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Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most of Us

Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Did you mourn bin laden? Saddam?

No.

But Communists are not evil. They had made mistakes like USA. But they had virtues as well.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

This is why I don't believe you know much about either situation historically. Your distinction suggests that Native Americans weren't being oppressed or/and butchered long after the places they lived in were colonized, taken over, whatever you'd like to call it. A basic US history review shows that to be false. So again, the question remains, is there such a thing as a moral or immoral oppression of peoples? No.

That aside, I can see why people are doing the same thing you are doing when it comes to Castro. Our own feelings on the man aside, he was a hero to many Cubans who didn't benefit from Batista's regime as much as the Italian mob did. Then, the man, in a grasp for power, ended up torturing any opponents in order to secure what benefits he'd given a large percentage of the country. That same percentage who wouldn't have otherwise had access to what are generally known as some of the best schools in Latin American when it comes to medicine. This is a fact accepted even by states in the region generally opposed to Castro (Traditionally: Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, etc).

The guy also eradicated literacy problems to the point where Cuba has stood miles above its Latin American neighbors and rivals those of practically any industrialized nation. You'd be hard pressed to go to Cuba and find a Cuban who cannot read. I' spent years in Mexico and regularly found people living IN medium sized cities who couldn't speak Spanish much less read it.

Then again, I find that the man's biggest crimes were his eradication (as my wife's father puts it - he's Cuban:) of all political institutions existing before 59, his complete information isolation of the island (i.e. no widely available sources of information like the internet even in the 90s, his destruction of a somewhat* free press, etc) and finally his support for guerillas outside in Latin America.

In short, the man was a dictator but to believe he did anything for his people that an average citizen living under Batista wouldn't justify after 59 is absolutely insane. Kind of like how you're defending certain slaughterings as moral because well, if we go by your statements, war is hell.

Your position is myopic at best.

Didn't read all that, but justifying a murderous communist dictator is kinda weird..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

No.

But Communists are not evil. They had made mistakes like USA. But they had virtues as well.

Nah, communists are evil alright..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Surprise surprise. Yet another example of you talking about your own perceived superiority when you have yet to prove a single one of your points.

Well, let's start with a point which I know to be false and you seem to be under the impression that it isn't - Fidel becoming "a villain" in his country months after rising to power:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba–United_States_relations#Post-revolution_relations

U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower officially recognized the new Cuban government after the 1959 Cuban Revolution which had overthrown the Batista government, but relations between the two governments deteriorated rapidly. Within days Earl T. Smith, U.S. Ambassador to Cuba, resigned his post to be replaced by Philip Bonsal. The U.S. government became increasingly concerned by Cuba's agrarian reforms and the nationalization of industries owned by U.S. citizens. Between 15 and 26 April 1959, Fidel Castro and a delegation of representatives visited the U.S. as guests of the Press Club. This visit was perceived by many as a charm offensive on the part of Castro and his recently initiated government, and his visit included laying a wreath at the Lincoln memorial. After a meeting between Castro and Vice-President Richard Nixon, where Castro outlined his reform plans for Cuba,[24] the U.S. began to impose gradual trade restrictions on the island. On 4 September 1959, Ambassador Bonsal met with Cuban Premier Fidel Castro to express “serious concern at the treatment being given to American private interests in Cuba both agriculture and utilities.”[25]

Here, we have the American picture of things, where Fidel Castro is presented as a villain to US interest and it meshes well with the view that Fidel was a villain. However, on the other side of the coin:

The Institutionalization of the Cuban Revolution in the 1960s | ReVista

Unlike the CTC, the Federation of Cuban Women was relatively free of conflicts. Born with and for the revolution, the FMC gave many women their first opportunity to have a life outside the home. Women constituted a reservoir of support for the revolution, and the FMC readily tapped it. More than 19.000 women who had been household servants had graduated from special schools and were now otherwise gainfully employed. The seamstress programs had trained 7.400 rural women in the use of sewing machines and now they were instructors to 29.000 young peasant women. Although they were not as serious as those of the CTC, the FMC also experienced problems as a mass organization. In 1963, the federation acknowledged that cadres were carrying out their tasks mechanically and were generally inattentive to members of the rank and file, who were themselves becoming apathetic. Cadres too frequently followed directions from above without creative adaptation to their specific chapters, and communicated the directions to their members as orders. There was thus a general loss of popular elan.

I also bring your attention to his rallies. Well into the 90s (when he still held 5 hour sessions) his rallies simply numbered in the tens of thousands by foreign estimates. Let's go to 1960 and say we have only a fraction of that population is there because they really believe in the system, another fraction is there because it was forced but believes in the system, and a percentage which was forced and disagreed with the system, these groups are mutually exclusive. They are representative of his rallies.

If the percentage of those who supported Fidel's rise in '59 (practically the entire lower working class - which was as large as 2% below 8 out of 10 Cubans) but didn't by 1960 rose by 10%, it would still leave the man with a majority of the island's 7.1 million inhabitants (those are 1960s numbers). So again, your ad popullum argument that we should go by what Cubans say: your argument that Castro became a villain in the months after his rise to power simply isn't true from what we know of Cubans living the 1960s.

http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1906&context=honors_theses

View attachment 67210423

It's on page 22 of the document (20 of the PDF). Again, these are facts well accepted in academia about the man - I'm sure they won't really impact your arguments.
 
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Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Nah, communists are evil alright..

They made mistakes, but they had no more victims then USA with mass incarceration and many wars.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

They made mistakes, but they had no more victims then USA with mass incarceration and many wars.

Nope, terrible oppressive evil incarnate..

Communists are just as bad if not worse than nazis, with socialists picking up a close 3rd..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Didn't read all that, but justifying a murderous communist dictator is kinda weird..

I find that having a personal signal beaming into Trump's mind to be a little weird, but I don't say much about it unless it's true. Do you understand what that means, Trump supporter?
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

I find that having a personal signal beaming into Trump's mind to be a little weird, but I don't say much about it.

Yeah, it's insane how right I am about basically everything that has happened to do with this election, almost like I have a personal signal beaming into Trump's mind or something..

Chilling..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Do we really hear Castro accused of anything the U.S. government hasn't done itself, if not engaged in the facilitation of?

I don't think it's a question that Castro has done unsavory things, or conversely that in many respects he helped accomplish fantastic things for Cuba. What the most pertinent point in our relations with Cuba is our hypocrisy in the criticism we level towards them.

I think a lot of people here who expressing sympathy for Castro's death is because of this tendency and I think the explosive reaction to that is pretty indicative of that very reason.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Yeah, it's insane how right I am about basically everything that has happened to do with this election, almost like I have a personal signal beaming into Trump's mind or something..

Chilling..

Wait, you guessed Trump was going to win on this forum since March, and you think it's almost like you had a personal beaming signal into Trump because you were right about everything happened since March? That being Clinton losing?

Oh my gosh. Yep. It's like you have a personal beaming signal into Trump's mind. I really think you do. You asserted, that out of two candidates one would win and got it right.

Definitely sounds like a signal was beaming out to you, buddy.

Congratulations.

:)
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Communists are just as bad if not worse than nazis

Not even close. During Stalin's purges, 700,000 people were executed and 1.4 million died in GULAG -- mostly during the War when food was scarce for everyone. Nazis killed 11 million people in concentration camps and millions of civilians.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Not even close. During Stalin's purges, 700,000 people were executed and 1.4 million died in GULAG -- mostly during the War when food was scarce for everyone. Nazis killed 11 million people in concentration camps and millions of civilians.

Good for them.. Both equally evil if you count more than just bodies..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Well, let's start with a point which I know to be false and you seem to be under the impression that it isn't - Fidel becoming "a villain" in his country months after rising to power:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba–United_States_relations#Post-revolution_relations



Here, we have the American picture of things, where Fidel Castro is presented as a villain to US interest and it meshes well with the view that Fidel was a villain. However, on the other side of the coin:

The Institutionalization of the Cuban Revolution in the 1960s | ReVista



I also bring your attention to his rallies. Well into the 90s (when he still held 5 hour sessions) his rallies simply numbered in the tens of thousands by foreign estimates. Let's go to 1960 and say we have only a fraction of that population is there because they really believe in the system, another fraction is there because it was forced but believes in the system, and a percentage which was forced and disagreed with the system, these groups are mutually exclusive. They are representative of his rallies.

If the percentage of those who supported Fidel's rise in '59 (practically the entire lower working class - which was as large as 2% below 8 out of 10 Cubans) but didn't by 1960 rose by 10%, it would still leave the man with a majority of the island's 7.1 million inhabitants (those are 1960s numbers). So again, your ad popullum argument that we should go by what Cubans say: your argument that Castro became a villain in the months after his rise to power simply isn't true from what we know of Cubans living the 1960s.

http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1906&context=honors_theses

View attachment 67210423

It's on page 22 of the document (20 of the PDF). Again, these are facts well accepted in academia about the man - I'm sure they won't really impact your arguments.

Your own source alludes to the fact that Castro cracked down hard on his own people--- workers "clashing" with the government, etc. Women had an opportunity outside the home for the first time--- and immediately fell victim to your usual communist bull**** of purges, etc. Not even to mention the fact that despite all the egalitarian rhetoric, things on the ground were quite different for women than you'd have us believe-- they still faced heavy discrimination.

You fall into the same trap all westerners seem to, where you equate showing up at rallies as support. In reality, most of those people were likely there because not showing up would be a black mark on their record and could lead to reprisals from the secret police. The Romanian dicatator in the late 80s could hold huge rallies too. Guess how he ended up.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Wait, you guessed Trump was going to win on this forum since March, and you think it's almost like you had a personal beaming signal into Trump because you were right about everything happened since March? That being Clinton losing?

Oh my gosh. Yep. It's like you have a personal beaming signal into Trump's mind. I really think you do. You asserted, that out of two candidates one would win and got it right.

Definitely sounds like a signal was beaming out to you, buddy.

Congratulations.

:)

So I do or what?

It has been a hell of a lot more just than who won the election though to be fair.. I can't believe how right I am about all of this stuff all the time.. Seems like magic..
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Both equally evil if you count more than just bodies..

No way. Communists did not commit more crimes/mistakes then did USA. Communists also created a Welfare State -- great achievement now copied in Scandinavia.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Do we really hear Castro accused of anything the U.S. government hasn't done itself, if not engaged in the facilitation of?

I don't think it's a question that Castro has done unsavory things, or conversely that in many respects he helped accomplish fantastic things for Cuba. What the most pertinent point in our relations with Cuba is our hypocrisy in the criticism we level towards them.

I think a lot of people here who expressing sympathy for Castro's death is because of this tendency and I think the explosive reaction to that is pretty indicative of that very reason.

:lamo

Ah, the usual tendency of the left to whine about America whenever we dare criticize a dictator or group. It'd be funny if it wasn't so dumb.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

No way. Communists did not commit more crimes/mistakes then did USA. Communists also created a Welfare State -- great achievement now copied in Scandinavia.

Yes, they did.

For somebody who likes to talk about what an awful soviet citizen they were you certainly seem to parrot their line circa 1984 perfectly.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

For somebody who likes to talk about what an awful soviet citizen they were you certainly seem to parrot their line circa 1984 perfectly.

I was never a Soviet patriot -- I was never Russian and will never become an American. I am Jewish.

I see many problems with every society I live in.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

No way. Communists did not commit more crimes/mistakes then did USA.
Against their own people.. It's about how they treat their OWN people, not what wars they fight.. Also the conditions they create for their own people, disgusting. Communists, socialists, etc.. Dictatorships..

What crimes matter to me, yes they sure have..

Communists also created a Welfare State

EVIL!!
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

I was never a Soviet patriot -- I was never Russian and will never become an American. I am Jewish.

I see many problems with every society I live in.

Then why not go live in Israel? If you don't feel your an American, I don't see why you'd want to stay.

Seeing problems in a society is not the same thing as claiming blatantly untrue things.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Against their own people.. It's about how they treat their OWN people, not what wars they fight.. Also the conditiond they create fr their own people, disgusting. Communists, socialists, etc.. Dictatorships..

USA has the same incarceration rate as USSR did in the height of purges. The Welfare State is a great achievement.

I have Moderate Autism and Moderately Severe Depression -- people with disabilities do not fit well in USA.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

I was never Russian and will never become an American.

 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Then why not go live in Israel? If you don't feel your an American, I don't see why you'd want to stay.

Being disabled I depend on my parents' care.
 
Re: Journalists Hail Castro’s Achievements, ‘George Washington,’ ‘Folk Hero to Most o

Your own source alludes to the fact that Castro cracked down hard on his own people--- workers "clashing" with the government, etc.

This has never been in contention. That hardly makes a villain anymore than any US president who did the exact same with unions in the early 20th century. Does it? If it does, we're back at digsbe's dichotomy.

It makes him combative of unions, which has been a well established path for 100 years since their beginnings in literally hundreds of states where they've risen. People for some reason seem to pick on unions because they fear the power of labor unity. Again, this is why I don't believe you understand the words you are using and why if you couldn't understand my NA "analogy" much less discuss the situation to any degree.
 
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