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Kentucky Deputy Suspended Over ‘Muslim Holler Monkey’ Facebook Post

What about this officer's freedom of speech? Say he had made the same comment to several friends in his back yard, and the neighbor had been outside, overheard him, and complained to the sheriff's office. Is there any forum in which this deputy should have been able to say what he did, without being punished for it by the government?

I am sure millions of Americans, at one time or another, have said very derogatory things about a U.S. President. If a police officer someplace had printed and handed around on the street, while off duty, leaflets in which he called George W. Bush a "lying, Muslim-hating war criminal" and a "cowardly white boy who was trying to kiss his daddy's butt by finishing the war he started" and added that his wife was a "stupid cow," would the municipal department which employed him have violated his freedom of speech by punishing him for what he had written? What if the leaflet had included a cartoon of Bush made to look like a chimpanzee, kneeling in front of his Vice-President in a public restroom, as if to perform a homosexual act on him?

It is not any kind of a restriction on free speech. Free speech however like any other freedom has consequences if abused. In this case he put his job at risk.
 
It is not any kind of a restriction on free speech.

Actions by the county sheriff's department which employs this deputy are, for constitutional purposes, actions by the state of Kentucky. Starting in the 1920's, the Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment's guarantee of the freedom of speech as a limitation on the states through the Fourteenth Amendment.

Of course punishing this deputy for what he said is a restriction of his freedom of speech. And it is a restriction imposed by the state of Kentucky. The question is whether that restriction violates the First Amendment. And the answer does not depend on whether you or anyone else likes what this man said.
 
What about this officer's freedom of speech? Say he had made the same comment to several friends in his back yard, and the neighbor had been outside, overheard him, and complained to the sheriff's office. Is there any forum in which this deputy should have been able to say what he did, while not on duty, without being punished for it by the government?

I am sure millions of Americans, at one time or another, have said very derogatory things about a U.S. President. If a police officer someplace had printed and handed around on the street, while off duty, leaflets in which he called George W. Bush a "lying, Muslim-hating war criminal" and a "cowardly white boy who was trying to kiss his daddy's butt by finishing the illegitimate war he started" and added that his wife was a "stupid, fake-Christian cow who abused the kids in her classes" would the municipal department which employed him have violated his freedom of speech by punishing him for what he had written? What if the leaflet had included a cartoon of Bush made to look like a chimpanzee, kneeling in front of his Vice-President in a public restroom, as if to perform a homosexual act on him?

You're supposedly a lawyer, so it's unclear why you're taking a view of "freedom of speech" that you know is ignorant and wrong headed. You're fond of quoting cases, and I am guessing you also know that several have addressed this issue directly.
 
Actions by the county sheriff's department which employs this deputy are, for constitutional purposes, actions by the state of Kentucky. Starting in the 1920's, the Supreme Court has applied the First Amendment's guarantee of the freedom of speech as a limitation on the states through the Fourteenth Amendment.

Of course punishing this deputy for what he said is a restriction of his freedom of speech. And it is a restriction imposed by the state of Kentucky. The question is whether that restriction violates the First Amendment. And the answer does not depend on whether you or anyone else likes what this man said.

Oh come on. The county sheriff's department is in this context also an employer.

That's true the answer doesn't depend on whether we like it, but you know from the cases spewing racist/bigoted bilge in a public forum like Facebook isn't protected speech, government employer or not.
 
Oh come on. The county sheriff's department is in this context also an employer.

That's true the answer doesn't depend on whether we like it, but you know from the cases spewing racist/bigoted bilge in a public forum like Facebook isn't protected speech, government employer or not.

I do? What cases are you referring to?
 
You're supposedly a lawyer, so it's unclear why you're taking a view of "freedom of speech" that you know is ignorant and wrong headed. You're fond of quoting cases, and I am guessing you also know that several have addressed this issue directly.

No need to guess. Just name those cases, so that I can correct my ignorant and wrong-headed view.
 
I do? What cases are you referring to?

Connick is I believe the case that established the two prong test. The first and critical hurdle is that for it to be protected, it has to be on an area of "public concern." Racist/bigoted bilge isn't, and because of that there is no need to get to the balancing test. The guy can be fired.

If you have case law to support your view, I'm sure you'll provide a cite. But any Google search will show any number of public employees disciplined/fired for this kind of speech, and that's especially true for people like cops who for good reasons interact with the public, and can't be seen by the public they wield the power of life and death to be racist morons, so even if you get to the balancing test, he fails that one too.
 
What about this officer's freedom of speech? Say he had made the same comment to several friends in his back yard, and the neighbor had been outside, overheard him, and complained to the sheriff's office. Is there any forum in which this deputy should have been able to say what he did, while not on duty, without being punished for it by the government?

I am sure millions of Americans, at one time or another, have said very derogatory things about a U.S. President. If a police officer someplace had printed and handed around on the street, while off duty, leaflets in which he called George W. Bush a "lying, Muslim-hating war criminal" and a "cowardly white boy who was trying to kiss his daddy's butt by finishing the illegitimate war he started" and added that his wife was a "stupid, fake-Christian cow who abused the kids in her classes" would the municipal department which employed him have violated his freedom of speech by punishing him for what he had written? What if the leaflet had included a cartoon of Bush made to look like a chimpanzee, kneeling in front of his Vice-President in a public restroom, as if to perform a homosexual act on him?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean employers are obligated to continue supporting you.
 
Why do imbeciles like this deputy keep posting racist **** on Facebook?

Do they think nobody's gonna read it?

IKR! Especially with it being well known that many people have been fired from their jobs for posting something stupid on FB. One would think they would cover their tracks, like make a troll account with a fake name.
 
Yet at the end of that comment you post

"Everyone makes mistakes. It's what makes us human."

You seem to have already answered your own question.

I don't see that in her post - is it her signature? (I have them turned off)

Yes, we all make mistakes. We all have to pay for our mistakes, and he is paying for his.
 
Why is it anytime someone posts something bigoted and hateful about Islam practitioners it's racist? Are people that dumb who right for the Huffington post??? It's not racist. Prejudiced, hateful and bigoted yes, racist NO Islam is not a race.

I think "holler monkey" may be a tad racist.
 
He called Obama a monkey. That's racist.
No.
If it was not racist when done to Bush it wasn't racist now just because the Presidents skin color is different.
The shin color of the President's does not automatically change the intent behind it's use.

Could it be racist?
Of course it could be, but that depends on the speakers intent, which you have no knowledge of.





This is the guy that implied that the U.S government should have compensated those after the Civil War who lost their "property" (if you catch my drift).

It's not surprising that he is willing to defend such a blatantly racist statement as that one.
1. This isn't about me.

2. You made an unsupported claim.
Again.
If it was not racist when done to Bush it wasn't racist now just because the Presidents skin color is different.
The shin color of the President's does not automatically change the intent behind it's use.​

3. Read the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. No one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or [COLOR="#0000344"]property without due process of law."[/COLOR]
Lincoln freeing the slaves did not meet the requirement of the Due Process clause.

Not only that, but read how the Federal Government compensated some slave owners after forcing them to emancipate their property.

[...]

Only in the District of Columbia, which fell under direct Federal auspices, was compensated emancipation enacted. On April 16, 1862, President Lincoln signed the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. This law prohibited slavery in the District, forcing its 900-odd slaveholders to free their slaves, with the government paying owners an average of about $300 for each.

[...]

Compensated emancipation | United States | Wikipedia

Or if you like ...

The Congressional Record.


So don't try to cast aspersions when you don't have a clue as to what you speak as the argument is based soundly in the Constitution and actions by the Federal Government.
 
It was racist. "Muslim holler monkey" is racist when used against blacks. It is not when used against whites like Bush.

It's racist.
Wrong.
All it is is mockery and disparaging as it is if used against any other person.

monkey-palin-obama-clinton-putin-biden.png


It only becomes racist if the person did it has racist beliefs and used it because of those beliefs, which isn't something you have any knowledge of, or can just assume. That is where you argument fails.



Of course not. It's racist to joke that that was the half the person called a monkey.
iLOL
There is nothing racist about that, nor could you show it is.


Whites have not been called "monkeys" pretty much until Bush.
1. Bs.
Whites have been referred to as such far longer than that.
2. It was not always used to mock Bush's expressions.
The public (read democrat/liberal for the most part) lowering the standard to refer to the President in such a way was for disparagement of the person, just as it was for Obama, regardless if it was to sometimes mock expressions (how he looked) or not.


So yes calling the Obama's "monkeys" is indeed racist.
Nothing you presented supports your claim.


It's like calling a white person "nigger" and they laugh. Say it to most blacks.
No it is not like that.
There has to be racist intent behind it's use to claim it is racist.

Say it to blacks? iLOL A person getting upset because they do not like something does not mean it was racist.
 
Wrong.
All it is is mockery and disparaging as it is if used against any other person.

monkey-palin-obama-clinton-putin-biden.png


It only becomes racist if the person did it has racist beliefs and used it because of those beliefs, which isn't something you have any knowledge of, or can just assume. That is where you argument fails.



iLOL
There is nothing racist about that, nor could you show it is.


1. Bs.
Whites have been referred to as such far longer than that.
2. It was not always used to mock Bush's expressions.
The public (read democrat/liberal for the most part) lowering the standard to refer to the President in such a way was for disparagement of the person, just as it was for Obama, regardless if it was to sometimes mock expressions (how he looked) or not.


Nothing you presented supports your claim.



No it is not like that.
There has to be racist intent behind it's use to claim it is racist.

Say it to blacks? iLOL A person getting upset because they do not like something does not mean it was racist.

And some people wonder why racism is as bad as it is, lol.
 
And some people wonder why racism is as bad as it is, lol.
Wrong as usual and clearly unable to refute what was presented. Figures

Folks should stop making these ludicrous assumptive false claims of racist and racism, as that is where the real problem lies.
 
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Racist and transphobic. Nice combo there.
 
Wrong.
All it is is mockery and disparaging as it is if used against any other person.

monkey-palin-obama-clinton-putin-biden.png


It only becomes racist if the person did it has racist beliefs and used it because of those beliefs, which isn't something you have any knowledge of, or can just assume. That is where you argument fails.



iLOL
There is nothing racist about that, nor could you show it is.


1. Bs.
Whites have been referred to as such far longer than that.
2. It was not always used to mock Bush's expressions.
The public (read democrat/liberal for the most part) lowering the standard to refer to the President in such a way was for disparagement of the person, just as it was for Obama, regardless if it was to sometimes mock expressions (how he looked) or not.


Nothing you presented supports your claim.



No it is not like that.
There has to be racist intent behind it's use to claim it is racist.

Say it to blacks? iLOL A person getting upset because they do not like something does not mean it was racist.

There is a long history of dehumanizing blacks by associating them with apes in this country.
The Coon Caricature: Blacks as Monkeys
compareblackpeopleapes.1e_small.png


After the Civil War, the emancipation of slaves, and passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15 amendments to the Constitution, White bigots used the association to justify Jim Crow laws, and the use of violence, such as the lynching of Blacks who challenged or threatened the status quo. The general acceptance of the evolutionary theories of Charles Darwin was easily twisted into a means of identifying further "evidence" of the primitive status of Blacks. In the 1878 cartoon to the right, for example, an organ grinder's monkey is attacking a black child. Beneath is the caption, "Southern Scenes--An incident in Richmond, VA--The Darwinian Theory Illustrated". Presumably, the monkey feels that his position is challenged by the child, and he's defending his territory. Meanwhile, a drastically caricatured black man watches with a mirthful look on his face.

The depiction of Blacks as apes & monkeys found expression in mainstreamed popular culture around the turn of the century, especially in postcards. Often it was the zip or urban coon that was being caricatured, for the amusement of White consumers. Note the simian appearance of the Black Americans in each of the postcards to the left, and how they have been dandified. These images are intended to be ironic, and to cater to the White notion that Black coons are too stupid to understand that their efforts to assimilate into White culture only emphasize their inherent inferiority.

Photoshopped images of other leaders as apes is evidence of nothing. Except maybe of someone trying to manufacture "evidence".
 
There is a long history of dehumanizing blacks by associating them with apes in this country.
Yes, we all know that a history of others doing it exists.

Again.
It only becomes racist if the person did it has racist beliefs and used it because of those beliefs, which isn't something you have any knowledge of, or can just assume.
That is where the racist argument in this thread, as well as others, fails.

Just because a group of others in the past used it in a racist way does not mean you can assume it is racist now. This is again exemplified by it being used in regards to others, such as Bush, and by the fact that non-racists have depicted Obama as such.
 
Yes, we all know that a history of others doing it exists.

Again.
It only becomes racist if the person did it has racist beliefs and used it because of those beliefs, which isn't something you have any knowledge of, or can just assume.
That is where the racist argument in this thread, as well as others, fails.


Just because a group of others in the past used it in a racist way does not mean you can assume it is racist now. This is again exemplified by it being used in regards to others, such as Bush, and by the fact that non-racists have depicted Obama as such.

Says who? The racist origins of this stuff can't be washed away because racists click their heels and wish it so. Trying to white wash it and cover it up with excuses like it's someone's sincere belief these images are not racist so it isn't, is just crap. Associating blacks with apes was popularized by racists and it will always carry the stench of racism. Deservedly so.
 
Of course not. It's racist to joke that that was the half the person called a monkey.

You know this man.

I don't see how the fact a person calls another person a monkey proves the speaker was motivated by racial animosity. Did the pseudo-liberals who used to delight in mocking President George W. Bush as a chimpanzee, sometimes hopping up and down while making chimp-like noises and scratching under their arms, mean to derogate Caucasians?

What about George McClellan, who commanded the Army of the Potomac and later ran against Abraham Lincoln, whom he detested, in the 1864 presidential election? McClellan, while a general, once wrote a letter to a member of Lincoln's cabinet who was a personal friend. In it, he remarked that a sweat stain he had noticed on the back of Lincoln's shirt one hot day had had very much the shape of the continent of Africa. This meant there was no need to go all the way to Africa in search of the missing link, McClellan joked; here it was right in Washington, wearing a mark as if to identify its origin. Of course McClellan could not just have been mocking the hirsute, long-armed Lincoln as a subhuman, simian creature, but must have meant to make a racial slur against Caucasians.
 
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Freedom of speech doesn't mean employers are obligated to continue supporting you.

That is pretty much true of private employers. Whether it is true of government employers is a much more complex question. A person does not completely lose his freedom of speech by becoming a public employee, any more than a student completely loses his freedom of speech by attending a public school.

It is revealing that so many people who claim to be liberals are so determined to silence anyone who says things they don't like. True liberals--most of whom these days call themselves constitutional conservatives--defend the right of persons they personally find repulsive to say despicable things. And the more despicable the speech, the more strongly we defend the right to engage in it.

The fake liberals who are so prevalent today loathe the First Amendment almost as much as they loathe the Second and the Tenth. They worship at the shrine of political correctness, an un-American and thoroughly illiberal doctrine, originally concocted by European Communists, which is by its nature hostile to the freedom of speech. These intolerant fakes are put to shame by the truly liberal Jewish lawyers who, forty years ago, led the fight all the way to the Supreme Court for the right of a group of Nazi goofballs to parade, in full regalia, through a town they had purposely chosen because it was largely inhabited by survivors of Nazi concentration camps.
 
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He should sue the county for auspending him without cause

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