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Hillary Completely Avoids Debate Question On Clinton Foundation ‘Pay-To-Play’

Kal'Stang said:
You are correct. I was just plain D thinking wrong. Either way though, 916 million still does not add up to "billionS".

Now, combined, taking advantage of all the tax cuts that is legally available, perhaps it might add up to billions over many years. We don't know. It's also possible that he's paid that much in taxes also. We simply do not know. The part that I am flummoxed on is that people are being so outraged by this when every single person takes advantage of every thing that they can to not pay as much in taxes also. And more often than not they too are proud of it also. I don't blame them one bit. I do it to.
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I appreciate the clarification.

I think the part people are "outraged" about is the fact that most people who take deductions need them. When I take a deduction, it's to help pay the bills and put food on the table. Donald Trump has no such problem. He brags about how rich he is and what a great businessman he is. He flies around in his own plane.

For him to not pay ANYTHING in federal taxes is rather offensive to people who do, especially when the people who do tend to need the money much more than Trump does. Even as a Trump supporter (if you are), surely you can see why someone who makes $28,000 a year and struggles to provide for their family feels someone who brags about being a multi-billionaire ought to provide to the federal coffers as well. Right?

I also want to be clear about something else. I think the "outrage" most people feel is less about Trump (hardcore left-wing partisans aside) and more about the system which allows Trump to do it. And they, for lack of a better expression, take it out on Trump right now because not only did he benefit from it, he advocates for a tax plan which would make it even easier for him to not pay taxes. If Trump said, "Yes, I took advantage of those laws, but I am presenting a tax plan which not only removes those unfair laws, I'm also making it so people like me who haven't paid their fair share are going to be required to do so in the future", I don't think there would be much furor. In fact, Warren Buffett has basically said that very thing.

The problem comes from someone who lives an incredibly wealthy lifestyle who doesn't contribute like a lower middle-class citizen does but also wants to adjust tax laws to further benefit and further not pay taxes. By every account I've seen, Trump's tax plans does more to benefit people like him than it benefits anyone else. And for someone who struggles to make ends meet, it's very understandable why they would be upset about that.

Why would bankers (she was talking to bankers) care about energy being shared across borders? Especially considering that energy is already being shared across our borders with both Mexico and Canada. Not to mention that the "common market" that she mentions includes far more than just green energy.
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Two points:

1) Until we are able to see a full transcript of the speech, we cannot know the context. I've looked for it but have been unsuccessful. If you can find it, I'd appreciate it.

2) The principle charge against Clinton regarding the "open borders" comment has been that she wants open immigration. Using your same line of logic, why would bankers care about free movement of people across country borders in the hemisphere? I would argue bankers would care more about energy than they would people moving from El Salvador to Guatemala.

I don't know if Clinton's comment was about energy or not. I'd want to hear/see her comment in full context. But I think energy is just as likely, if not more so, to have been her point than open immigration, especially given her audience, as you noted.
 
American said:
I was a bit pissed that the moderator didn't spend the entire debate peppering Clinton about the email server, and then stay on top of her as she answered; like they did to Trump on the first debate. She needed her comeuppance.
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It's hard keeping up with the different email issues. There is the private server with all the classified information on it, DNC server. Podesta's gmail, the DNC server again, Podesta's phone, the Clinton Foundation server and the DCCC server.
 
Lachean said:
IKR, Open borders being about electricity?!? GTFO here. Her opposition to the Heller decision being about securing guns from toddlers. :roll:

Aside from the Roe v Wade question, I think he did well and she blatantly lied/dodged.
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When she said the open borders thing was about energy I about laughed out loud. It was an outright lie to cover her ass with the low information voter. I forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
 
NonoBadDog said:
When she said the open borders thing was about energy I about laughed out loud. It was an outright lie to cover her ass with the low information voter. I forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
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I lol'd at Trump..."That was a great pivot off of the fact that she wants open borders, okay? When did we get off to Putin?"

hahaha
 
Kal'Stang said:
Billions? Stole? He only lost close to a million and got a tax break for that. You have no idea if he's paid or not after that year. Not to mention he does the same thing that every other business person does. Take advantage of the tax code to avoid paying as much in taxes as possible. And business people aren't the only ones that take advantage of every tax break possible. Joe blow down the street does to. Not to mention 49% of American's don't pay any taxes at all. Thanks to how the tax system is. And its all legal. Are you really going to claim that everyone "stole" something just because they used the tax code to their advantage? You'd have to blame 99% of the country for such a thing. Including Hillary. Hell, like Trump says, she very well could have tried to get the tax code changed to not allow such things. But did she? Hell no. Her friends like Soros would dump her faster than Hillary can pander.
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He pays less in taxes than a secretary making $40k/year. That is stealing from her, yes, and incredibly cheap. He is totally unworthy to be in charge of a small county's finances much less the presidency

I already said i would never support Hillary, but no, she was 1/100 senators under a republican president. Not at all the same as the position she's seeking. She has also vowed to raise taxes on the wealthy both for college and to keep SS solvent. How much is anyone's guess and that's a big problem i have with the debate format
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066447210 said:
Please tell us what laws Trump broke. Can't wait... :nails
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i didn't say he broke any laws; i said he's a thief
 
chromium said:
i didn't say he broke any laws; i said he's a thief
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They're all thieves. The rich have our entire system rigged to extract every last asset right in front of our eyes.
That's the plan anyways.
 
Kal'Stang said:
He did ignore his use of illegal aliens. However he did admit that he used Chinese steel. He also said that he could have been stopped from using Chinese steel via laws and he wouldn't have had a problem with it.
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Thats what he said, but laws have never stopped him from doing anything because he has the money to buy his way out of the consequences.
 
Schism said:
They're all thieves. The rich have our entire system rigged to extract every last asset right in front of our eyes.
That's the plan anyways.
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Yeah it's like when he accuses her of not changing the law, i just think back to the pic of Trump with the Clintons when they were in the white house and yeah, HE should have gotten the law changed. He is entirely to blame for it, because billionaires have far more influence than a single senator. Frequently they buy multiple of them!
 
chromium said:
Roughly half of jobs in this country are now thru nepotism, and includes government contracts. Do i expect better than average from a presidential candidate? Yes. But then again, Trump stole far more from taxpayers by not paying taxes on his billions for 20+ years, and just falling back on "You don't like it, change the law" doesn't come anywhere near excusing it
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How do you figure taking credit for a 900M loss is stealing anything from the tax payers?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Billions? Stole? He only lost close to a million and got a tax break for that. You have no idea if he's paid or not after that year. Not to mention he does the same thing that every other business person does. Take advantage of the tax code to avoid paying as much in taxes as possible. And business people aren't the only ones that take advantage of every tax break possible. Joe blow down the street does to. Not to mention 49% of American's don't pay any taxes at all. Thanks to how the tax system is. And its all legal. Are you really going to claim that everyone "stole" something just because they used the tax code to their advantage? You'd have to blame 99% of the country for such a thing. Including Hillary. Hell, like Trump says, she very well could have tried to get the tax code changed to not allow such things. But did she? Hell no. Her friends like Soros would dump her faster than Hillary can pander.
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That would be billion with a b.

I am shocked Trump didn't mention at the debate that for the 2015 tax year Hillary took a $700,000 credit for a loss, even though she doesn't even have a business.
 
ocean515 said:
The colossal strawman on the WikiLeaks issue was stunning. And then the bizarre "think of the toddlers" 2nd Amendment ramblings was a jaw dropper.

I couldn't help but picture Hillary in the days before the debate, facing her sycophants in practice debates, coming up with ways on how to answer similar questions.
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I said that to the screen as well?

She said dozens of toddlers are shooting people.

Where are the news stories on that little bit of news?
 
Slyfox696 said:
A million?

Perhaps we're thinking of different things, but when I read chromium's accusation about not paying taxes on his billions, I thought that referenced Trump's 1995 tax return where he claimed a $916 million dollar loss.

And that was just one year's tax return. Since we haven't seen any of his others, but Trump seems awfully proud of not paying taxes, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility he's claimed well over a billion dollars (if not billions of dollars) in losses over the years.

Again, perhaps we're thinking of different things? If you could clarify what you mean, I'd appreciate it.
Here is her exact quote:

"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."

Source: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927

What do you think that means?
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Each country has it's own electric grid.

Why would the US want to connect their grid to another country?
 
rhinefire said:
Trump refuses to address the fact he uses illegal immigrants and Chinese steel to build his buildings.
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He addressed the Chinese steel directly. I want to know how something as large as steel can be brought in and sold into the US if it was illegal?

Was everybody asleep that day?

As far as the illegals hired, Trump hires contractors and does not have control over their employees, just like any other developer.

If you want to go after the contractors, then by all means do so.
 
Mason66 said:
I said that to the screen as well?

She said dozens of toddlers are shooting people.

Where are the news stories on that little bit of news?
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Why Mason, them there toddlers are the vanguard of the coming skin head race riots. They got pictures of Hitler and everything.
 
Kal'Stang said:
He did ignore his use of illegal aliens. However he did admit that he used Chinese steel. He also said that he could have been stopped from using Chinese steel via laws and he wouldn't have had a problem with it.
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Hillary said the Chinese steel was illegal and Trump used it.

Why didn't anybody fact check her?
 
Slyfox696 said:
I appreciate the clarification.

I think the part people are "outraged" about is the fact that most people who take deductions need them. When I take a deduction, it's to help pay the bills and put food on the table. Donald Trump has no such problem. He brags about how rich he is and what a great businessman he is. He flies around in his own plane.

For him to not pay ANYTHING in federal taxes is rather offensive to people who do, especially when the people who do tend to need the money much more than Trump does. Even as a Trump supporter (if you are), surely you can see why someone who makes $28,000 a year and struggles to provide for their family feels someone who brags about being a multi-billionaire ought to provide to the federal coffers as well. Right?

I also want to be clear about something else. I think the "outrage" most people feel is less about Trump (hardcore left-wing partisans aside) and more about the system which allows Trump to do it. And they, for lack of a better expression, take it out on Trump right now because not only did he benefit from it, he advocates for a tax plan which would make it even easier for him to not pay taxes. If Trump said, "Yes, I took advantage of those laws, but I am presenting a tax plan which not only removes those unfair laws, I'm also making it so people like me who haven't paid their fair share are going to be required to do so in the future", I don't think there would be much furor. In fact, Warren Buffett has basically said that very thing.

The problem comes from someone who lives an incredibly wealthy lifestyle who doesn't contribute like a lower middle-class citizen does but also wants to adjust tax laws to further benefit and further not pay taxes. By every account I've seen, Trump's tax plans does more to benefit people like him than it benefits anyone else. And for someone who struggles to make ends meet, it's very understandable why they would be upset about that.

Two points:

1) Until we are able to see a full transcript of the speech, we cannot know the context. I've looked for it but have been unsuccessful. If you can find it, I'd appreciate it.

2) The principle charge against Clinton regarding the "open borders" comment has been that she wants open immigration. Using your same line of logic, why would bankers care about free movement of people across country borders in the hemisphere? I would argue bankers would care more about energy than they would people moving from El Salvador to Guatemala.

I don't know if Clinton's comment was about energy or not. I'd want to hear/see her comment in full context. But I think energy is just as likely, if not more so, to have been her point than open immigration, especially given her audience, as you noted.
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You can say many things about Trump but you cannot say he does not contribute.
 
She also completely avoided the question about her dream of an open border, instead shrieking about Wikileaks and Putin. Luckily for her, Trump is not very good at the whole debate thing and let her get away with it.
 
chromium said:
i didn't say he broke any laws; i said he's a thief
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A thief implies he took something that belonged to somebody else.

What did he take exactly?
 
chromium said:
Yeah it's like when he accuses her of not changing the law, i just think back to the pic of Trump with the Clintons when they were in the white house and yeah, HE should have gotten the law changed. He is entirely to blame for it, because billionaires have far more influence than a single senator. Frequently they buy multiple of them!
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You are blaming a businessman for not changing the laws?

You are stretching this pretty far here.
 
humbolt said:
Why Mason, them there toddlers are the vanguard of the coming skin head race riots. They got pictures of Hitler and everything.
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I bet they are. At least she didn't say white toddlers but we know what she meant.
 
VanceMack said:
She also completely avoided the question about her dream of an open border, instead shrieking about Wikileaks and Putin. Luckily for her, Trump is not very good at the whole debate thing and let her get away with it.
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Hillary's side is trying their hardest to spin away from the content and say what is important was that they were hacked in the first place.

She even tried it on the debate stage.

It is a pathetic move, but I don't think we can expect more from her.
 
Mason66 said:
Each country has it's own electric grid.

Why would the US want to connect their grid to another country?
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Because sometimes it's less expensive or more efficient to purchase energy rather than produce it yourself. Conversely, there are also opportunities to sell energy.
 
Mason66 said:
Hillary's side is trying their hardest to spin away from the content and say what is important was that they were hacked in the first place.

She even tried it on the debate stage.

It is a pathetic move, but I don't think we can expect more from her.
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Thats the only part of the debate I saw and thats pretty much what I saw. Pay no attention to the corruption within the DNC and the Clinton campaign...whats really important is the leaks. If Trump was smart he would have said, "look...I dont know what you are pissed about. All Wikileaks did was reveal the information you were under subpoena to provide. Oh...wait...THATS why you are so upset...isnt it?"
 
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