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US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity

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soylentgreen

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US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz

Police want to speak with US diplomat Colin White over an incident in Lower Hutt, but his government won't waive his immunity.

A legal academic suspects the United States' refusal to waive diplomatic immunity for one of its Wellington-based staffers was a decision made in Washington.

The US has been asked to pull one of its embassy officials out of New Zealand in a diplomatic stoush involving an incident in suburban Lower Hutt.

Police were called to an address in the suburb of Tirohanga on Sunday night, which Alabama-born embassy attache Colin White had already left.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) has confirmed it asked the US Government on Friday to waive diplomatic immunity so that police could investigate. However, the US declined.
Waikato University Professor of Law, Alexander Gillespie, said it was possible the US was enforcing a blanket rule not waive immunity for any of its staffers - a call likely to have been made by the White House.

"This may be a policy they have across the board, that no matter - anywhere - even with friendly countries, if one of their people are involved in an incident, they won't waive immunity.
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It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
 
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I served as a US diplomat for the better part of 20 years in 8 countries. I hate to defend Trump but this is an across the board policy that has been in place for decades. And it is the policy of most countries.

The article is correct in stating the decision would have been made in Washington. There are only two people who can waive a US diplomat's immunity. The POTUS and the SECSTATE. Not even the Ambassador can waive it. Hell, a diplomat can't even waive their own immunity.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I served as a US diplomat for the better part of 20 years in 8 countries. I hate to defend Trump but this is an across the board policy that has been in place for decades. And it is the policy of most countries.

The article is correct in stating the decision would have been made in Washington. There are only two people who can waive a US diplomat's immunity. The POTUS and the SECSTATE. Not even the Ambassador can waive it. Hell, a diplomat can't even waive their own immunity.
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Remember how Trump refused to fire lewandowski.....With Trump if he decides that you were fighting for the team and was right he will likely back you a very long way. That stuff he says about cops for instance he believes with every fiber of his being.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...
It's New Zealand so I expect this kind of spin. A crime may have happened and diplomacy is getting in the way. It's like Lethal Weapon 2.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
I served as a US diplomat for the better part of 20 years in 8 countries. I hate to defend Trump but this is an across the board policy that has been in place for decades. And it is the policy of most countries.

The article is correct in stating the decision would have been made in Washington. There are only two people who can waive a US diplomat's immunity. The POTUS and the SECSTATE. Not even the Ambassador can waive it. Hell, a diplomat can't even waive their own immunity.
Click to expand...

It is always so embarrassing to have to support Trump.
;)
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

Have you ever thought about why the Vienna Convention is so widely accepted? This is not a topic to screech about Trump's being bad.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

So in other words, Trump is doing his job and you don't like it?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
this is an across the board policy that has been in place for decades. And it is the policy of most countries.
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Some countries act with honour.
Malaysian military attache Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail was extradicted back to New Zealand to face trial for the indecent assault of a Wellington woman in 2014.
 
joG said:
Have you ever thought about why the Vienna Convention is so widely accepted? This is not a topic to screech about Trump's being bad.
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Agreed i do wonder why diplomats are given immunity when they do commit a crime.
 
soylentgreen said:
Some countries act with honour.
Malaysian military attache Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail was extradicted back to New Zealand to face trial for the indecent assault of a Wellington woman in 2014.
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What does honour have to do with anything?

Diplomatic immunity is working as designed in this case.

Do you have all the facts involving this incident? Was the man defending himself, or was he the aggressor? The US has a right to a internal investigation on the matter before it discloses anything to anyone.
 
soylentgreen said:
Since when is it job to protect people who are wanted for questioning by the police?
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Diplomatic immunity protects the person involved from overzealous foreign governments and police forces who could possibly violate the diplomats rights.

Try reading up on it.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Diplomatic immunity protects the person involved from overzealous foreign governments and police forces who could possibly violate the diplomats rights.

Try reading up on it.
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Given the demonstrated hostitity of New Zealand toward Trump how can we trust them to treat the US citizen fairly?

Of course I only have one New Zealander to base my opinion on

But that person is rabidly anti trump

If that is typical of the people in New Zealand then why take a chance that the American wont be treated fairly?
 
soylentgreen said:
Agreed i do wonder why diplomats are given immunity when they do commit a crime.
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Because in some countries disrestect of the government or the official state religion is a crime. This case (for whatever) is under investigation and yet you appear to assume (pre-suppose?) that a crime was committed.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz

It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

From your own article citation:

"They're not doing anything wrong. Many people think that, if we're friends, we shouldn't have these rules, but that's not the law. It's up to the Americans to waive it. It's not for us to insist that he be brought to the police station.
Click to expand...

The article also states that the New Zealand government has asked the U.S. to withdraw the official from their nation, which is their right.

This is standard practice all around the world. Try reading up on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Remember how Trump refused to fire lewandowski.....With Trump if he decides that you were fighting for the team and was right he will likely back you a very long way. That stuff he says about cops for instance he believes with every fiber of his being.
Click to expand...

Nice to see and very much NOT typical politics. It's called leadership.
 
soylentgreen said:
Agreed i do wonder why diplomats are given immunity when they do commit a crime.
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I understand why it makes people angry sometimes. And sometimes it does result in unfair situation. And if every country had a fair criminal justice system diplomatic immunity wouldn't be needed. But that isn't the case.

If not for diplomatic immunity diplomats would be at risk of being railroaded in countries with unjust court systems. They could be arrested and then used as bargaining chips. The lives of our gay, lesbian and atheist diplomats would be in danger in places.

If not for diplomatic immunity I would have ended up arrested and questioned on a couple occasions for doing nothing. Those places were Libya and Zimbabwe. Despite my immunity I still had AKs pointed at my face with the following such things yelled at me:

Why are you in this country? Are you CIA? How much money do you have? Give us your money or we will impound your car!

In Cambodia police tried to shake me down on multiple occasions, though they didn't point guns at me. In every one of those occasions I just kept saying "I am a diplomat. Please contact the US Embassy and your foreign ministry".

And that is just low level intimidation. You think Qaddafi or Mugabe would be above framing a senior American diplomat for a crime they didn't commit in order to exchange leniency for other considerations? You think China or Russia wouldn't do such things? And if you are a diplomat from China or Russia, do you trust the CIA to not do such things?

And diplomatic immunity doesn't mean you are immune from the law. It just means you aren't subject to host country laws. You are still subject to home country laws. If I murdered someone while in Cambodia I would not have been turned over to the Cambodians. But I would have still been subject to murder charges by the United States. The US government can't touch American tourists who travel to countries where prostitution and drug use are legal and decide to partake of those services. US diplomats in those same countries would be subject to US prosecution for doing the same thing.

Diplomatic immunity can create situations that seem really unfair. And sometimes it is unfair. But without Diplomatic Immunity, diplomacy and international relations would be greatly hindered. And there would be numerous countries where even having embassies and consulates would be too great a risk.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

You're kidding right? Obama has done this for eight years.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

That is standard policy for every country. I'll bet New Zealand would do the same thing for a diplomat stationed in Washington. The U.S. state department should bring him home and bury him in the Washington bureaucracy. He should never be allowed to have a foreign post.
 
RetiredUSN said:
What does honour have to do with anything?

.
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Why am i not surprised that a person from a country that has trump for a president would ask that question.

Diplomatic immunity is working as designed in this case.

Do you have all the facts involving this incident? Was the man defending himself, or was he the aggressor? The US has a right to a internal investigation on the matter before it discloses anything to anyone
Click to expand...

Do you have any facts that indicate such a review is happening. All i am seeing so far is a blanket refusal and no statement of america undertaking an investigation.
 
soylentgreen said:
US Government refuses to waive employee's diplomatic immunity | Stuff.co.nz



It would appear that the white house has could not care less that their staff in over seas positions are wanted for questioning over alleged misconducts in other countries. Wonderful precedent. America can do what it wants where it wants whenever it wants even if it suspected of something illegal. And trump will back them.
Click to expand...

Umm it has always been like this. I don't think you know what you are talking about.
the same goes for here against diplomats that get into questionable scenario's.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Because in some countries disrestect of the government or the official state religion is a crime. This case (for whatever) is under investigation and yet you appear to assume (pre-suppose?) that a crime was committed.
Click to expand...

How xenophobic are you. Can you even find the rest of the world on a map let alone make such a foolish generalisation. Do point out where but in new zealand any investigation is happening. All i see is a crooked president who could not care less that one of his over seas diplomats is under investigation.
 
Captain Adverse said:
From your own article citation:



The article also states that the New Zealand government has asked the U.S. to withdraw the official from their nation, which is their right.

This is standard practice all around the world. Try reading up on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
Click to expand...

It is also practice to allow the person to be questioned to ascertain what involvement if any. If he is innocent then no problem. If guilty then he should be sent back to nz to face trial.
 
soylentgreen said:
How xenophobic are you. Can you even find the rest of the world on a map let alone make such a foolish generalisation. Do point out where but in new zealand any investigation is happening. All i see is a crooked president who could not care less that one of his over seas diplomats is under investigation.
Click to expand...
:doh....more labels
 
Master PO said:
:doh....more labels
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That is all they can do. His complaint is moot.
Diplomatic immunity has been in place for years now.

it goes for us and them. Is it fair? no, but it protect diplomats from laws that
they might not be aware of.
 
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