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With a 10-day supply of opioids, 1 in 5 become long-term users

SouthernDemocrat said:
Did they prescribe physical therapy? The back is exceptionally well supplied with blood. Often with PT, a back injury will heal rapidly. Much faster than a knee or shoulder injury.

The best way to avoid back pain are lots of pull-ups, rows, core strengthening, and dead lifts (with perfect form of course). Strengthen the musculature of the back, and the pain goes away. My back was broken in an accident last August, so I am speaking from experience.
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I went thru a core strengthening PT program for over SIX months; the average time frame for the program is 2. 5 to 3 months.

The FACT REMAINS; I had & will ALWAYS have the herniated L4/L5 disc that presses on the nerve root, which cause the symptoms & the associated pain.

The medical community is great at going after symptoms BUT they often refuse to attack the actual 'root cause' of an ailment.

It is no wonder 'medicine' in our society is so screwed up
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/
This is why we have such an opioid addiction epidemic in this country. They are dangerous, its much better to man up and deal with the pain than it is to risk getting hooked.
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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a1.htm#F1_up

It's not clear that these numbers have a direct connection to addiction numbers.

The source for the article you cite does NOT equate long-term use with addiction.

It is possible that the patients who received more days of medicine had problems that justified more medicine.

Problems that were initially more likely to need longer therapy, were more likely to need more medicine isn't exactly that earth-shattering of a conclusion.

From that cite:

"The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations.

First, although the cumulative dose of the first episode of opioid use is described, the likelihood of long-term use when the prescriber was titrating the dose was not determined. Rather, the total cumulative dose was calculated, which might have been increasing or decreasing over time.

Second, the extent to which chronic opioid use was intentional versus the outgrowth of acute use is not known. Less than 1% of patients in this analysis were prescribed Schedule II long-acting opioids at the outset, so intentional chronic opioid prescribing might be uncommon; however, approximately 10% of patients were prescribed tramadol, which might indicate intentional chronic opioid prescribing.

Third, information on pain intensity or duration were not available, and the etiology of pain, which might influence the duration of opioid use, was not considered in the analysis.

Fourth, the frequency of prescriptions having certain days’ supplied (e.g., prescriptions with a 7-day supply would be more frequently observed than those with an 11- or 13-day supply) was not considered. The variability in the relationships between days’ supply, the cumulative dose, and duration of first episode and the probability of long-term use could be affected.

Finally, prescriptions that were either paid for out-of-pocket or obtained illicitly were not included in the analysis."​
 
calamity said:
I was amazed at how readily doctors prescribe opiates. No wonder so many people get hooked.
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A lot of things are not as I expect them to be—especially things which are outside of my bailiwick.

Of all the things in the world, the ones outside of my knowledge base are the things the most frequently different than I imagined them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Narcotics are not for long term pain. They are for acute pain only.
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If that were true, this document could be a whole lot shorter—replaced simply by the word "Don't"

CDC Guideline for Prescribing Opioids for Chronic Pain — United States, 2016

So, it's likely we should abandon that statement as a premise to make conclusions from.

SouthernDemocrat said:
Had I managed my pain with narcotics while I recovered, it would have been a lifetime sentence for pain...
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Few people who take opioids and opiates end up addicted.

You may have been among those few.
But odds are you'd've been able to avoid addiction.



SouthernDemocrat said:
We have 5% of the world's population and take 80% of its narcotics.
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We're likely to consume a disproportionate amount of all medical care when compared to the global population.

We have disproportionate access to medical care compared to the rest of the human population.

487d5bd93fa93d0a5831aa98ac3f47e09e20ccbc789a12691971f54ffd474ce2.jpg​
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Narcotics are ineffective for chronic pain. They are only for severe acute pain:

Study: Ibuprofen and narcotics don't help chronic pain - Times Union

MMS: Error

If a person is taking narcotics for chronic pain, they don't realize it, but they are addicted. They pain they have when they try to stop taking it is withdrawal symptoms.
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Nothing I said disagrees with what you said. My point is that if we were ONLY concerned about opioid addiction as it relates to chronic pain sufferers, we would not be facing the current epidemic of opioid abuse.

I also agree that opioids should not routinely be used for chronic pain sufferers except in the most extreme cases. And I wont attempt to define those cases...thats something for an individual and their doctor to discuss. But most people that experience chronic pain will be better served having a countering 'quality of life' that balances the pain (AND with some form of medical relief).
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We have 5% of the world's population and take 80% of its narcotics.
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The same can be said for our mental health diagnosis and treatment. A large percentage of the worlds population has to worry about getting food, water, and hopefully not get eaten by lions, raped or murdered by a roving band of rebels or terrorists, etc. We have the luxury of experiencing extreme anxiety when snow makes our satellite dish reception fuzzy.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/

This is why we have such an opioid addiction epidemic in this country. They are dangerous, its much better to man up and deal with the pain than it is to risk getting hooked.
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Or woman up.

Mrs. had pretty major surgery in August (removed 10" of colon)... refused the opioid prescription they gave her when discharged. First night home was awful, but got through it. She also refused painkillers when our 3 kids were born many moons ago.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Did they prescribe physical therapy? The back is exceptionally well supplied with blood. Often with PT, a back injury will heal rapidly. Much faster than a knee or shoulder injury.

The best way to avoid back pain are lots of pull-ups, rows, core strengthening, and dead lifts (with perfect form of course). Strengthen the musculature of the back, and the pain goes away. My back was broken in an accident last August, so I am speaking from experience.
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Ive suffered from crippling migraines since I was in my late teens.

I take Triptans to head them off but they only work if I take them right at the time I start seeing flashes and start to notice a deep dull pain behind my right eye.
If I dont have them with me or wait to long to take them the only thing that takes the edge off is large doses of diluadid, typically given at the ER.

I wouldnt wish migraines on my worst enemy. Think hours of someone slowly twisting a dagger into your eye, along with horrible nausea. You cant heal your way out of some pain, migraines included

For a while even the triptans werent working, and I was given a maintenance pain meds.
My Neurologist and I worked on identifying my triggers, which took a few months and since then I havent had to rely on pain meds, but for those few months, I wouldnt have been able to function without them
 
Simon W. Moon said:
A lot of things are not as I expect them to be—especially things which are outside of my bailiwick.

Of all the things in the world, the ones outside of my knowledge base are the things the most frequently different than I imagined them.
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Yeah, but this one will bite you in the ass if dear Doc prescribes you with a month's supply of Vicadin and you take them all, only to find out you are hooked once the scrip runs out.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
If that were true, this document could be a whole lot shorter—replaced simply by the word "Don't"

CDC Guideline for Prescribing Opioids for Chronic Pain — United States, 2016

So, it's likely we should abandon that statement as a premise to make conclusions from.


Few people who take opioids and opiates end up addicted.

You may have been among those few.
But odds are you'd've been able to avoid addiction.





We're likely to consume a disproportionate amount of all medical care when compared to the global population.

We have disproportionate access to medical care compared to the rest of the human population.

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There were 300 million narcotic prescriptions written in the United States in 2015 alone. Its not just a few people that take opiates that are getting addicted.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/

This is why we have such an opioid addiction epidemic in this country. They are dangerous, its much better to man up and deal with the pain than it is to risk getting hooked.
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Wow- thanks for this.

The lead author is an old friend- I didn't realize he just published this!

That being said, long term use does not equate to addiction. But these numbers are pretty concerning- we may have gotten a bit too loose with opiate use over the last few decades.
 
What I want to know is what percentage of the people who end up addicted to either Big Pharma opioids or its substitute heroin started out on the trail with a prescription for pain. I am not willing to assume that this is the majority of the cases, because a lot of times drug addicts became that way by taking drugs for fun. I spent about 15 minutes trying to find out but came up with nothing.
 
cuban smokes said:
a bit over 10 years ago I experienced a herniated L4/L5 disc in my low back.
The associated symptoms & pain were a complete b****.
At times I experienced MAXIMUM pain levels.
I had excellent health insurance but that was NOT The problem.
I nearly begged the medical folks to operate & I also repeatedly asked for prescription drugs that would help with the excessive pain levels.
The PROBLEM was no one wanted to operate to eliminate the REAL issue, that being the herniated disc.
The other PROBLEM was no one wanted to offer me prescriptions that were strong enough to combat the excessive pain levels I experienced.

IMO the medical community FAILED ME; F*** THEM ................... these people are f***ing useless ............
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I had the exact same injury, luckily mine was work related so I was able to eventually get the surgery. I went almost a year going through PT and other treatments to avoid the surgery (my aunt had a similar procedure but came out worse) until finally the nerve damage was too excruciating to even get out of bed. At some points just standing up caused so much pain my body would go limp and I would collapse on the ground. Having the surgery was the best decision I have made though, while I still have some issues on occasion, I am now back to being able to work out and feel so much better.

If people want to experience pain and work through it that is on them. I have been prescribed opioids many times over the years, many times for an extended period without any issue. For those that are unable to take them due to fear of dependence that is perfectly fine, but don't try to prevent me from taking something that helps me alleviate pain when I feel the need for them.
 
I have some wonderful chronic pain issues (my femoral heads are egg shaped instead of round, so my hips were both trashed before my 20th birthday) and the only narcotics I ever took were the 2 weeks after my first hip replacement. But every time I go in for a checkup the doctor says "are you SURE you don't want some oxycontin?". It's tempting because the pain is all day, every day, but I'm not sure the tradeoff would be worth it, since I go straight brain dead with narcotics. So either be in pain or brain dead. Hurray.
 
ludin said:
I know a guy that lost his whole family and ended up dead because of oxy.
prescribed by a doctor.
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It's taking a terrible toll in this country. I linked in another post to how we have just 5% of the world's population, but 80% of its narcotic prescriptions.
 
Threegoofs said:
Wow- thanks for this.

The lead author is an old friend- I didn't realize he just published this!

That being said, long term use does not equate to addiction. But these numbers are pretty concerning- we may have gotten a bit too loose with opiate use over the last few decades.
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Have you ever known anyone that used narcotics regularly for a long time that was not dependent? I can't say I have. I know known a fair number of long term narcotic pain med users that did not think they were addicted, but let them go without that prescription and they go through the typical withdrawal symptoms. They don't typically realize that is what it is though, and think it's just their pain returning.

We are the only developed nation on earth that prescribes narcotics for anything other than very short term pain relief after surgeries or severe trauma.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Have you ever known anyone that used narcotics regularly for a long time that was not dependent? I can't say I have. I know known a fair number of long term narcotic pain med users that did not think they were addicted, but let them go without that prescription and they go through the typical withdrawal symptoms. They don't typically realize that is what it is though, and think it's just their pain returning.

We are the only developed nation on earth that prescribes narcotics for anything other than very short term pain relief after surgeries or severe trauma.
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It is purely anecdotal, but myself. If you consider roughly 6-8 months long term. I have been taking them off and on for around 10 years, last time I was on Oxy was I think two years ago for about a two week stretch and ended up throwing away half a bottle after they had expired.
 
Nap said:
It is purely anecdotal, but myself. If you consider roughly 6-8 months long term. I have been taking them off and on for around 10 years, last time I was on Oxy was I think two years ago for about a two week stretch and ended up throwing away half a bottle after they had expired.
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I was listening to a NPR story about this the other day. They were talking to a physician that specialized in opiate dependence. She said that basically a third of the population could take them for a long time off and on without risk of dependence, but that most people will get dependent with long term use and that a high percentage of people will get dependent very early on. You are probably one of the fortunate ones that can take them long term without issue.
 
ludin said:
I know a guy that lost his whole family and ended up dead because of oxy.
prescribed by a doctor.
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He didn't lose his family and eventually his life due to Oxy. He lost it all because of his own actions. In just about every issue in America people jump to blame everything but the person that acted irresponsibly, it amazes me sometimes to see just how much people hate freedom in America.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/

This is why we have such an opioid addiction epidemic in this country. They are dangerous, its much better to man up and deal with the pain than it is to risk getting hooked.
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Nonsense. Having had multiple orthopedic surgeries (with opioid pain medication prescribed during recovery and no addiction/dependence problems) it is definitely not better for (at least?) 80% of us.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I was listening to a NPR story about this the other day. They were talking to a physician that specialized in opiate dependence. She said that basically a third of the population could take them for a long time off and on without risk of dependence, but that most people will get dependent with long term use and that a high percentage of people will get dependent very early on. You are probably one of the fortunate ones that can take them long term without issue.
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The science behind addiction is rather fascinating. I have read about studies that show that in many cases that dependence to drugs and such can be hereditary. Which truly does make me very fortunate, my entire family has a history of drug (mostly alcohol, some prescription drugs) abuse.

I think because I was raised in an atmosphere with prescription drugs / alcohol and saw its effects on my family is the reason why I am so able to control those urges. I have had issues with Nicotine and gambling addiction if I am being completely honest, once I had realized I had a gambling problem I pretty much quit though and now I only go to casinos purely for social events (bachelor parties, weekend getaways with the guys type stuff)
 
Nap said:
He didn't lose his family and eventually his life due to Oxy. He lost it all because of his own actions. In just about every issue in America people jump to blame everything but the person that acted irresponsibly, it amazes me sometimes to see just how much people hate freedom in America.
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You know what I hate victim blaming.
he was addicted his wife asked to doctor to stop prescribing them because he was addicted.

the doctor didn't listen. even though he was a previous addict.

Yes he lost everything job, family etc ...

it has noting to do with freedom. it has to do with slavery of opoids some of the most addicting drugs out there.
you want to know why heroin abuse is on the rise?

because the stuff is more addictive than before.
He didn't think he had a problem. like most addicts.

drugs are a plague on society and carry 0 beneficial value. heroin, crack cocaine the list goes on. might as well add oxy to that list.

when they started busting pill mills in FL opioid abuse went down by a ton. amazing.
 
ludin said:
You know what I hate victim blaming.
he was addicted his wife asked to doctor to stop prescribing them because he was addicted.

the doctor didn't listen. even though he was a previous addict.

Yes he lost everything job, family etc ...

it has noting to do with freedom. it has to do with slavery of opoids some of the most addicting drugs out there.
you want to know why heroin abuse is on the rise?

because the stuff is more addictive than before.
He didn't think he had a problem. like most addicts.

drugs are a plague on society and carry 0 beneficial value. heroin, crack cocaine the list goes on. might as well add oxy to that list.

when they started busting pill mills in FL opioid abuse went down by a ton. amazing.
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So in your own story the actions of the Doctor and the Patient seem to have been the issue. I'm curious if there is any legal action the wife can make against the Doctor since she alerted him to the issue and he continued to prescribe them. I could be wrong but I thought there was some laws against situations like you described.

As for the benefits of Oxy, for my self the improvement on quality of life while under extreme circumstances of pain is quite the benefit.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ply-of-opioids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/

This is why we have such an opioid addiction epidemic in this country. They are dangerous, its much better to man up and deal with the pain than it is to risk getting hooked.
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That is what I mostly do. I have a high tolerance for pain. I have been prescribed opioid pain killers post operative pain and after a couple days, thrown out the remainder of the pills. I had a generous amount of morphine for a few hours after a motor vehicle accident with chest trauma injuries and then very little. However I cannot speak for those dealing with chronic pain that does not go away without constant pain medication. And yes, some of them may become addicted. However most of the people who become chronically addicted are the idiots who take pain medication for recreational use.
 
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