Trump's Yemen Raid Success or Failure?

tres borrachos said:

Trump has been raging about McCain for over a year now. Obviously he cares very much what McCain says/thinks.

To answer the OP, I don't have any military expertise so I don't know if it was a success or failure. I do know an 8 year old girl died. But Trump said you have to take out of their families, so to him it's just delivering on one of his campaign promises.

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How does this statement not disqualify Trump from ever speaking about the honor in serving. Or, even being pretend pro-life. If you're gonna honor life, you have to honor children's lives. You can't play favorites with human life. It's just not right. Her family was mixed up. What's she going to do? Is social services going to come get her from Al-Qaeda? Is she going to go into a refugee foster program? Jesus the hypocrisy knows no end.

Fenton said:

Lol ! Of-course it was a failure to the " resistance ". They have no problem exploiting a Soldiers death for Political gain, hell remember when Ried called Bush's surge a failure before it even started ???

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Bengaziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.....

Winston said:

How does this statement not disqualify Trump from ever speaking about the honor in serving. Or, even being pretend pro-life. If you're gonna honor life, you have to honor children's lives. You can't play favorites with human life. It's just not right. Her family was mixed up. What's she going to do? Is social services going to come get her from Al-Qaeda? Is she going to go into a refugee foster program? Jesus the hypocrisy knows no end.

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I was deeply disturbed today by the reminder of when Trump uttered those foul words on Fox and Friends. I shake my head with disbelief that so many so called "pro-lifers" forgave him that comment.

tres borrachos said:

I was deeply disturbed today by the reminder of when Trump uttered those foul words on Fox and Friends. I shake my head with disbelief that so many so called "pro-lifers" forgave him that comment.

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He's a xenophobe of monstrous proportions.

11Bravo said:

obama the kenyan never visited anyones widows except to tell them the soldier died cause of a "youtube video".

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That post is wrong in so many ways it's difficult to know where to begin -- so, instead of that, how about you attempt to provide evidence that what it says is truthful... since it's your words.

While it wasn't a complete failure, I am finding it difficult to rationalize calling a mission that resulted in the death of a SEAL, the death of an infant, and the loss of a $75M aircraft a "success". I don't possess the requisite skill set to perform that level of mental gymnastics.

Winston said:

Where's the Benghazi level outrage here? Never forget.

If you can cut through the partisan bs for a minute..

Here's what happened in plain English.

Trump ordered a raid that was executed without the sufficient intel, ground support, or backup. As a result the Seal team dropped into an al-Qaeda compound defended by landmines, snipers, and a large host of angry Jihadi's. Had we taken sufficient preparations we may not have lost a Navy Seal not to mention murdered so many women and children.

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Yea, I dont remember Trump blaming this Soldiers death on a " protest over a You Tube video ", do you ?? The truth is this Yemen raid is not remotely similar to the Benghzi attack. For one Trump didn't send a spokesmen out to 5 Sunday shows to lie to millions of Americans

Fenton said:

Yea, I dont remember Trump blaming this Soldiers death on a " protest over a You Tube video ", do you ?? The truth is this Yemen raid is not remotely similar to the Benghzi attack. For one Trump didn't send a spokesmen out to 5 Sunday shows to lie to millions of Americans

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The reaction we heard from the Right was 10x more ridiculous than the Yemen raid fallout.. How many investigations did they conduct into HRC before they realized they were grasping at straws, wasting money, and embarrassing the victim's families? I'm just saying both sides will play politics with these tragedies when it suits them.

Winston said:

If John McCain is such a nobody, then why does Trump care what he thinks? Trump's the one fuming on Twitter about John McCain supposedly "emboldening" ISIS.

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Can you find where in my post I said John McCain is a nobody? Yeah, that's right, another strawman that doesn't exist! I said John McCain is constantly and consistently wrong about pretty much everything ever in regards to the military. This is not the first time you've built a point based on things never said by anyone. This is the last time I'll be responding to you.

Winston said:

The reaction we heard from the Right was 10x more ridiculous than the Yemen raid fallout.. How many investigations did they conduct into HRC before they realized they were grasping at straws, wasting money, and embarrassing the victim's families? I'm just saying both sides will play politics with these tragedies when it suits them.

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Lol... Yes, Hillary Clinton, Obama as the sitting President, the Democratic party and their supporters thought the American people deserved lies instead of a accurate account of what happened in Libya, and the Americans who died in the attack deserved to have their deaths Politicized and all because a honest description of the attack was Politically inconvenient at the time

It showed millions of Americans the depths of depravity their President and the Secretary of State were willing to go to save their asses Politically, and how little they cared about the families of those who lost their lives. The reaction was " 10 x worse " because the actions of the President and HRC and the Democratic party were 10x worse....actually much more than 10x

Raids by special forces have always been daring and risky. Was the commando raid on St. Nazaire a failure? Considering the strategic importance of the target, should it have not been attempted unless complete success had been certain? I doubt anyone knows just what intelligence U.S. forces collected at this site, or what it may lead to. We should not expect every operation against jihadists to be a perfect success, and we should never let the fact things sometimes do not go just right discourage us from continuing to attack them until they are finished. That may take many years, but we have no choice. There is no living in the world with depraved fanatics who believe it is their sacred duty to kill everyone else and who regularly murder innocent people by the dozens or even hundreds.

A few weeks earlier, even more jihadists were killed when B-2's and armed drones attacked a nest of them near Sirte, Libya, and the U.S. suffered no loss whatever of men or equipment. There were good reasons not to attack this site in the same way. I suspect one reason was that computer files and other valuable informat9on were known to be there. I suspect another was that innocent civilians were known to be there. Some of them, unfortunately, were killed anyway, but they all certainly would have been killed if the thing had been done the safest way, using a couple dozen tons of bombs dropped from 40,000 feet.

I think the maudlin emphasis on civilians killed in U.S. actions against jihadists is often part of an effort to spread anti-American propaganda.

Any missions that kill as many children as that are a failure. The Defense and Intelligence Agencies will be bragging about obtaining "actionable intelligence" that is of great value. It must have been a significant failure of "on the ground" intelligence that resulted in the massacre. I feel bad for the Seal and the wounded and pray they all get better leaders. We attacked the enemies of Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia is the big supporter of ISIS, so I conclude we did not attack ISIS. Al Qeda has usually been supported by Saudi Arabia, so who did we attack, and if we are supporting Saudi Arabia, are we supporting ISIS. The waters are surely muddied.
/

All I know is that if a Democrat would have authorized that raid, the Republicans would have years of investigations on it.

I don't mean to interrupt the conservative spinning but the mission "was to capture or kill Qassim al-Rimi." It was a failure. The death of a Seal and children only makes it a tragic failure. Now I don't know if there is something Trump did that added to the failure but there are some reports he did. I know how conservatives still suffer from Romneysia but "reports from unnamed sources" were all we needed to have 8 (or is it 9) Benghazi investigations. That's the point some are making and cons are desperately trying to avoid.

matchlight said:

Raids by special forces have always been daring and risky. Was the commando raid on St. Nazaire a failure? Considering the strategic importance of the target, should it have not been attempted unless complete success had been certain? I doubt anyone knows just what intelligence U.S. forces collected at this site, or what it may lead to. We should not expect every operation against jihadists to be a perfect success, and we should never let the fact things sometimes do not go just right discourage us from continuing to attack them until they are finished. That may take many years, but we have no choice. There is no living in the world with depraved fanatics who believe it is their sacred duty to kill everyone else and who regularly murder innocent people by the dozens or even hundreds.

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What the argument boils down to is this: How valuable is the intel we recovered? No one can say, initially. So, if no one knows yet. How do Trump and Spicer? They handle things like belligerent drunkards justifying drunken behavior. I find it egregious that Sean Spicer is going out in front of the American public and basically, demanding our consent by forcing a narrative on us, when we have some justifiable objections to the way Yemen was handled.

I think the maudlin emphasis on civilians killed in U.S. actions against jihadists is often part of an effort to spread anti-American propaganda.

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This is where our foreign policy blunders of the past 16 years are common sense to me. We go in, we kill their women, kill their children, and radicalize otherwise peaceful people. In trying to combat terrorism, we bring violence and destruction on civilians. And our excuse is pathetic. It's basically, "Yeah, sucks to be a Syrian. We take a few thousand refugees a year, maybe try that.. annnd nevermind, we don't"

I reserve hopes that Trump may do some sort of Middle East Peace Deal.. If he teams up with Russia to take down ISIS, then the Syrian government stands. There's some missing link here that I'm not aware of. US funds terror groups that are allied with ISIS because said groups want to overthrow Assad. Russia supports Assad and bombs ISIS and other terror groups. But, Trump's position is the reversal of the neoliberal position, where he would basically support Syria and Russia and take down ISIS. But, there's some missing link here. I know it.

Lutherf said:

McCain needs to STFU.

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the reason for your excessive anger is twofold. First, someone dares criticize your dear leader. The second is its McCain. Your stock whines about "libruls" doesn't apply and your are unable to rationalize it away. I also suspect the fact that we had 8 (or is it 9) Benghazi investigations and you cant explain the difference is only aggravating the situation.

Also, I find your "theory" particularly vile, disgusting and typical for people of your ilk. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Vern said:

the reason for your excessive anger is twofold. First, someone dares criticize your dear leader. The second is its McCain. Your stock whines about "libruls" doesn't apply and your are unable to rationalize it away. I also suspect the fact that we had 8 (or is it 9) Benghazi investigations and you cant explain the difference is only aggravating the situation.

Also, I find your "theory" particularly vile, disgusting and typical for people of your ilk. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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The reason why John McCain needs to STFU is because he's a vile and disgusting scumbag who's never right about anything when it comes to military actions. He's the clownish buffoon who tried to claim the military engagements in Iraq would be quick. That thundering oaf claimed for months that Sunni terrorists were crossing the Iraq/Pakistan border (which does not exist)to help the Shiah government engage in terrorism.

Vern said:

the reason for your excessive anger is twofold. First, someone dares criticize your dear leader. The second is its McCain. Your stock whines about "libruls" doesn't apply and your are unable to rationalize it away. I also suspect the fact that we had 8 (or is it 9) Benghazi investigations and you cant explain the difference is only aggravating the situation.

Also, I find your "theory" particularly vile, disgusting and typical for people of your ilk. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Thanks for your input. It's always a pleasure to hear from those with views different from my own.

Winston said:

Honor the dead. But, when Trump calls for the deaths of families of terrorist, where's the honor in that?

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It's called honesty. when you do it, and pretend that you don't like the last administration, where is the honor in that?

It is disgraceful when people exploit tragedy to further political gains. like prop up the Sandy Hook tragedy, to smear people as not tough on guns or whatnot. But, there's a difference between exploiting death and simple stating the facts. Heres the facts. Too many people died. If Trump had prepared, maybe it wouldn't have been such a bloodbath.

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What part of this was an already planned mission that was waiting for a new moon are you not getting? Furthermore, I would not blame obama anymore than I would have trump. they are not military strategists and know about as much as you do (I do know a hell of a lot more to be honest), about tactical missions. he trusted, those who were serving the previous administration.


its #fakenews that dishonors those who sacrificed so snowflakes can whine about trump.

But, Trump is on record saying We should kill the families of terrorists. Where's the honor in that?

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It's called honesty. when you do it, and pretend that you don't like the last administration, where is the honor in that? 26000 bombs, over 100000 airstrikes for the nobel lauriet, where was your outrage over the last 8 years?


I do hope trump keeps his, if not promise, his premise of maybe we should not be involved in all these wars to heart. I'm sure the left will protest it, ironically, but lets hope he keeps that.

Winston said:

Was Donald Trump's Yemen Raid A 'Winning Mission,' Or A 'Failure,' Like John McCain Said? : NPR





Trump also dropped a 3 part tweet whining about McCain and rambling on about "winning". Nice to see the president has finally come around to maturity, as he is clearly letting bygones be bygones. Written with a dignity that starkly contrasts the vulgarity of his predecessors as well.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/829682794951475200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Yeah. I mean I don't know what to say. This is the reality TV president y'all wanted. Any gross errors in judgement on Trump's part that cause loss of life or property will be construed as fake news and media spin that helps terrorists and illegal immigrants stop us from "winning".

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an absolute failure

ReverendHellh0und said:

It's called honesty. when you do it, and pretend that you don't like the last administration, where is the honor in that?




What part of this was an already planned mission that was waiting for a new moon are you not getting? Furthermore, I would not blame obama anymore than I would have trump. they are not military strategists and know about as much as you do (I do know a hell of a lot more to be honest), about tactical missions. he trusted, those who were serving the previous administration.


its #fakenews that dishonors those who sacrificed so snowflakes can whine about trump.





It's called honesty. when you do it, and pretend that you don't like the last administration, where is the honor in that? 26000 bombs, over 100000 airstrikes for the nobel lauriet, where was your outrage over the last 8 years?


I do hope trump keeps his, if not promise, his premise of maybe we should not be involved in all these wars to heart. I'm sure the left will protest it, ironically, but lets hope he keeps that.

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You and I are just going to see this very differently. I see a botched raid with civilian casualties and an administration forcing the public to consent to it. If Spicer and co. didn't already have a track record of dishonesty, I'd be more inclined to believe them. I don't trust them. I trust twitter more than I trust Trump and Spicer.

I still reserve hopes that Trump works on a Middle East Peace Deal. He made non-interventionist wars a cornerstone of his campaign. He pretended like he was against the Iraq war from the start. Claimed he predicted its failure, just a lie to puff himself up, but the implication is that he sees the reasons the Iraq war hurt the world. So, he may do a Middle East Peace Deal. He will have to reverse his position from the neoliberal one. Up to this point, U.S. position has been anti-Assad. This position has to reverse for a successful Middle East Peace Deal. We would have to go against Saudi interests.. Support Assad, join Russia, destroy ISIS, maybe even foster an agreement that includes the Kurds interests. I do hold that hope for Trump. And it's.. plausible.

Porkuloss said:

I do. Do you understand "optics"? "Fodder for anti-American propaganda"?

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Was i talking to you?

I don't have a ton of respect for either.

But, when it comes to military matters - I would take McCain's word over Trump's in a billionth of a second.

I mean, Trump is the same guy who not that long ago did not even know what the nuclear triad was.

If McCain - a Republican and decorated Vietnam veteran - says it was a failure...that is good enough for me until I see unbiased, factual proof to the contrary.

The fact that Trump is personally attacking McCain doubly makes me think the latter is right. WHen people know they are wrong - they usually resort to attacking the other person...a typical childish tactic.

Vern said:

the mission "was to capture or kill Qassim al-Rimi."

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Who are you quoting? Two of the bastards we know were killed, Sultan al Dhahab and Abulrauf al Dhahab, were significant enough figures in Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that killing them, by itself, was an important success.