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Controversial Trump Aide Sebastian Gorka Backed Violent Anti-Semitic Militia

JasperL said:
OK, and about 2/3 of the country doesn't own a gun, and far fewer than that are 'trained in their use in time of need.' It's not the 1700s anymore. We've given up on the idea of a citizen militia and instead spend what roughly the entire rest of the world does on our standing army, which most assuredly was NOT the founders' intent.




I can competently shoot rifles, pistols and shotguns, but that doesn't mean I'm in any militia because I've never had any training. And me hunting doves and ducks a few times a year also doesn't mean I'm prepared for armed conflict.



Correct - a line in legislation saying, "You are part of the militia" is just exactly as meaningful as if that line was "You are a pilot" or "you are a nurse." For any purpose that matters to anything, the assertion of this thing existing is meaningless, empty rhetoric, devoid of purpose.



The intent of the founders about militias versus standing armies is no longer relevant. At that time, citizen militias actually existed. Now they don't. At that time, there was a fear and opposition to standing armies - now we have the most powerful standing army in the history of the planet.

I'm just pointing out that no matter how badly I want to feel important, or that my guns have a purpose other than my own use and amusement, I'm not part of any militia. If I want to claim that, I have to actually DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL, MAKE A SACRIFICE, such as sacrifice my time to train as part of a militia when I want to and when I do not, and to commit to being called up, leaving my family, and my business, risking my life, with almost no notice and for as long as needed.
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Thats a lot of words which have zero meaning beyond opinion. The 2nd Amendment and US Code are law. It is what it is. The people have the right to keep and bear arms. And yes...even today...citizens comprise the militia. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap13-sec311.htm

The intent of the founding fathers has no relevance to YOU. It is still intensely relevant to most Americans. But...the beauty of the Constitution is that if you disagree with it, you have the right to jump in there and start a petition drive and work to amend the Constitution.
 
JasperL said:
OK, and about 2/3 of the country doesn't own a gun, and far fewer than that are 'trained in their use in time of need.' It's not the 1700s anymore. We've given up on the idea of a citizen militia and instead spend what roughly the entire rest of the world does on our standing army, which most assuredly was NOT the founders' intent.




I can competently shoot rifles, pistols and shotguns, but that doesn't mean I'm in any militia because I've never had any training. And me hunting doves and ducks a few times a year also doesn't mean I'm prepared for armed conflict.



Correct - a line in legislation saying, "You are part of the militia" is just exactly as meaningful as if that line was "You are a pilot" or "you are a nurse." For any purpose that matters to anything, the assertion of this thing existing is meaningless, empty rhetoric, devoid of purpose.



The intent of the founders about militias versus standing armies is no longer relevant. At that time, citizen militias actually existed. Now they don't. At that time, there was a fear and opposition to standing armies - now we have the most powerful standing army in the history of the planet.

I'm just pointing out that no matter how badly I want to feel important, or that my guns have a purpose other than my own use and amusement, I'm not part of any militia. If I want to claim that, I have to actually DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL, MAKE A SACRIFICE, such as sacrifice my time to train as part of a militia when I want to and when I do not, and to commit to being called up, leaving my family, and my business, risking my life, with almost no notice and for as long as needed.
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42 states have organized militias (no, not the National Guard), and 23 of them are active at the moment.

Not that it matters to the interpretation and force of the Second Amendment, at all.
 
VanceMack said:
Thats a lot of words which have zero meaning beyond opinion. The 2nd Amendment and US Code are law. It is what it is. The people have the right to keep and bear arms. And yes...even today...citizens comprise the militia. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap13-sec311.htm

The intent of the founding fathers has no relevance to YOU. It is still intensely relevant to most Americans. But...the beauty of the Constitution is that if you disagree with it, you have the right to jump in there and start a petition drive and work to amend the Constitution.
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If you want to claim to be a member of a militia, go put your name on the dotted line and make a sacrifice, a commitment, that's meaningful. Playing with guns on the weekends when the weather is nice doesn't get us there.
 
JasperL said:
If you want to claim to be a member of a militia, go put your name on the dotted line and make a sacrifice, a commitment, that's meaningful. Playing with guns on the weekends when the weather is nice doesn't get us there.
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Im not sure why you feel the need to make factual, personal.
 
Harshaw said:
42 states have organized militias (no, not the National Guard), and 23 of them are active at the moment.

Not that it matters to the interpretation and force of the Second Amendment, at all.
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And I'm all for that. My only point was I don't get to claim I'm part of a "militia" unless and until I take acts that commit me to regular training, etc. I have friends in the Guard - it's a helluva sacrifice at times. In Tennessee, the commitment is 1 day a month, three days a year for annual training. THEY get to claim to be part of a militia. I don't.
 
VanceMack said:
Im not sure why you feel the need to make factual, personal.
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The "you" wasn't intended to be personal but rhetorical. It's my view that claiming to be part of a militia requires affirmative acts, and sacrifices. I have friends who make that commitment and have for decades in a couple of cases and I haven't, and so do not believe I'm entitled to claim that I have just because some congressman put a line in some legislation 100 years ago deeming me so.

If I want to claim it in Tennessee, I can do so - instructions here, they want volunteers: Tennessee State Guard

And I have to give up one day a month, then three days a year. I'm not willing to do that, and so will never claim that I am a member of something I am not willing to take active steps to EARN.
 
JasperL said:
The "you" wasn't intended to be personal but rhetorical. It's my view that claiming to be part of a militia requires affirmative acts, and sacrifices. I have friends who make that commitment and have for decades in a couple of cases and I haven't, and so do not believe I'm entitled to claim that I have just because some congressman put a line in some legislation 100 years ago deeming me so.

If I want to claim it in Tennessee, I can do so - instructions here, they want volunteers: Tennessee State Guard

And I have to give up one day a month, then three days a year. I'm not willing to do that, and so will never claim that I am a member of something I am not willing to take active steps to EARN.
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Again...your 'opinion' stands in opposition to established law.
311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

It doesnt say "so long as they organize and declare themselves as an official entity". That some may do so is legal...but not required.
 
VanceMack said:
Again...your 'opinion' stands in opposition to established law.
311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

It doesnt say "so long as they organize and declare themselves as an official entity". That some may do so is legal...but not required.
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I know what the law says, I just won't be claiming I'm part of a militia because I have a gun and shoot sometimes on the weekend but don't otherwise sacrifice a second of my time or risk even missing one day of work, or one golf game, or one fishing trip, or one Sunday watching the NFL drinking beer, for this important task of being in a militia. But if anyone else wants to pretend, fine by me. Has no legal standing and is irrelevant to literally everything of significance.
 
JasperL said:
I know what the law says, I just won't be claiming I'm part of a militia because I have a gun and shoot sometimes on the weekend but don't otherwise sacrifice a second of my time or risk even missing one day of work, or one golf game, or one fishing trip, or one Sunday watching the NFL drinking beer, for this important task of being in a militia. But if anyone else wants to pretend, fine by me. Has no legal standing and is irrelevant to literally everything of significance.
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Okie dokie.

Now let me ask you this. SHOULD the worse case scenario occur and you were NEEDED to step up...would you?
 
VanceMack said:
Okie dokie.

Now let me ask you this. SHOULD the worse case scenario occur and you were NEEDED to step up...would you?
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Yes of course, but if we as a country expect people like me to be part of a "militia" that can be effective at really any role, it takes a serious and ongoing COMMITMENT and SACRIFICE, from millions of people like me and a government to pay for the costs of training, equipment, communications, infrastructure, supplies, etc. Me showing up with my .243 bolt action with maybe 50 loaded cartridges and a Remington Model 1100 and few boxes of #8 and #4 shot shells isn't going to be very effective in the worst case scenario.
 
JasperL said:
Yes of course, but if we as a country expect people like me to be part of a "militia" that can be effective at really any role, it takes a serious and ongoing COMMITMENT and SACRIFICE, from millions of people like me and a government to pay for the costs of training, equipment, communications, infrastructure, supplies, etc. Me showing up with my .243 bolt action with maybe 50 loaded cartridges and a Remington Model 1100 and few boxes of #8 and #4 shot shells isn't going to be very effective in the worst case scenario.
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But that affirms the very intent of the 2nd Amendment, the founding fathers, and the concept of a citizen militia. And I frankly appreciate the honest response. But I wouldnt sell yourself short. If we were at a last resort, you would be joined with millions of people similarly armed but willing to fight to defend our freedom. You would make Washington proud.
 
VanceMack said:
But that affirms the very intent of the 2nd Amendment, the founding fathers, and the concept of a citizen militia. And I frankly appreciate the honest response. But I wouldnt sell yourself short. If we were at a last resort, you would be joined with millions of people similarly armed but willing to fight to defend our freedom. You would make Washington proud.
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I mostly agree. As you've noticed, I'm generally a liberal on a lot of issues, but gun control hasn't ever been something I supported, for reasons practical and philosophical. I absolutely agree that so many Americans armed do or can serve as a significant force against any enemy considering an attack on the U.S.
 
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