Donald Trump risks China rift with Taiwan call

CCP Dictators in Beijing are always lecturing about something, scolding about something else, furious at almost anything. Somebody soon may need to slap 'em on the nose with a newspaper or to kick 'em right into the doghouse where they rightfully should be put. First things first might be a rabies shot.

It is understood that key members of the Taiwan delegation to the inauguration also met with key U.S. officials during their seven day visit to Washington. Former Premier Yu Shih-Kun who is a former chairman of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party of President Tsai Ing-wen led the delegation which included National Security Council adviser Tung Chen-yuan and a number of Taiwan lawmakers and mayors.

While Yu was diplomatic and coy about meeting with Obama and/or Trump administration officials, Yu did say he and his group met with Senators and members of the House, experts at think tanks and "Taiwanese expatriates."

So here's a rundown on the whole of it...



China is furious at Trump again, this time for allowing Taiwan delegation to attend the inauguration

China is furious at Trump again this time for allowing Taiwan delegation to attend the inauguration



It’s ‘gloves off’ if Trump continues his Taiwan line as president, China Daily warns

“It seems wishful thinking to assume Trump and his team’s remarks on Taiwan have been based on bluster and miscalculation. On the contrary, it appears the next administration is intending to use the one-China policy as its trump card.”

The state-owned newspaper proceeded to warn that if Trump were to continue down that road once he takes office, “a period of fierce, damaging interactions will be unavoidable, as Beijing will have no choice but to take off the gloves.”

While Beijing concedes that its retaliation “may be costly,” it believes it “a worthy price to pay to make the next US president aware of the special sensitivity, and serious consequences of his Taiwan game.”

https://www.rt.com/news/373803-china-trump-taiwan-us/



‘No way:’ China urges US to forbid Taiwan delegation from attending Trump inauguration

Beijing is warning that the “so-called delegation” could “disturb or undermine Sino-US relations.”
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said Beijing was opposed to Taiwan, which China considers a renegade province, sending its own representatives to “engage in activities to interfere in or damage China-US ties.”

“We again urge the relevant side in the United States not to allow the Taiwan authority to send a so-called delegation to the United States to attend the presidential inauguration and not have any form of official contact with Taiwan,” Hua told a news briefing on Wednesday.

“China’s position has already accurately and unmistakably been given to the US administration and Trump’s team,” she added.


China is furious at Trump again this time for allowing Taiwan delegation to attend the inauguration




Taiwan tells Beijing to grow up over Trump ceremony row

By AFP

Former premier Yu Shyi-kun, who is leading Taiwan’s delegation hit back. “Don’t be so small,” Yu, who belongs to the ruling Beijing-sceptic Democratic Progressive Party, was quoted as saying by Taiwan’s state Central News Agency. “There hasn’t been any leader with such a narrow mind in all Chinese dynasties,” added Yu, referring to Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Asked whether he had met with officials from former President Barack Obama’s outgoing administration or Trump’s new one, Yu was cautious. “According to the norms and understanding that we have between Taiwan and the U.S., if we have any meetings with members of the administration we cannot disclose that,” he said.

Taiwan envoy hails U.S. ties after Trump inauguration | The Japan Times


May you live in interesting times.

Mac77 said:

No, hillary was a complete failure as Sec of State

and four dead Americans in Libya is only one of her more obvious examples of incompetence

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The first sentence is representative of the extreme and reckless statements of political pulp that comes incessantly from the rightwing.

Second statement is more political spam canned and right off the shelf. Even Trey Gowdy Doody's select committee on Ben Ghazi said after HRC giving 11 hours before the committee in one day that there wasn't anything new. Which meant there isn't anything period after seven committees over five years and $40 million bucks.

However, the shelf of the righwing supermarket remains full up and heavily stocked of political spam. The sacks of rightwing political pulp are at the rear.

Tangmo said:

The first sentence is representative of the extreme and reckless statements of political pulp that comes incessantly from the rightwing.

Second statement is more political spam canned and right off the shelf. Even Trey Gowdy Doody's select committee on Ben Ghazi said after HRC giving 11 hours before the committee in one day that there wasn't anything new. Which meant there isn't anything period after seven committees over five years and $40 million bucks.

However, the shelf of the righwing supermarket remains full up and heavily stocked of political spam. The sacks of rightwing political pulp are at the rear.

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OK you disagree

Progressives always seem to see things differently

But after 8 years in power the results for your way of thinking are pretty dismal

Mac77 said:

OK you disagree

Progressives always seem to see things differently

But after 8 years in power the results for your way of thinking are pretty dismal

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The middle sentence is meaningless -- it is vacuous indeed.

Of course the varied diverse and different groups of a society see things differently from each other. Differences will vary but that should be unnecessary to note. Yet the record shows the Ben Ghazi crap was five years and seven committees of $40 million of political trash hauled around by Republicans in Congress and from the mass of highly financed lying rightwing media.

You are wandering in the wilderness in making what is only a feeble statement.

Phys251 said:

Trump's stupidity and impulsiveness are literally going to get people killed.

This is not normal. For a president of either political party.

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We might eagerly pay a penny for Donald's thoughts about giving Taiwan...The Bomb.

Nobody's discussing it publicly but it does have a pocket in Trump's wildman talk about letting Japan make The Bomb(s), and the same for South Korea, Germany (anybody but Mexico eh). We know Israel has The Bomb times about twenty yet, for all the peril Israel continues to have to deal with, Taiwan is in a much more demanding defense circumstance (against Bigfoot).

Virtually every major power or particularly endangered country has its last line of defense, i.e., The Bomb (most typically). Kim & Co. in North Korea know it would be the only thing to assure their rule in perpetuity (unless Kim initiated a first strike which Kim is highly unlikely to do given he as a thirtysomething lives the high life personally and commands an entire state).

Either way yes or no, Trump has certainly upped the ante for the Boyz in Beijing in respect of Taiwan and the USA. Taiwan's prominently absent last line of defense the past couple of decades is a modern submarine force. CCP Dictators in Beijing have intimidated EU and other nations selling any current generation diesel sub to Taiwan.

If Trump could get a Taiwan modern sub fleet going instead, the world could loose less sleep over The Bomb getting proliferated to several countries to maybe include Taiwan. (Don't put Trump past it.)

Taiwan has already implemented AirSea Warfare on the model of the Pentagon (which itself was motivated by CCP China's naval and missile expansion programs). Taiwan's ongoing AirSea Defense capabilities are mighty already, however, there is no last line of defense as every such country must have, in Taiwan's case modern subs. Given Taiwan has dominance over CCP of the air to include the surface waters of the Strait, Tapei having modern subs would propel its defense posture to prohibitive of CCP attack.

If Trump could get Russia to sell Taiwan a fleet of its Kilo-class advanced diesel subs then we might see some reason to believe Trump has leverage with Putin instead of Putin playing Trump by his strings every time. Morel discussed over recent time however is the U.S. out of production Barbel-class Barracuda SSK fast attack sub that would more than suffice in the Taiwan strait. Washington could authorize GE to sell the rights to Taiwan which would turn to Netherlands to build 'em. The Barbel SSK technology transitioned USN to nuclear powered subs so as a diesel powered sub it still outclasses any diesel sub CCP has.

Anything viable such as the Barbel SSK is better than The Bomb. Trump thrives on reversing everything he can squeeze in of USA historic policies and it was Potus Reagan who in 1988 put the lid on a deep secret Taiwan nuclear weapons program uncovered by CIA. Given Trump's otherwise needed focus on CCP aggressions and bellicosity, and their revanchism and irredentism, I myself don't put anything past Donald Trump and WMD.

Tangmo said:

The middle sentence is meaningless -- it is vacuous indeed.

Of course the varied diverse and different groups of a society see things differently from each other. Differences will vary but that should be unnecessary to note. Yet the record shows the Ben Ghazi crap was five years and seven committees of $40 million of political trash hauled around by Republicans in Congress and from the mass of highly financed lying rightwing media.

You are wandering in the wilderness in making what is only a feeble statement.

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Hillary failed to fill requests for greater security in Libya

She was too busy with other things to care

And when the whole mess blew up in her face she froze and let 4 Americans die without lifting a finger to save them

Mac77 said:

Hillary failed to fill requests for greater security in Libya

She was too busy with other things to care

And when the whole mess blew up in her face she froze and let 4 Americans die without lifting a finger to save them

Click to expand...

Yes, the rightwing supermarket remains super stocked with canned political spam. There are aisles of it never mind shelves only.

And the sacks of political pulp remain stacked up at the rear where they sell out regularly and without fail. Every day.

It is desperation that brings Ben Ghazi to this thread too. An unrelenting need of the rightwing to throw far and wide sacks of political pulp and canned political spam. Ceaselessly.

There's an old saying among lawyers that when you have the facts, pound on the facts but when you don't have the facts pound on the table. What the right can't see is that their Ben Ghazi table has as their last resort been pounded into a shattered heap since long ago.

Tangmo said:

Yes, the rightwing supermarket remains super stocked with canned political spam. There are aisles of it never mind shelves only.

And the sacks of political pulp remain stacked up at the rear where they sell out regularly and without fail. Every day.

It is desperation that brings Ben Ghazi to this thread too. An unrelenting need of the rightwing to throw far and wide sacks of political pulp and canned political spam. Ceaselessly.

There's an old saying among lawyers that when you have the facts, pound on the facts but when you don't have the facts pound on the table. What the right can't see is that their Ben Ghazi table has as their last resort been pounded into a shattered heap since long ago.

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I seemed you have insulted your idol by blaming her for the Benghazi debacle

I guess you just can't stand to hear the truth but there it is

Mac77 said:

I seemed you have insulted your idol by blaming her for the Benghazi debacle

I guess you just can't stand to hear the truth but there it is

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That's extreme extreme now.

And of course wrong as is obvious.

I'd already mentioned desperate. And sacks of pulp piled up in the rear corner of the rightwing supermarket. Selling all stock daily they are.

Tangmo said:

That's extreme extreme now.

And of course wrong as is obvious.

I'd already mentioned desperate.

And sacks of pulp piled up in the rear corner of the rightwing supermarket. Selling all stock daily they are.

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Why should I be desperate?

You lost the election and any influence you might have had over policy

My side won

Mac77 said:

Why should I be desperate?

You lost the election and any influence you might have had over policy

My side won

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Trump and his knowledgeable and savvy CCP China advisers are doing the right things about Taiwan -- also, the South China Sea. My own posture in these respects has gained considerably by the election of Donald Trump and the people he has continued to have with him on these issues.

Your Ben Ghazi bent and Clinton commotion have kept you too busy and out of place at the thread to notice. There are new issues and new fights to pursue. Yet you continue to be both desperate and disconnected enough to hang onto the the old and discredited ones the sore winners on the right have ingrained into themselves...forever.

It's become clear for instance prospective SecState Rex Tillerson was right on the Trump SCS and Taiwan policy mark when he spoke during his confirmation hearing. Washington hasn't lost or gained any allies in the East Asia-India strategic region as any consequence of what Trump or Tillerson have been saying loudly and clearly. China remains isolated.

CCP Dictators in Beijing are in a sudden thicket about their pernicious grand designs. Their only response has been their usual and predictable one, i.e., to lecture, to scold, to badger and to engage in fierce rhetoric. They do this because they are at a pigheaded loss to radically have the USA coming down on 'em for what they always had taken for granted was a free ride to the top. Fact of the matter it was always going to be belly up for 'em, sooner or later. The shocker to 'em is that both sooner or later have arrived rather harshly for 'em in the present...and going forward. Game over as CCP goes into looping spins and emitting a lot of smoke.

It's the old truism of it's not so much what happens as instead how one reacts to an adverse shock, such as Taiwan first and foremost but to include the SCS. The Boyz in Beijing are handling this badly and because of their rejection of being called to account times are getting tough for everyone. The Boyz only bully more and provoke all the more. This goes only in one direction and the end result is predictable.

Top advisers to each PE Trump and Pres. Tsai had in late November been discussing the timing and the content of the congratulatory phone call that did occur December 2nd when the decision of what to say and when was inadvertently helped along by CCP Dictators in Beijing.

November 26th CCP Dictators tested then Potus-Elect Donald Trump by flying two of the Party's, er, People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) Xian H-6 bombers, along with two escort fighter aircraft, a (Russian) Tupolev Tu-154 and a Shaanxi Y-8, to circumnavigate Taiwan. Tellingly however, the PLA Air Force craft did not enter into or violate the Taiwan Air Defense Identification Zone, which would have forced a defense action response by the Taiwan armed forces which were already at a high state of alert and readiness.

It took only a couple of days for Trump and Tsai to decide to make their call then and there. Significantly, Potus Trump and Pres. Tsai have taken the initiative from the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. The Boyz in Beijing are now reacting to events initiated by the United States instead of themselves precipitating events and developments.

Here's the story of the whole picture in a superb piece by Gregory R. Copley, Editor, GIS/Defense & Foreign Affairs...


Strategic surprise: Trump challenges China’s breakout from containment

Beijing knocked on back foot by Tsai-Trump Dec. 2 phone call

It is now a geostrategic reality that China as a geopolitical entity — in other words, not just the PRC as a government — has broken out of several centuries of containment. The reality of the new global geostrategic architecture is now evident, and many in the Trump team recognize this, and are attempting to formulate positions for the U.S. to recover its strategic capabilities and credibility. The Tsai-Trump telephone call recognized that a new approach to the PRC was necessary. That the PRC Government was so unprepared for the opening salvo was the major strategic surprise.

[P]ossibly for the first time since 1979, the U.S. now sees that the ROC can play a critical role in constraining PLA Navy (PLAN submarines and surface fleet elements) from easily breaking out into the Central Pacific via the Luzon Strait, south of Taiwan, or via the East China Sea to the north of the island.

What is undeniable in all of this is that the geostrategic architecture of the region has been changed, irreversibly for the foreseeable future, and that the U.S. is now moving toward a period when it will re-engage on more creative terms befitting the new realities.

Strategic surprise: With Dec. 2 Taiwan call, Trump challenges China’s breakout from containment – World Tribune: Window on the Real World


CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing are much the same as any dictators seeking dominance, control, power over all others. They probe until they are smacked upside the head, then they stop and chill for a while. Rinse and repeat. The real stuff begins when the dictators go OTT which they always do eventually.

Bannon says within the next ten years but I'd give his meaning as being the next ten months. Ten weeks is conceivable. Two new super aircraft carriers and the Strike Force that each commands -- to include subs which are deliberately never mentioned -- are coming online this year, and another carrier is coming out of overhaul.

When then Potus Obama announced his Asia Pivot in 2011 he said 60% of U.S. military assets would be in the Pacific-East Asia by 2020. It's ahead of schedule as 70% of USN assets are there now. The carrier Carl Vinson and its Strike Force 1 are for instance presently in the South China Sea, having arrived January 20th. It's a rare day now that a carrier and its strike force are not in the SCS as the Pentagon has made interoperable the 3rd Fleet and the 7th Fleet in the Pacific Theatre (east Pacific fleet--west Pacific fleet).


Steve Bannon: 'We're going to war in the South China Sea ... no doubt'

Only months ago Donald Trump’s chief strategist predicted military involvement in east Asia and the Middle East in Breitbart radio shows

Wednesday 1 February 2017

The United States and China will fight a war within the next 10 years over islands in the South China Sea, and “there’s no doubt about that”. Those are the views – nine months ago at least – of one of the most powerful men in Donald Trump’s administration, Steve Bannon, the former head of far-right news website Breitbart who is now chief strategist at the White House.

“They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face – and you understand how important face is – and say it’s an ancient territorial sea. You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian west is on the retreat,” Bannon said during a February 2016 radio show.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...non-donald-trump-war-south-china-sea-no-doubt


U.S. is looking out for its own interests while being committed absolutely to keeping open the international sea lanes of the SCS. U.S. has the quiet yet strong support of all but two of the countries that have SCS shoreline and territory, so U.S. is taking care of business all around. U.S. is supported throughout the region from Japan to include India.

CCP Dictator-Tyrants are isolated. They do not care however, as long as CCP are politically isolated and not Air-Sea blockaded. Because the Chinese continue to believe that no one can resist an assertive China. Yet that is where they are seriously wrong. Dead wrong. This is the 21st century not the 12th. One press of a button and all the fully armed CCP islands are gone...poofed in five minutes.

US has naval and air bases in Guam, Japan, South Korea (to include the 8th Army and the 7th Air Force), (effectively Taiwan also), the Philippines, Singapore, Australia, as well as military facilities in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikstan. India is now a strategic partner and has new and massive air and naval facilities in the Andaman Islands at the north side of the Malacca Strait. U.S. is therefore well placed to militarily respond and to repel CCP expansion and aggressions whether by Air-Sea blockade on a large scale or as a limited operation..

U.S. would get a bloody nose but CCP would get kicked in the balls for it. A hard and swift cruncher of a kick.

So that brilliant gambit worked out great for us. Glad the administration is thinking these things through in advance.

BEIJING — By backing down in a telephone call with China’s president on his promise to review the status of Taiwan, President Trump may have averted a confrontation with America’s most powerful rival.

But in doing so, he handed China a victory and sullied his reputation with its leader, Xi Jinping, as a tough negotiator who ought to be feared, analysts said.

“Trump lost his first fight with Xi and he will be looked at as a paper tiger,” said Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University of China, in Beijing, and an adviser to China’s State Council. “This will be interpreted in China as a great success, achieved by Xi’s approach of dealing with him.”

Mr. Trump’s reversal on Taiwan is likely to reinforce the views of those in China who see him as merely the latest American president to come into office talking tough on China, only to bend eventually to economic reality and adopt more cooperative policies. That could mean more difficult negotiations with Beijing on trade, North Korea and other issues.

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Greenbeard said:

So that brilliant gambit worked out great for us. Glad the administration is thinking these things through in advance.

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I have a feeling the next few years will feature ****ups like this on a monthly basis.

Greenbeard said:

So that brilliant gambit worked out great for us. Glad the administration is thinking these things through in advance.

Click to expand...

Trump and his CCP China advisers had Xi Jinping thanking Trump profusely for confirming U.S. recognition of the "One China" policy. Recall One China is not U.S. official policy. U.S. official policy in this respect is to recognize that the existence of One China is how the country of China is seen in Beijing and in Taipei. USA hasn't ever had a One China policy so there's nothing for Washington to defend or abandon in it.

Xi Jinping had sent to Trump what Trump called a very beautiful New Year's message and cards, the new year beginning January 1st. However, the Chinese (lunar) New Year which is a different date each time fell on January 28th this year with nothing from Trump arriving at Xi's office or official residence inside the high and thick walls of Beijing's Kremlin, the huge ZhongNanHai compound a couple of blocks from Tiananmen. January 28th came and went, nothing from Trump.

As we have the 12 days of Christmas, the Chinese have their 16 days of their New Year. Given that the 5th day is an auspicious one, Jared Kushner's wife and kid visited the CCP embassy in Washington to express good wishes in the Year of the Rooster while the kid sang a popular Chinese new year song in Mandarin. Word got around afterward Jared Himself had also met privately and secretly with the CCP Ambassador, Cui Tiankai.

On the 15th day of the Chinese New Year, the eve of the Abe visit with Trump, Xi got his spirits lifted by a personal letter of new year greetings from Trump to include well wishes. The Trump letter did of course provide the uplifted Xi with the opportunity to call Trump so the two could chirp personally for the first time.

Each said everything went fine and dandy smoochy poo. Xi is furious however. For the first time in decades Washington will be sending Pentagon high officials civilian and military to Taiwan to engage with Taiwan military and civilian commanders to include observing military maneuvers. Taiwan will reciprocate by sending some of their own to USA to observe maneuvers and to chat together over coffee, tea or milk...and maps, charts, budgets.

Look for the Trump administration to release the arms package Taiwan signed for but Potus Obama never released to arrive to Taiwan soon. Then expect a Trump administration arms package twice or three times the quantity and quality of the package soon to be released.

The Democratic Progressive Party of Pres. Tsai Ing-Wen hasn't ever recognized the "One Country-Two Systems" principle that was negotiated with Beijing by the KMT party in government in 1992. DPP was swept into the presidency and, for the first time, majority control of the parliament by the Sunflower Revolution in Taiwan. Xi has cut all formal and official communication between Beijing and Taipei until Pres. Tsai begins to behave like a province rather than a country. CCP would be wise not to look forward to hell freezing over anytime soon. Or at all.

Greenbeard said:

So that brilliant gambit worked out great for us. Glad the administration is thinking these things through in advance.

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Those who have not thought through the Trump MO to create confusion and chaos then to grab the prize when no one is looking just haven't yet caught on. Probably won't either.

AIT is the American Institute in Taiwan which is a private entity that since 1979 serves as an unofficial U.S. Embassy to Taiwan, in Taipei. It is in fact staffed by U.S. diplomatic corps personnel of the State Department who do a tour of duty at AIT the same as at any U.S. Embassy in any country of the world. Now it's going to get U.S. Marines, same as any and every U.S. Embassy everywhere in the world.

Remember now and forever, the One China policy is Beijing's policy only. It is not U.S. policy. U.S. recognizes that CCP Boyz in Beijing have a One China policy. Washington has never had a One China policy. Washington will never will have one or it. Looks maybe like Beijing won't have one for very much longer besides.


U.S. Marines to be posted at new AIT compound in Taipei

26 Feb 2017

US President Donald Trump’s decision to deploy Marines at a US representative’s office in Taiwan is yet another challenge to Beijing’s most cherished one-China principle. Uniformed Marines would guard its new Taipei office upon its completion later this year.

Taiwanese Minister of Foreign Affairs David Lee Ta-wei said Taipei would discuss with Washington sending a similar defence force to its de facto embassy in the US. Deploying US Marines [to Taiwan] is a strong signal that will create a more visual symbol of official ties by having uniformed Marines at the gate of a diplomatic mission in a nation’s capital.

As a matter of protocol, only nations with formal ties allow military personnel to be stationed at diplomatic missions. The development suggests Trump is determined to renegotiate with Beijing the fundamental "One China" principle that has guided bilateral relations for decades.

https://beastwatchnews.com/why-a-fe...aiwan-pose-so-many-problems-for-china-us-ties
Why a few American marines in Taiwan pose so many problems for China-US ties | This Week In Asia | South China Morning Post


Xi Jinping in his phone call to Potus Trump made the mistake of the uninitiated by believing something Trump said that is designed to be calm and reassuring. Nothing about Donald Trump is calm or reassuring. CCP Boyz in Beijing still haven caught on that Trump and his CCP China advisors are as dumb as the proverbial fox. Their MO is strictly to create confusion, Confususion then chaos to move in swiftly to grab the prize as planned and schemed. So if the CCP Boyz in Beijing aren't careful, Taiwan will one day be an officially recognized sovereign independent state with an official U.S. Embassy before the Boyz can sit down to breakfast.


Hey, while deploying a dozen US Marines is insignificant militarily it is almost certain it's the first quick step to U.S. deployment of more significant armed-forces in Taiwan coming soon. I note that in a WSJ article last year former ambassador to the UN John Bolton who sits informally in the Trump inner circle suggested the US move half its troops from their bases in Okinawa to Taiwan. In the article Bolton advocated recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign independent nation with a U.S. Embassy in Taipei and for Taipei to establish a formal embassy in Washington.

Oops. Sounds like a plan.