• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama says marijuana should be treated like ‘cigarettes or alcohol’[W:137]

Re: Obama says marijuana should be treated like ‘cigarettes or alcohol’

Mac77 said:
not true

as more chinese got hooked on opium demand increased and so did importation

The chinese government tried to stop it but the european powers - Britain - were militarily stronger that china and the won the Opium Wars
Click to expand...

Poor phrasing on my part. I meant that their attempts to stop or even slow the increase was completely unsuccessful.

Otherwise, it appears we're agreeing.

What lesson do you think we should take from China's opium history?
 
Mac77 said:
Is that the only opinion on the subject from that era?
Click to expand...

No, you can do the search yourself and quickly find plenty more, telling the same general story. You're the one asserting the small amounts of cocaine in Coca Cola led to these big problems. Present your evidence. I've never seen it and I've looked.

I concede that whites were overtly concerned with race and skin color then just as blacks and guilt-ridden white liberals are today

So if you wanted to win a debate playing the race card then worked just as well then as it does in reverse today.
Click to expand...

I don't see a relevant point on the topic there. Mine was simple - it wasn't some reasoned concern about society's inability to handle cocaine that led to banning it. Same with pot. It was ignorance and myth, lies, racism.
 
JasperL said:
No, you can do the search yourself and quickly find plenty more, telling the same general story. You're the one asserting the small amounts of cocaine in Coca Cola led to these big problems. Present your evidence. I've never seen it and I've looked.



I don't see a relevant point on the topic there. Mine was simple - it wasn't some reasoned concern about society's inability to handle cocaine that led to banning it. Same with pot. It was ignorance and myth, lies, racism.
Click to expand...

You are using pot as your example but in fact the push to legalize drugs includes the hard stuff too

If prejudge against blacks influenced White society to outlaw pot that does not explain my disapproval of it today or the disapproval by millions of other Americans

Stop playing the race card cause it won't work with me

Pot is bad for adolescent brains that are still developing

And for many people it's a gateway drug to harder stuff
 
Mac77 said:
You are using pot as your example but in fact the push to legalize drugs includes the hard stuff too
Click to expand...

Right, which is why the example you quoted was about cocaine. And, again, you asserted that Coca Cola led to addiction - please provide your evidence.

If prejudge against blacks influenced White society to outlaw pot that does not explain my disapproval of it today or the disapproval by millions of other Americans
Click to expand...

We're going in circles here. Your disapproval of pot or cocaine or alcohol has nothing to do with the question, which is whether we should continue the War on Drugs. I disapprove of "drug" use in all its forms except for occasional recreational use, and I believe the War on Drugs has failed, and we can alleviate the problems of addiction (which is the real problem with "drugs") BETTER by treating it as a public health issue and not a criminal one.

Stop playing the race card cause it won't work with me
Click to expand...

I'm pointing out that outlawing cocaine (in this example) was more about racism than public health. It's not a 'race card' at all - just the facts as I see them. If you'd like to dispute my view of the issue, please provide some support for your argument.

Pot is bad for adolescent brains that are still developing
Click to expand...

OK, and we'll still prohibit sale of pot to minors, who can get it today in any HS with a phone call.

And for many people it's a gateway drug to harder stuff
Click to expand...

LOL, the actual gateways are nicotine and alcohol....
 
JasperL said:
I'm pointing out that outlawing cocaine (in this example) was more about racism than public health. It's not a 'race card' at all - just the facts as I see them. If you'd like to dispute my view of the issue, please provide some support for your argument.
Click to expand...

It does not matter what some people may have said at the time

The fact is that whites were consuming the coca cola and "rheumatic" medicine

Often by people who wanted to get high without the stigma of drinking booze

If getting high on coke caused no social problems the people of that day would not have stopped doing it.

Or banned the use of it.

And cocaine is still as bad today as it was then
 
Mac77 said:
It does not matter what some people may have said at the time

The fact is that whites were consuming the coca cola and "rheumatic" medicine

Often by people who wanted to get high without the stigma of drinking booze

If getting high on coke caused no social problems the people of that day would not have stopped doing it.

Or banned the use of it.

And cocaine is still as bad today as it was then
Click to expand...

OK, you're not willing to provide any evidence of why we banned cocaine and pot and heroin, and aren't addressing the broader question of whether the War on Drugs achieves any goal, or even attempting to make a case that the costs for what meager gains the War on Drugs does accomplish are worth it, so I guess we can leave it there.

I think we'll see pot legalization will go pretty well, and over time we'll as a country become more and more willing to recognize drug use and addiction for what it really IS - a public health issue - and continue backing away from treating it as a primarily criminal problem. Same way we recognized the problems of alcohol prohibition and when we repealed prohibition, the violence all but disappeared nearly overnight. We now, correctly in my view, treat alcoholics in rehab clinics and AA rooms rather than sending them to jail. The only criminal penalties associated with alcohol are, rightly, doing something while drunk that does or might injure OTHERS, like driving a car, etc.
 
JasperL said:
OK, you're not willing to provide any evidence of why we banned cocaine and pot and heroin, and aren't addressing the broader question of whether the War on Drugs achieves any goal, or even attempting to make a case that the costs for what meager gains the War on Drugs does accomplish are worth it, so I guess we can leave it there.

I think we'll see pot legalization will go pretty well, and over time we'll as a country become more and more willing to recognize drug use and addiction for what it really IS - a public health issue - and continue backing away from treating it as a primarily criminal problem. Same way we recognized the problems of alcohol prohibition and when we repealed prohibition, the violence all but disappeared nearly overnight. We now, correctly in my view, treat alcoholics in rehab clinics and AA rooms rather than sending them to jail. The only criminal penalties associated with alcohol are, rightly, doing something while drunk that does or might injure OTHERS, like driving a car, etc.
Click to expand...

It would be a total waste of time because whatever I presented you will deny.

I spent years reading about this subject and I can't give you a history lesson on it now.

Just ask yourself privately do people become hooked on and strung out by cocaine and heroin today?

If the answer is yes then it stands to reason they were getting hooked on it then also.

I know liberals think society is much smarter and more advanced today that it was then.

But humans have not changed in any meaningful way in regard to getting hooked on drugs
 
Mac77 said:
It would be a total waste of time because whatever I presented you will deny.

I spent years reading about this subject and I can't give you a history lesson on it now.

Just ask yourself privately do people become hooked on and strung out by cocaine and heroin today?

If the answer is yes then it stands to reason they were getting hooked on it then also.
Click to expand...

I've never disputed that. They were hooked and strung out on alcohol then, too, and we banned it, realized it was a colossal mistake, and reversed course. Why we think prohibition can EVER work for other drugs better than it did for alcohol is a mystery, and you're not making an argument for it other than "drugs are bad" which no one disputes.

I know liberals think society is much smarter and more advanced today that it was then.

But humans have not changed in any meaningful way in regard to getting hooked on drugs
Click to expand...

That's a straw man, and in any event some version of 'liberals suck' not an argument. I've made mine, not sure why you don't address my actual arguments instead of this stuff.
 
JasperL said:
I've never disputed that. They were hooked and strung out on alcohol then, too, and we banned it, realized it was a colossal mistake, and reversed course. Why we think prohibition can EVER work for other drugs better than it did for alcohol is a mystery, and you're not making an argument for it other than "drugs are bad" which no one disputes.
Click to expand...

Alcohol and hard drugs are not the same

Alcohol has been a central part of almost every known culture in history

Beer, wine, and distilled spirits have been commonplace for 10,000 years

Kings and peasants alike openly endulged

Even the Pilgrims drank because the water would mske them sick

But drugs have always been on the fringe and not a central part of most cultures

So prohibition was impossible and ahcohol has been a problem for soviety ever since

Legalizing drugs only increases the problem of abuse and addiction
 
Mac77 said:
Alcohol and hard drugs are not the same

Alcohol has been a central part of almost every known culture in history

Beer, wine, and distilled spirits have been commonplace for 10,000 years

Kings and peasants alike openly endulged

Even the Pilgrims drank because the water would mske them sick

But drugs have always been on the fringe and not a central part of most cultures

So prohibition was impossible and ahcohol has been a problem for soviety ever since
Click to expand...

So, your friends drink, you might as well (I don't know), so alcohol is different and drugs those 'others' use should be banned, and users and sellers thrown in JAIL? Sometimes for LIFE? It's not a persuasive argument.

Legalizing drugs only increases the problem of abuse and addiction
Click to expand...

That's probably true if we change nothing else but making "drugs" legal, but I'd hope we'd be smarter than that and spend some of the $30k per year it costs to jail a drug dealer or user on drug treatment programs, public health campaigns, etc.

And admittedly we don't have a lot of real world examples, but Portugal's experience simply doesn't support your baseless assertion there - that legalization necessarily increases the problem of abuse and addiction. Example: More at this source

15-24-drug-use.jpg

The data are similar for other metrics - deaths, HIV infection rates, etc. They could be unique, and there was lots of changes in Portugal other than legalizing drugs, but the point is their approach - decriminalizing ALL drugs - simply did not result in an explosion of use, abuse or addiction. Use went down in fact....
 
Re: Obama says marijuana should be treated like ‘cigarettes or alcohol’

Ya too bad the feds are trying to reclassify canibus oils and dabs as a schedule 1 drug. Say and do one thing with 1 hand. Do and say other things with the other.
 
Re: Obama says marijuana should be treated like ‘cigarettes or alcohol’

TheDemSocialist said:
How did someone overdose on "marijuana sticks"?
Click to expand...

He overate lots of fatty food, and had a heart attack. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Obama says marijuana should be treated like ‘cigarettes or alcohol’

This is one of the few policies that I actually agree with Obama on. There are far more reasons to legalize it than to keep it illegal and putting more burden on the tax payers
 
Fenton said:
Obama's decision to keep Marijuana as a schedule 1 drug for the length of his Presidency is one thing I actually agree with

Mysterious illness tied to marijuana use on the rise
Mysterious illness tied to marijuana use on the rise in states with legal weed - CBS News
Click to expand...


"CHS can lead to dehydration and kidney failure, but usually resolves within days of stopping drug use. That’s what happened with Crowder, who has been off all forms of marijuana for seven months.

“Now all kinds of ambition has come back. I desire so much more in life and, at 37 years old, it’s a little late to do it, but better now than never,”he said."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom