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Donald Trump: I may not repeal Obamacare

rocket88 said:
Perhaps they should. But is your only contribution here going to be "but...but...liberals?"
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It does not surprise me that "but . . . but . . . liberals?" is how you read me. :roll:

Oh, well.
 
Just wait till Trump hats admit to all those blue collar voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin among other places that he cannot bring jobs that left the States nor can he prevent any future companies from leaving our shores as well. Then it will really hit the fan.
 
cpwill said:
Yes they do. Democrats chose to pass it via Reconciliation, Republicans can get rid of it via Reconciliation.
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PPACA wasn't a reconciliation bill.

haymarket said:
Just wait till Trump hats admit to all those blue collar voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin among other places that he cannot bring jobs that left the States nor can he prevent any future companies from leaving our shores as well. Then it will really hit the fan.
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Might as well ease in with Kentucky: McConnell: It’s ‘hard to tell’ if ending ‘war on coal’ will bring back jobs.
 
Orly? said:
I guess no one read the other thread on this very topic where it has already been debunked..
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There are so many threads on this it's hard to keep track. It's nice to know the MSM has learned nothing with Trump being elected. They all came from the news conference with the same single headline.

Trump should just blacklist the MSM.
 
reinoe said:
There are so many threads on this it's hard to keep track. It's nice to know the MSM has learned nothing with Trump being elected. They all came from the news conference with the same single headline.

Trump should just blacklist the MSM.
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The people are blacklisting the MSM.. At least as far as credibility..
 
Greenbeard said:
PPACA wasn't a reconciliation bill.
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:shrug: you are deliberately conflating the Senate Version with the actual ACA that was passed and signed by the President, and doing so deceptively, because someone as well-read as you knows better. Massachusetts - Massachusetts!!! - elected a GOP Senator to allow a filibuster to stop Obamacare, and so Democrats did an end-run using the reconciliation process instead.

Live by Reconciliation. Die by Reconciliation. I can't think of a piece of legislation that deserves it more.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: you are deliberately conflating the Senate Version with the actual ACA that was passed and signed by the President, and doing so deceptively, because someone as well-read as you knows better.
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The Senate's bill is what was signed by the President. And it passed with 60 votes.

You're confusing it with HCERA, which was a targeted reconciliation bill that was passed separately to tweak pieces of the PPACA to satisfy the House. But the PPACA itself was not a reconciliation bill--and couldn't have been, as it's filled with things that can't be touched via reconciliation.
 
Greenbeard said:
The Senate's bill is what was signed by the President.
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:shrug: that is deliberately deceptive

You're confusing it with HCERA, which was a targeted reconciliation bill that was passed separately to tweak pieces of the PPACA to satisfy the House. But the PPACA itself was not a reconciliation bill--and couldn't have been, as it's filled with things that can't be touched via reconciliation.
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Because this is a distinction without a difference. The HCERA was a reconiciliation of Obamacare passed explicitly to get around the 40th GOP vote against it.


Live by Reconciliation.

Die by Reconciliation.


We warned you at the time.
 
cpwill said:
Because this is a distinction without a difference. The HCERA was a reconiciliation of Obamacare passed explicitly to get around the 40th GOP vote against it.
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You can certainly repeal what's in HCERA via reconciliation.

Most of what's in PPACA, on the other hand, you cannot.
 
Down the road the democrats can take credit for getting universal health care started, but the Republicans must make it work.

If we let business and the free market manage it, things will be fine. If central control becomes the trend, then it will be the mess it is now. BTW, I have to remind my wife to get a prostate exam along with her breast exam. The old system didn't do that... Hmmm... Heh. See how she likes it! LOL
 
Greenbeard said:
You can certainly repeal what's in HCERA via reconciliation.

Most of what's in PPACA, on the other hand, you cannot.
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On the contrary. We will repeal and replace Obamacare by whatever means necessary.


We warned you of this when you chose to radically change 1/8th of the US economy and enact a major entitlement structure on the narrowest of possible margins, on a party line vote, using every possible parliamentary trick possible to ram it as far left as you could. You thought it would create a large constituency addicted to the subsidies, and that therefore, like Social Security and Medicare (which were bipartisan), it couldn't be taken away.

You thought wrong.

We warned you at the time. If I may channel POTUS: Elections Have Consequences.
 
cpwill said:
On the contrary. We will repeal and replace Obamacare by whatever means necessary.
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I don't think you're getting this.

There's a reason the vaunted repeal bill that went to Obama's desk only repealed 3-4 things. It was a reconciliation bill and most of the ACA was off limits to it.
 
Greenbeard said:
There's a reason the vaunted repeal bill that went to Obama's desk only repealed 3-4 things.
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Yeah, because that was easier to pass and useful to force Democrats to vote on.

You are the ones who weaponized the Reconciliation process. No crying now because we do it right back to undo your damage.
 
cpwill said:
Yeah, because that was easier to pass
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Exactly! That's my point.

A full repeal of the ACA would need 60 votes. Repealing a few taxing and spending provisions via reconciliation is much easier.

It's nice that Trump is saying kind things about the consumer protections in the ACA but the reality is that it's impossible to repeal them via reconciliation.
 
Greenbeard said:
I don't think you're getting this.

There's a reason the vaunted repeal bill that went to Obama's desk only repealed 3-4 things. It was a reconciliation bill and most of the ACA was off limits to it.
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And this tactic is exactly why it was poison from the day it passed until the day it is replaced.

If SS was passed that way, we would not have it today. SS was passed with a 313-115 margin (with 5 not voting). It was not unanimous, but it included a majority of both parties. Obamacare on the other hand was known for the Cornhusker Kickback, Al Frankins fraudulent election giving them the final vote they needed for a simple majority to get around the 2/3'rds requirement for major pieces of legislation. Why 2/3'rds? Because they learned through experience that big programs take majorities of both parties to make it work. Marginalize the other party like Obama did, and you will go down in flames. As it will.

"The fruit of the poison tree must be destroyed".
 
chuckiechan said:
If SS was passed that way, we would not have it today. SS was passed with a 313-115 margin (with 5 not voting).
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The 74th Congress had 322 Democrats, 3 Farmer-Laborers, and 7 Progressives in the House.

I'm pretty sure if Nancy Pelosi had had 332 in her caucus and Harry Reid had 70 Democratic Senators, the margins for health care reform would have been similarly impressive.
 
Good. Perhaps Trump won't turn out to be as big of a disaster as Clinton and the Democrats made him out to be...
 
cpwill said:
On the contrary. We will repeal and replace Obamacare by whatever means necessary.


We warned you of this when you chose to radically change 1/8th of the US economy and enact a major entitlement structure on the narrowest of possible margins, on a party line vote, using every possible parliamentary trick possible to ram it as far left as you could. You thought it would create a large constituency addicted to the subsidies, and that therefore, like Social Security and Medicare (which were bipartisan), it couldn't be taken away.

You thought wrong.

We warned you at the time. If I may channel POTUS: Elections Have Consequences.
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Repeal may happen, but for some reason I doubt the "replace" part. Do you really think TrumpCare will be better than ObamaCare? It will be more palatable to the GOP Congress, but that's largely because there won't be a Democrat's name attached to it.

Also, one of the right's favorite criticisms of ObamaCare was that it wasn't bipartisan. Can you see this becoming bipartisan? I'm sure this will be all different...because it always is.

In the end, if ObamaCare is replaced by TrumpCare, I can't picture it being that much different or better.
 
Carleen said:
He will appear on 60 minutes tomorrow night. Part of what he said about the aca is he will repeal and replace at the same time and no one will lose their healthcare and it will be cheaper. How he plans to achieve this is what is concerning.
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I see repeal with no replace. Back to the old system of "pray to Jesus that you don't get sick." After which Democrats will clean up in the midterms.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Good. Perhaps Trump won't turn out to be as big of a disaster as Clinton and the Democrats made him out to be...
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He won't be. But I don't think he'll be any better than Bush or Obama.
 
chuckiechan said:
And this tactic is exactly why it was poison from the day it passed until the day it is replaced.

If SS was passed that way, we would not have it today. SS was passed with a 313-115 margin (with 5 not voting). It was not unanimous, but it included a majority of both parties. Obamacare on the other hand was known for the Cornhusker Kickback, Al Frankins fraudulent election giving them the final vote they needed for a simple majority to get around the 2/3'rds requirement for major pieces of legislation. Why 2/3'rds? Because they learned through experience that big programs take majorities of both parties to make it work. Marginalize the other party like Obama did, and you will go down in flames. As it will.

"The fruit of the poison tree must be destroyed".
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I see you guys are still sore that Franken won. So many of the fraudulent votes in that election admitted to voting for his opponent, did you know that?
 
rocket88 said:
Repeal may happen, but for some reason I doubt the "replace" part. Do you really think TrumpCare will be better than ObamaCare?
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I have no idea. If he is willing to use the ideas the GOP has had on the shelf for a couple years, like the Better Way stuff, then yes. But Trump himself is a Single Payer fan, and the GOP has shown itself utterly backbone-less when it comes to standing up to him, so :shrug: who knows.

Also, one of the right's favorite criticisms of ObamaCare was that it wasn't bipartisan. Can you see this becoming bipartisan? I'm sure this will be all different...because it always is.
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It could become bipartisan. You can guarantee universal access to health care along conservative principles - Indiana has done a lot of good work with its Medicaid program reforms, or example.

Back to the old system of "pray to Jesus that you don't get sick."
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The GOP plan (at current) is to include a provision that you cannot be denied insurance for pre-existing conditions if you had insurance when that condition developed. In this way, they fix the current incentives to free-ride the system, while still protecting those with pre-existing conditions.

After which Democrats will clean up in the midterms.
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Democrats in 2018 have to defend 10 Senate Seats in states that Trump won, that they won by riding Obama's coat-tails in 2012. It's not impossible, but it's going to be an uphill climb for them.
 
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