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Trump kills Clean Power Plan, orders agencies to ignore climate change

azgreg said:
What Trump Misses About Energy Jobs In America : NPR
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What is important is that solar keeps getting cheaper, and there is so much innovation and cost reductions and efficiency gains to come. Same for wind and hydro.

Coal? Not so much. Coal is never going to get cheaper to mine, its not gonna get cleaner to burn, and it is not going to get any safer to the miners. It is your grandfather's fuel, it was great back then, but it is a nasty relic of the past. Trump is only beholden to the donors from the industry, there aren't going to be any job gains in coal in the long run.

Innovation kills the inefficient.
 
Higgins86 said:
He's a top hat and a long coat away from being a Victorian British prime minister. Gun boat diplomacy and coal, man is pushing coal likes its 1817
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I think he's closer to being a robber baron.
 
CriticalThought said:
I went through eight years of hyperbole about every action Obama took, now you can put on your big boy pants and deal with Trump getting the same treatment.
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Oh, so you don't want to be the voice of reason, you want to be the voice of the sky is falling.
 
Fenton said:
It absolutely is dishonest hyperbole. Bull **** scare tactics is all you people have now.

Do you know how much of our power currently is derived from coal fired plants ?
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Obviously you weren't around then or you would know better. What are you ten?
 
CriticalThought said:
While I won't pretend that Trump is going to bring about the downfall of clean water and clean air, I would say Trump is making a gamble. Having more employed coal miners is a nice thing but if climate change turns out to be more than a conspiracy from China, then history will not remember Trump fondly. That said, this is political showmanship and has little to do with "using our natural resources". Natural gas is just too cheap and marketable and solar is fixing to get there as well. Actions like these are little different than trying to bring back whale oil to fill our lamps.
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History will already not remember Trump fondly. He's that much of an idiot. He will easily go down as our worst president of modern times. Probably all time.
 
beefheart said:
What is important is that solar keeps getting cheaper, and there is so much innovation and cost reductions and efficiency gains to come. Same for wind and hydro.

Coal? Not so much. Coal is never going to get cheaper to mine, its not gonna get cleaner to burn, and it is not going to get any safer to the miners. It is your grandfather's fuel, it was great back then, but it is a nasty relic of the past. Trump is only beholden to the donors from the industry, there aren't going to be any job gains in coal in the long run.

Innovation kills the inefficient.
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Or, you know tax and regulate the efficient and subsidize the inefficient until the green energy lobby is happy and flush with cash.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
History will already not remember Trump fondly. He's that much of an idiot. He will easily go down as our worst president of modern times. Probably all time.
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60 days in. Sure, you going with off the rails and stupid or did you want to at least make a reasonable judgment?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Or, you know tax and regulate the efficient and subsidize the inefficient until the green energy lobby is happy and flush with cash.
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That post means nothing.

Do you know about the fact that solar gets cheaper and coal never gets cheaper?

Solar Power Will Soon Be Cheaper Than Coal

Solar and wind are becoming more efficient, coal isn't.

Innovation kills inefficient.

Oh, and you don't think your energy hasn't been subsidized? Where I live there are 2 power companies, each is granted a guaranteed profit by the state. Even when more and more customers go solar. How crazy is that?
 
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OpportunityCost said:
60 days in. Sure, you going with off the rails and stupid or did you want to at least make a reasonable judgment?
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President William Henry Harrison had a better first 100 days than Trump..and he died on day 31.
 
joG said:
Of course we elected him. You can't have a democracy and evade responsibility. You didn’t prevent him, you own him.
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No, "we" didn't elect him. The majority of the people elected someone else, and Trump had the aid of a foreign enemy country that has done this in two other countries, as well.
 
I think emission laws/regulations should be decided by the people in national referendums...not by politicians.

If most Americans want the current CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards? They should stay. If they don't? They should go.

And so on.

Americans are the ones who have to live with the results - rich politicians can go where ever it is clean when they retire, most people cannot.

And 'no' - an election is not as good as a referendum in my book.
 
beefheart said:
That post means nothing.

Do you know about the fact that solar gets cheaper and coal never gets cheaper?

Solar Power Will Soon Be Cheaper Than Coal

Solar and wind are becoming more efficient, coal isn't.

Innovation kills inefficient.
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Study: Despite Subsidies, Solar Power More Expensive

According to the Energy Information Agency (EIA), the levelized cost – defined as “the per-killowatthour cost (in real dollars) of building and operating a generating plant over an assumed financial life and duty cycle” – of electricity from a new solar photo-voltaic (SPV) plant in 2020 will be $74.20 per MWh, compared to $56.40 per MWh for power from a natural gas plant.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Now, some homework for you, what is the tax deduction for installing solar panels?
 
OpportunityCost said:
60 days in. Sure, you going with off the rails and stupid or did you want to at least make a reasonable judgment?
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Open your eyes and ears. The man has no precedent. He's that unpresidential. He's an absolutely blowhard buffoon. No mental discipline and no class. And he lies on a daily basis. We've never had that bad of a person sitting in the oval office.
 
JumpinJack said:
No, "we" didn't elect him. The majority of the people elected someone else, and Trump had the aid of a foreign enemy country that has done this in two other countries, as well.
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He is legitimately elected. Your argument is reality challenged, pathetic, and lame.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Open your eyes and ears. The man has no precedent. He's that unpresidential. He's an absolutely blowhard buffoon. No mental discipline and no class. And he lies on a daily basis. We've never had that bad of a person sitting in the oval office.
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Except...you know, the last one.
 
beefheart said:
President William Henry Harrison had a better first 100 days than Trump..and he died on day 31.
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One absurdity after another. Discuss the ****in topic for gods sake.
 
Expecting President Trump to give a damn about the future or the american people generally beyond what’s in his own immediate best interest is asking too much.

He's a narcissistic psychopath.
 
beefheart said:
Yeah because we need more low tech manual labor jobs that are dangerous as hell and pollute the environment and shorten the worker's lives.
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You mean like the jobs needed for solar?
 
The problem with Solar Power...its ALWAYS going to be viable..."a decade from now". Just you wait...another decade...and it will be awesome. It just needs more money invested into it.

Sure...provided the government drenches the installation and manufacturing with tax dollars AND the government instills taxes and penalties that drive coal costs out of the market...Solar will be competitive. In 10 years. Maybe. The just need more money.

"Ren21, a stakeholder network that assists in crafting global renewable energy policies, found that global investment in renewables was just US$285.9 billion in 2015. That's way less than the projected US$12.2 trillion required globally over the next 25 years, if the world is going to meet the Paris climate agreement's emission goals."

In May 2013, Ter Dines of Honeycomb Solar wrote this article saying essentially the same thing. 25-30 years from now...

"Let me be provocative for a moment. Do you know how much of a return on your investment you would receive if you installed solar on your home or business right now? Do you know enough to even estimate the amount of money you'd save over 25-30 years? Would you guess that solar energy is actually a financial investment with recent returns more solid than stocks and bonds? Do you know that solar energy works in colder climates and on cloudy days? Did you know that nearly any solar installation company will gladly provide you these numbers for free? Probably not. Not many Americans can begin to answer these questions. And who can blame them?"

The solar industry is young, lacking the means to get the word out in the way that giants of other industries are able to do.

Yet each installation site still drips with the exhilaration and sweat of The Cavern Club in 1961, right after a little-known band named The Beatles just finished playing to a room of about 100 people. Solar energy is the early rock and roll of our generation — we're the rock and roll stars of our time, hell-bent on changing the world. This time, though, it really works. We, as an industry, can see what is ahead. We'll be here waiting. And when you say "Oh man, I wish I knew about this sooner," we won't judge. We'll love and support you just the same. It was Marty McFly in Back to the Future who said: "I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet. But your kids are gonna love it." See you soon, America."

Great sentiment from the CEO of an innovative Solar Manufacturer from 2013.

Honeycomb Solar LLC...is out of business. Solyndra...is out of business. They arent alone...
https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...t-List-of-Fallen-Solar-Companies-2015-Edition
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Nothing worthwhile is simple or easy. This country would never have gone to the moon if it had been easy.
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The moon program was rather cheap compared to achieving carbon neutrality and was practically risk free. If you look at the German experience you will see a number of areas, where the pitfalls are rather disturbing. The most visible flashing light is that the government has chosen populist measures instead of economically optimizing strategies.
 
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