At Claremont McKenna, the left again shuts down free speech.

Grim17 · Apr 12, 2017

This time the left and their Black Lives Matter supporters shut down a speech by "The War on Cops" author Heather MacDonald.

The thought of people being exposed to actual facts, which of course threatens their phony narrative, was more than they could stand, so in typical anti-American fashion they did everything they could to shut the woman up.

This revolt against free speech is really getting out of hand.

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Fishking · Apr 12, 2017

I wouldn't mind bringing back mounted police back into use for situations like this.

Grim17 · Apr 12, 2017

Fishking said:
I wouldn't mind bringing back mounted police back into use for situations like this.

Police are usually there, but the universities typically refuse to allow them to take any action against these mobs.

It's ridiculous.

This woman was there to give a speech loaded with facts based on actual crime statistics from Department of Justice, in order to dispel the misinformation being used to justify violence against law enforcement by organisations like Black Lives Matter. How can these people label factual crime statistics as hate speech?

Once again I have to ask, where in the hell are the leaders of the liberal/progressive movement? This was a pre-planned event, so why didn't they step in and take measures to prevent this fascist, anti-American mob from pulling this **** in the first place? Why don't they publicly denounce this crap?

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the left and in the democratic party, are quite content with the use of violence to stifle speech they disagree with.

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RabidAlpaca · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
This time the left and their Black Lives Matter supporters shut down a speech by "The War on Cops" author Heather MacDonald.
The thought of people being exposed to actual facts, which of course threatens their phony narrative, was more than they could stand, so in typical anti-American fashion they did everything they could to shut the woman up.
This revolt against free speech is really getting out of hand.

That's not how the 1st amendment works, your fellow citizens have every right to protest you. Considering she's on live national TV I don't know how you can possibly pretend she's being silenced. Frankly, someone categorically stupid enough to go around announcing that there is no racial bias in our justice system isn't to be taken seriously in the first place.

Grim17 said:
Police are usually there, but the universities typically refuse to allow them to take any action against these mobs.
It's ridiculous.
This woman was there to give a speech loaded with facts based on actual crime statistics from Department of Justice, in order to dispel the misinformation being used to justify violence against law enforcement by organisations like Black Lives Matter. How can these people label factual crime statistics as hate speech?

Oh? And what are those rock-hard statistics that show racism is dead in America and our justice system works equally well for all races? Please present it so we can see it.

Grim17 said:
Once again I have to ask, where in the hell are the leaders of the liberal/progressive movement? This was a pre-planned event, so why didn't they step in and take measures to prevent this fascist, anti-American mob from pulling this **** in the first place? Why don't they publicly denounce this crap?
If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the left and in the democratic party, are quite content with the use of violence to stifle speech they disagree with.
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Wait, so right after you declare this protest as "the left", you admit that there are no leaders from the left that organized this? Why haven't GOP leaders actively involved themselves in KKK matters to better control their supporters? If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the right and in the GOP are quite content with the use of violence to stifle minorities they disagree with.

Trippy Trekker · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
Police are usually there, but the universities typically refuse to allow them to take any action against these mobs.

It's ridiculous.

This woman was there to give a speech loaded with facts based on actual crime statistics from Department of Justice, in order to dispel the misinformation being used to justify violence against law enforcement by organisations like Black Lives Matter. How can these people label factual crime statistics as hate speech?

Once again I have to ask, where in the hell are the leaders of the liberal/progressive movement? This was a pre-planned event, so why didn't they step in and take measures to prevent this fascist, anti-American mob from pulling this **** in the first place? Why don't they publicly denounce this crap?

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the left and in the democratic party, are quite content with the use of violence to stifle speech they disagree with.

.
.

What a cop out. You totally fail to see the irony of you doing nothing to protect a member of your political family, Heather, then you blame unnamed Leftist Leaders for not stopping her detractors.

Picture this scenario - Don't blame me for failing to provide care and welfare for my children. That responsibility lies elsewhere.

Erod · Apr 12, 2017

Of course liberals hate cops.

Liberals are the reason we NEED cops.

Grim17 · Apr 12, 2017

RabidAlpaca said:
That's not how the 1st amendment works, your fellow citizens have every right to protest you. Considering she's on live national TV I don't know how you can possibly pretend she's being silenced.

They have every right to protest, but not to prevent people from speaking, or prevent people from listening to a speaker, just because they disagree or don't like what someone is saying.

That's what's at issue here.

Frankly, someone categorically stupid enough to go around announcing that there is no racial bias in our justice system isn't to be taken seriously in the first place.

The topic of her speech and it's content are irrelevant. If people disagree, that's fine... but stifling speech you disagree with is just plain un-American and goes against what this country stands for.

Oh? And what are those rock-hard statistics that show racism is dead in America and our justice system works equally well for all races? Please present it so we can see it.

Is that what she said? Does the phrase "red herring" mean anything to you?

Here's here speech. Please point out where she said any of those things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfX5UCAe3A

Wait, so right after you declare this protest as "the left", you admit that there are no leaders from the left that organized this?

Only thing is, I never said that... But you go ahead and keep dancing around the subject, since you know damned well you can't defend their actions.

Why haven't GOP leaders actively involved themselves in KKK matters to better control their supporters?

Another red herring... Nice.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the right and in the GOP are quite content with the use of violence to stifle minorities they disagree with.

Red herring.... Anyone? Anyone?

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Grim17 · Apr 12, 2017

Trippy Trekker said:
What a cop out. You totally fail to see the irony of you doing nothing to protect a member of your political family, Heather, then you blame unnamed Leftist Leaders for not stopping her detractors.

That's a new dodge... LMAO

So instead of denouncing or stopping leftist mobs from using violence and threats of violence to stifle free speech that they disagree with, you think that instead, people on the right should form their own mob and start a riot.

Thank you for the honesty... We need more of that from the left so America can know exactly what you all stand for.

Picture this scenario - Don't blame me for failing to provide care and welfare for my children. That responsibility lies elsewhere.

LMMFAO... Talk about a bunch of nonsense...

.

faithful_servant · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
Police are usually there, but the universities typically refuse to allow them to take any action against these mobs.

It's ridiculous.

This woman was there to give a speech loaded with facts based on actual crime statistics from Department of Justice, in order to dispel the misinformation being used to justify violence against law enforcement by organisations like Black Lives Matter. How can these people label factual crime statistics as hate speech?

Once again I have to ask, where in the hell are the leaders of the liberal/progressive movement? This was a pre-planned event, so why didn't they step in and take measures to prevent this fascist, anti-American mob from pulling this **** in the first place? Why don't they publicly denounce this crap?

If I didn't know better, I'd say that the powers that be on the left and in the democratic party, are quite content with the use of violence to stifle speech they disagree with.

.
.

That's been my question for quite a while and I've NEVER gotten an answer for it. We have people carrying out riots in support of Dem. causes and there is a deafening silence from any significant leaders on the left. We have people working to silence voices they disagree with and the party that used to champion opposition to this kind of thing is silent on the issue.

RabidAlpaca · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
They have every right to protest, but not to prevent people from speaking, or prevent people from listening to a speaker, just because they disagree or don't like what someone is saying.
That's what's at issue here.
The topic of her speech and it's content are irrelevant. If people disagree, that's fine... but stifling speech you disagree with is just plain un-American and goes against what this country stands for.

The protestors didn't cancel the meeting, someone else decided to because of the protestors. You're free as an American to protest anyone you want, and we're not going to clamp down on Americans' rights because you feel you need a safe space.

Grim17 said:
Is that what she said? Does the phrase "red herring" mean anything to you?
Here's here speech. Please point out where she said any of those things.

Yes, she said the Black Lives Matter movement was illegitimate because there is no racial disparity in the judicial system, and you then backed her up by saying all the "facts" and "statistics" she was presented showed that to be the case. Where's the evidence?

Grim17 said:
Only thing is, I never said that... But you go ahead and keep dancing around the subject, since you know damned well you can't defend their actions.
Another red herring... Nice.
Red herring.... Anyone? Anyone?
.

Considering I directly quoted you on those things and just changed some nouns, that means half of what you said was a ridiculous red herring. You've done nothing to show that "the left" had anything to do with planning this, nor are any "left leaders" responsible. It seems you can say any dumb thing you want without sourcing or explaining any of it, but if anyone turns your arguments around you throw up your hands and yell "RED HERRING!". Kinda pathetic.

faithful_servant said:
That's been my question for quite a while and I've NEVER gotten an answer for it. We have people carrying out riots in support of Dem. causes and there is a deafening silence from any significant leaders on the left. We have people working to silence voices they disagree with and the party that used to champion opposition to this kind of thing is silent on the issue.

Why aren't we hearing many (or any) GOP leaders denouncing the KKK and other white supremacy groups? According to you and Grim it's incumbent on them to do so and their silence makes them complicit.

Harshaw · Apr 12, 2017

RabidAlpaca said:
The protestors didn't cancel the meeting, someone else decided to because of the protestors. You're free as an American to protest anyone you want, and we're not going to clamp down on Americans' rights because you feel you need a safe space.

That's not what happened.

Not so at Claremont McKenna on Thursday night. The assembled protesters surrounded the doors to the building where Mac Donald was slated to speak, thereby preventing other students from attending the event. Instead, organizers livestreamed Mac Donald's talk so that interested parties could watch it online.

But even that did not satisfy the protesters.

"During my speech, the protesters banged on the glass windows and shouted," wrote Mac Donald in an email. "It was extremely noisy inside the hall. I took two questions from students who were watching on livestream, but then the cops decided that things were getting too chaotic and I should stop speaking."

Police officers smuggled Mac Donald out of the building through a backdoor, which surprised the protesters and allowed her to escape.

Also:

One professor claimed, in an email to the Claremont administration, that he was physically assaulted by protesters as he tried to enter the building to hear Mac Donald speak.

And the group which protested has a specific goal -- to "shut down" those it deems "fascists."

The protest was evidently organized by a Facebook group called "Shutdown Anti-Black Fascists." A post about the protest suggested that students were involved—it urged white students to form a buffer between black students and the police. The group also implored protesters not to cooperate with reporters from the Claremont Independent, according to Campus Reform.

Claremont McKenna Students, Silencing Heather Mac Donald Is the Stupidest Way to Battle The War on Cops - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Is this all behavior you approve of? Do you find this behavior to be respectful of free speech? Do you find it constructive?

Grim17 · Apr 12, 2017

RabidAlpaca said:
The protestors didn't cancel the meeting, someone else decided to because of the protestors. You're free as an American to protest anyone you want, and we're not going to clamp down on Americans' rights because you feel you need a safe space.

Protesting is fine, but their goal was to prevent the woman from speaking and to prevent students and faculty from attending... both of which they accomplished.

Do you seriously not know the difference between protesting a speech and preventing a speech?

Let me ask you this.... Do you think a group of students should be allowed to prevent a university approved invited speaker, from giving a lecture just because they don't agree with the speaker or what that speaker has to say?

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Kal'Stang · Apr 12, 2017

RabidAlpaca said:
The protestors didn't cancel the meeting, someone else decided to because of the protestors. You're free as an American to protest anyone you want, and we're not going to clamp down on Americans' rights because you feel you need a safe space.

Yeah, the police, because they couldn't guarantee her safety because of the mob outside. Even you admit that it was shut down because of the protestors there in bold. People have a right to protest and I support it 110%. They do not have a right to intimidate. It is also illegal for protestors to stop people from entering the building. Which they did.

RabidAlpaca said:
Yes, she said the Black Lives Matter movement was illegitimate because there is no racial disparity in the judicial system, and you then backed her up by saying all the "facts" and "statistics" she was presented showed that to be the case. Where's the evidence?

Not in the video above. And from the sounds of it she wasn't able to tell the statistics at the event. Perhaps its in her book? :shrug: 30 minutes into her speech she was told by police officers to cut it short..then they hustled her outside to an unmarked police van to get away from there.

RabidAlpaca said:
You've done nothing to show that "the left" had anything to do with planning this, nor are any "left leaders" responsible.

Do you have any evidence that it was the right that organized the protest? And I would say that whoever organized this protest is a leader. Wouldn't you?

That said, Grim's problem is that he's using a very broad brush. Regardless though, it IS leftists that perpetrated this protest.

RabidAlpaca said:
Why aren't we hearing many (or any) GOP leaders denouncing the KKK and other white supremacy groups? According to you and Grim it's incumbent on them to do so and their silence makes them complicit.

When was the last time the KKK or other white supremacy groups tried to shut down someone's speech? You do know that is what this thread is about right? No one is saying that these protestors do not have a right to speak. What people are saying is that they do not have a right to shut down other peoples speech through intimidation and fear tactics.

jimbo · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
That's a new dodge... LMAO

So instead of denouncing or stopping leftist mobs from using violence and threats of violence to stifle free speech that they disagree with, you think that instead, people on the right should form their own mob and start a riot.

Thank you for the honesty... We need more of that from the left so America can know exactly what you all stand for.

LMMFAO... Talk about a bunch of nonsense...

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If something isn't done by the authorities to stop some from preventing others to exercise their rights, then the result will be addressing the mob with a mob. A battle the left will lose.

Trippy Trekker · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
That's a new dodge... LMAO

So instead of denouncing or stopping leftist mobs from using violence and threats of violence to stifle free speech that they disagree with, you think that instead, people on the right should form their own mob and start a riot.

Thank you for the honesty... We need more of that from the left so America can know exactly what you all stand for.

LMMFAO... Talk about a bunch of nonsense...

.

Delusion much?
If you want to improve your mental clarity, add oxygen to that Fake News Filter Bubble you live in.

Harshaw · Apr 12, 2017

Trippy Trekker said:
Delusion much?
If you want to improve your mental clarity, add oxygen to that Fake News Filter Bubble you live in.

Yeah?

You said:

Trippy Trekker said:
What a cop out. You totally fail to see the irony of you doing nothing to protect a member of your political family, Heather, then you blame unnamed Leftist Leaders for not stopping her detractors.

Picture this scenario - Don't blame me for failing to provide care and welfare for my children. That responsibility lies elsewhere.

In this case, what exactly should "Heather's" "political family" have done to "protect her"?

Spell it out.

faithful_servant · Apr 12, 2017

RabidAlpaca said:
Why aren't we hearing many (or any) GOP leaders denouncing the KKK and other white supremacy groups? According to you and Grim it's incumbent on them to do so and their silence makes them complicit.

Because the KKK isn't rioting in the streets in support of conservative causes.

Also:
Republicans quick to denounce former KKK leader David Duke?s run for senate - National | Globalnews.ca
Trump campaign denounces KKK's official newspaper's support - CNNPolitics.com
North Carolina GOP condemns KKK parade honoring Trump - CNNPolitics.com
Donald Trump denounces David Duke, KKK - CNNPolitics.com
Trump camp, N.C. GOP condemn KKK's plan to hold victory parade for president-elect - Washington Times
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...w-the-ku-klu-klan_us_56d8f801e4b0ffe6f8e8d051

Now then, I provided you with a nice list of Reps. who have denounced the Klan, now it's your turn. Show us some national Dem. leaders who have denounced the violence that happened during the post election riots. Show us the national Dem. leaders who have denounced the efforts to silence conservative speakers.

Trippy Trekker · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 in post #7 posted a link to MacDonald's speech... meaning protesters did not prevent the speech. The protest according to at least one source increased exposure to the speech. The added publicity encourages further discussion on at least several topics, including racial issues, the role of police in society, the realm of Free Speech on college campuses and protesting etiquette.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...and-crime-prevents-event-taking-place-planned

Fiddytree · Apr 12, 2017

I think shutting down academic-sponsored events is unbecoming of university students. But I will say I find it odd that after so many years of Leftists calling Claremont some Straussian cult school, we know it's not.

Harshaw · Apr 12, 2017

Trippy Trekker said:
Grim17 in post #7 posted a link to MacDonald's speech... meaning protesters did not prevent the speech. The protest according to at least one source increased exposure to the speech. The added publicity encourages further discussion on at least several topics, including racial issues, the role of police in society, the realm of Free Speech on college campuses and protesting etiquette.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...and-crime-prevents-event-taking-place-planned

Oh, so trying to prevent her from speaking, threatening people, trying to keep them from entering, intimidation, et al., is actually good for speech?

You still haven't answered the question:

Trippy Trekker said:
What a cop out. You totally fail to see the irony of you doing nothing to protect a member of your political family, Heather, then you blame unnamed Leftist Leaders for not stopping her detractors.

Picture this scenario - Don't blame me for failing to provide care and welfare for my children. That responsibility lies elsewhere.

What, exactly, should her "political family" have done to "protect" her?

Trippy Trekker · Apr 12, 2017

Harshaw said:
Yeah?

You said:

In this case, what exactly should "Heather's" "political family" have done to "protect her"?

Spell it out.

You continue to display your impressive intransigence. Why would I share my recipe for success with someone stingy that I don't like? The last time we met on a thread, we absolutely did not part on friendly terms. My opinion of you has yet to change. The Lion does not want to lay down with the Lamb today.

Trippy Trekker to Harshaw - You enjoy an argument with no respect for logic and truth. That makes you an annoyance, not an asset. I really don't care much about understanding your purpose or point. You have already demonstrated your lack of credibility ad nauseam.

Harshaw · Apr 12, 2017

Trippy Trekker said:
You continue to display your impressive intransigence. Why would I share my recipe for success with someone stingy that I don't like? The last time we met on a thread, we absolutely did not part on friendly terms. My opinion of you has yet to change. The Lion does not want to lay down with the Lamb today.

So, again, caught in (several) something(s) you can't defend, you, again, resort to insults instead.

Trippy Trekker · Apr 12, 2017

Harshaw said:
So, again, caught in (several) something(s) you can't defend, you, again, resort to insults instead.

There you go again. You just can't handle the truth.

Harshaw · Apr 12, 2017

Trippy Trekker said:
There you go again. You just can't handle the truth.

What "truth"? You offered nothing but a line of insults.

You did not answer my questions about your posts.

So, I'll ask again:

Harshaw said:
Trippy Trekker said:

Grim17 in post #7 posted a link to MacDonald's speech... meaning protesters did not prevent the speech. The protest according to at least one source increased exposure to the speech. The added publicity encourages further discussion on at least several topics, including racial issues, the role of police in society, the realm of Free Speech on college campuses and protesting etiquette.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...and-crime-prevents-event-taking-place-planned

Click to expand...

Oh, so trying to prevent her from speaking, threatening people, trying to keep them from entering, intimidation, et al., is actually good for speech?

And:

Harshaw said:
Trippy Trekker said:

What a cop out. You totally fail to see the irony of you doing nothing to protect a member of your political family, Heather, then you blame unnamed Leftist Leaders for not stopping her detractors.

Picture this scenario - Don't blame me for failing to provide care and welfare for my children. That responsibility lies elsewhere.

Click to expand...

What, exactly, should her "political family" have done to "protect" her?

Can you answer these questions, or are you just going to post more insults instead?

Mr Person · Apr 12, 2017

Grim17 said:
This time the left and their Black Lives Matter supporters shut down a speech by "The War on Cops" author Heather MacDonald.

I really wish the people who complained the loudest about "free speech" bothered to learn when it is implicated and when it is not.

Grim17 said:
This revolt against free speech is really getting out of hand.

Say "derp" louder.

At Claremont McKenna, the left again shuts down free speech.

Grim17

Battle Ready

Fishking

Grim17

Battle Ready

RabidAlpaca

Engineer

Trippy Trekker

Erod

Grim17

Battle Ready

Grim17

Battle Ready

faithful_servant

RabidAlpaca

Engineer

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot

Grim17

Battle Ready

Kal'Stang

jimbo

Trippy Trekker

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot

faithful_servant

Trippy Trekker

Fiddytree

Neocon Elitist

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot

Trippy Trekker

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot

Trippy Trekker

Harshaw

Filmmaker ● Lawyer ● Patriot

Mr Person

A Little Bitter