for Russia.
 
joG said:
Maybe and may be not. But invading a country and incorporating it into you empire is a definite crime of the highest order by international standards. Mentioning a market research company's opinion panel in a country occupied by an invading autocrat is not viable other than as an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. The idea is bizarre in any but post reality way of thinking.

There is good political science, game theory and empirical history reason why this is proscribed. Don't you realize that allowing that precedent is tantamount to allowing countries going back to empire building like in the centuries prior to 1945?
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Well, they did not invade the Crimea. They already had thousands of troops legally based there at their huge Sevastopol naval base.

After the referendum - which had an over 90% result (backed up by numerous polls months/years later) - they fanned out to stop the Ukrainian military from forcing the Crimea to stay...even though almost none of them wanted to.
And thank goodness they did. If they had not, the same horror show that is going on in the Donetsk region would probably be happening to this day in the Crimea.

I am no fan of Putin at all. But it is clear that over 90% of Crimeans wanted to join Russia (and are glad they did).

Other countries freaked out about it for one reason...they were terrified of the same thing happening in their countries (minus Russian assistance). But Canada only requires a 2/3'rds vote - plus some separate issues - to leave from one of it's provinces. And if a country as incredibly civilized as Canada allows it - than that should be good enough for the Ukraine (which - btw - is falling apart economically).
 
joG said:
Which do you mean?
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The Kiev government we backed in their illegal overthrow in Ukraine who have committed war crimes.
 
Fishking said:
Awww...you're parroting what you've been propagandized to parrot. Glad to see you supporting the war criminals that is the Kiev government.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians
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Aw, look at you trying to be edgy!

Firing rocket artillery that inadvertently kills civilians is a regrettable affair, but that doesn't make the Ukrainians Nazis nor cancel out the blatant transgression that transpired when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine.

The Ukrainians are not alone in their war crimes, but of course that doesn't matter to you, right?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Aw, look at you trying to be edgy!

Firing rocket artillery that inadvertently kills civilians is a regrettable affair, but that doesn't make the Ukrainians Nazis nor cancel out the blatant transgression that transpired when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine.

The Ukrainians are not alone in their war crimes, but of course that doesn't matter to you, right?
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I'm sorry, but did you just say war crimes are a regrettable affair?
 
PoS said:
Im sure the Russians must be licking their chops to prove what a crappy fighter the F-35 is. Once a couple of these planes gets "shot" down I bet Trump will withdraw them.
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I do not think it will come to that unless we go to war in syria, go to war directly with russia, or we fly into their airspace. Usually if anyone flies military jets in someone elses air space, the host country informs them that they must leave, or that they will be shot down, or they will be escorted to host countries airbase and questioned of they are nice. If they are not they would just shoot them down.

Russia and america have been quite tolerant with eachother over airspace, during the cold war both pushed limits on sovereign airspace, and when it came down to it both sides seemed to not shoot eachother down, it may be over being rational, but most likely it was nuclear war as a deterrant more than anything.

In an air battle, it depends on what is used, in most cases the f-35 would beat the russian jets. However our main air fleet is far behind the russians, has nothing to do with tech as much as russia improved their jets after the cold war, while we went still on improvement, as none of our post war enemies have had real jetfighter capabilities, but if russia was deemed as a threat, that would change quick, and the f-35 would see quicker adoption as well as modernizations to the rest of the fleet.
 
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