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Monday night ratings down, again

What is there to debate about the OP, exactly?

I dunno. I'm a big football fan. I just watch the football game, and the rest I let blow right on by. Generally speaking, teams are not ready to play professional football at the start of the season these days. We have to endure about a month of teams playing subpar games until they get their act together. The collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the players has assured this. If the ratings are down, it's largely due to the quality of play the league mandated contractually.
 
Did you read the OP by chance? Is your first language English?

Seems fairly simple to me. Do you agree that people are getting turned off and more and more are turning off the games due to celebrity players, commentators, etc... shoving their political belief systems on the fans that do not come to watch the game for such political statements? I am sure there could be more, but that seems a simple thing to start with.

So, did you just not understand or is it that this premise is not debatable to your mind, you think its the unequivocal truth?

Did YOU read the OP?

What was stated is this:

The one reason people are not watching is because the National Anthem protests.

Capping things off was to lay all the blame on "leftists".

That's pretty much the whole OP in a few short words.
 
Once upon a time, I used to be a huge football fan and i would watch nearly everything on TV. Over the years I shifted to basketball and then to baseball as I got older. I still watch the Lions on tv and perhaps a big game each week - but I have cooled noticeably to the game. For me the main reason is the criminal and thug mentality that seems evident in far too many players. Ray Lewis seemed the poster child for this.

Its a game of violence and aggression and even brutality and I guess it stands to reason that people who are good at that would excel at certain aspects of it.

27 active NFL players who have been arrested multiple times - AOL Sports

The 15 Worst Crimes Committed by NFL Players - Arrest Records.com

NFL Arrest-Database - NFL Football - USA TODAY

But I fault the league with allowing criminals to play and it just took the allure off for me a bit.

The protest mean little to me either way as I do not get public policy information from athletes anyways.
 
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I lean towards it being the fault of rugby and soccer. People are probably finally seeing that sports don't have to be 3 hours long with half of it being commercials.


Seriously, I doubt it's the protests. Cord cutting seems possible, lack of interest, etc.
 
Seriously, I doubt it's the protests. Cord cutting seems possible, lack of interest, etc.

I believe it's more the quality of the game itself.

Nascar was once the fastest rising sport in America. Where is it now?

Times change. People change. Sports change.

How often are Monday Night Football games just NOT that friggin interesting to watch?
Especially when it's not your favorite team playing.

Maybe the low ratings are more a reflection of who's playing, and the overall sport in general, and not so much who's not standing at attention during the anthem?
 
Did you read the OP by chance? Is your first language English?

Seems fairly simple to me. Do you agree that people are getting turned off and more and more are turning off the games due to celebrity players, commentators, etc... shoving their political belief systems on the fans that do not come to watch the game for such political statements? I am sure there could be more, but that seems a simple thing to start with.

So, did you just not understand or is it that this premise is not debatable to your mind, you think its the unequivocal truth?

I think it's disingenuous. OP isn't mad that the NFL or its players make political statements, he's mad that they make political statements he disagrees with.

He never gave a **** when they were doing "tributes" to our military servicepeople, or breast cancer awareness ribbons.
 
Voluntary mental retardation is simply insufferable.


Officially dismissed. Go off and play with all the other lost souls who are not here to debate either.

Maybe a doctor could assist with that for you.

Best of luck!
 
He never gave a **** when they were doing "tributes" to our military servicepeople, or breast cancer awareness ribbons.

Are those two examples "politically motivated"?


I don't think they are.
 
Did YOU read the OP?

What was stated is this:



The one reason people are not watching is because the National Anthem protests.

Capping things off was to lay all the blame on "leftists".

That's pretty much the whole OP in a few short words.
Couple of things.

1.Why come to a thread that you do not care for and because it does not agree with your view of reality, slam it in a totally imbecilic manner? I mean, unless one is actively trying to advertise their stupidity.
2. If you feel an OP is silly, either move on or expose it's alleged silliness point by point... you are aware this is a debate site, am I correct? Otherwise one is simply doing their best to derail the thread and I would think moderators should be alerted to that misstep.
3.I read the OP and it states clearly the word AGAIN. Again would presuppose ratings have slumped before. Even if so, see #2 above.
4.I used to watch NFL football. I no longer do, for not one reason but a contributing factor is when they censored Hank Williams, Jrs opening song just because he expressed his political beliefs but nowhere near the song.
5.The NCAA is not hold championship styled games in NC due to a political stance. I LOVE the Final Four, but I will not again watch a NCAA game because of it. Its a form of boycott you see.
6. BLM and anti flag anti patriotic displays are not from the right, this is a spin off left generated... simply undeniable.


But in typical left elitist fashion, you got leftist thread nazis that don't want to be reminded that they inspire this trash.

We on a similar page now?
 
Couple of things.

1.Why come to a thread that you do not care for and because it does not agree with your view of reality, slam it in a totally imbecilic manner? I mean, unless one is actively trying to advertise their stupidity.
2. If you feel an OP is silly, either move on or expose it's alleged silliness point by point... you are aware this is a debate site, am I correct? Otherwise one is simply doing their best to derail the thread and I would think moderators should be alerted to that misstep.
3.I read the OP and it states clearly the word AGAIN. Again would presuppose ratings have slumped before. Even if so, see #2 above.
4.I used to watch NFL football. I no longer do, for not one reason but a contributing factor is when they censored Hank Williams, Jrs opening song just because he expressed his political beliefs but nowhere near the song.
5.The NCAA is not hold championship styled games in NC due to a political stance. I LOVE the Final Four, but I will not again watch a NCAA game because of it. Its a form of boycott you see.
6. BLM and anti flag anti patriotic displays are not from the right, this is a spin off left generated... simply undeniable.


But in typical left elitist fashion, you got leftist thread nazis that don't want to be reminded that they inspire this trash.

We on a similar page now?

Oi...:roll:

I don't know where you get that crap from, so I"ll just leave your own quote here as my final response to you.
Read it, and digest it completely:

Voluntary mental retardation is simply insufferable.


Officially dismissed.
 
I think it's disingenuous. OP isn't mad that the NFL or its players make political statements, he's mad that they make political statements he disagrees with.

He never gave a **** when they were doing "tributes" to our military servicepeople, or breast cancer awareness ribbons.
So, its a debate site, prove it, all of what you feel but do not know. At the same time I think its rather disingenuous of you to state that categorically that you can mind read the author of the OP... didn't stop you from posting.
 
I noted with interest that the kickoff to the new TV season was a ratings disaster, down double digits from last year, which argues that something is going on that is bigger than the substantial problems with Football.

But the smaller headline, and the one everyone should be paying much more attention to, is the big ratings declines suffered by three of the Big Four networks during this first week of the new season, setting a troubling tone for a season where viewership patterns will be under more scrutiny than ever.

CBS was the only network to remain even to last year’s premiere week, thanks in part of football. This fall, as last, CBS gained a competitive benefit from the NFL Network’s “Thursday Night Football” ratings, which are rolled into its own.

Collectively, the Big Four were off 11 percent, from an 8.4 to a 7.5 rating.
Premiere week: NBC and CBS tie but overall ratings sink
 
Oi...:roll:

I don't know where you get that crap from, so I"ll just leave your own quote here as my final response to you.
Read it, and digest it completely:
Its all in English, its all in response to your lame post which it seems you put very little effort... but I will reprise the one question which seems to simply elude so many of you here... you do know this IS a debate site, correct? Why is it you folks come here if not to debate?

Showing off your inabilities seems rather a waste of both our time.

And thank you for re-posting my statement of intent. Question is, why did you not honor my blanket dismissal? That question is rhetorical, as I don't want nor need to hear from you again, you neither can nor desire to debate.

Dismissed.
 
You know, I don't watch football any longer as well, so I could not really tell you. I stopped when they started doing this crap.

But this is a small expression of how political its become http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/s...d-permanently-from-monday-night-football.html

So a great opening song is "exorcized" because someone, Hank Williams, Jr exercised his first amendment right and spoke his mind outside the game? Song had nothing to do with anything said, but a political stand was taken by the network.

I think plenty of folks are not as in the dark about what is going on around them as you seem to think, and a lot are far more patriotic and appreciative of what the country stands for as well, both literally and figuratively.

ESPN was just recognizing a bunch of NFL fans wouldn't like the opening sung by a partisan ignoramus who compared Obama to Hitler, called Obama and Biden the enemy, etc. It was no different than country music stations boycotting the Dixie Chicks because a lot of their listeners didn't want to hear songs sung by those women, even though their comments had nothing to do with their music. Did you turn off country music at that time because the stations had become too 'political' by boycotting artists with unpopular political views? I'm guessing no....
 
ESPN was just recognizing a bunch of NFL fans wouldn't like the opening sung by a partisan ignoramus who compared Obama to Hitler, called Obama and Biden the enemy, etc. It was no different than country music stations boycotting the Dixie Chicks because a lot of their listeners didn't want to hear songs sung by those women, even though their comments had nothing to do with their music. Did you turn off country music at that time because the stations had become too 'political' by boycotting artists with unpopular political views? I'm guessing no....

We did turn off the Dixie Chicks. With the NFL it is so many political things that come to mind when we turn on some of us, not just patriotism and the complaints of the blacks, but also the continuing battle between labor and management which includes delfategate, domestic violence, spanking, sexual assault, the funding of stadiums, concussions ("can we even morally watch this sport anymore?"), Sports TV Personalities getting thrown off the air or even off the job for saying something politically "wrong"..... maybe we have reached critical mass, too much political crap ruining our enjoyment of the game, so we go do something else.
 
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We did turn off the Dixie Chicks.

Right, and that was a problem or not that stations quit playing their music for 'political' reasons?

With the NFL it is so many political things that come to mind when we turn on some of us, not just patriotism and the complaints of the blacks, but also the continuing battle between labor and management which includes delfategate, domestic violence, spanking, sexual assault, the funding of stadiums, concussions ("can we even morally watch this sport anymore?"), Sports TV Personalities getting thrown off the air or even off the job for saying something politically "wrong"..... maybe we have reached critical mass, too much political crap ruining our enjoyment of the game, so we go do something else.

I guess in a way I agree with a lot of what you said. It's just entertainment and there ARE lots of options. As an aside, I'm pretty sure the NFL would rather not deal with these protests.

The point was just that if you agree with celebrities getting 'thrown off the air' for saying things you don't like, then it's a bit much to whine when they're thrown off for saying things you happen to agree with.

Doesn't really matter to me - I watch maybe an hour of pro football per week, and a bit more college football, and I'm frankly a hypocrite for watching that much because there is a lot about both sports that are IMO functionally corrupt, but I still enjoy games on occasion.... Oh well.
 
Right, and that was a problem or not that stations quit playing their music for 'political' reasons?



I guess in a way I agree with a lot of what you said. It's just entertainment and there ARE lots of options. As an aside, I'm pretty sure the NFL would rather not deal with these protests.

The point was just that if you agree with celebrities getting 'thrown off the air' for saying things you don't like, then it's a bit much to whine when they're thrown off for saying things you happen to agree with.

Doesn't really matter to me - I watch maybe an hour of pro football per week, and a bit more college football, and I'm frankly a hypocrite for watching that much because there is a lot about both sports that are IMO functionally corrupt, but I still enjoy games on occasion.... Oh well.

One would hope that the league high muckity-mucks know better but they have so many problems with labor because of their high handed stern daddy act over the last view years, and they have a bruising battle coming up getting the next labor agreement given that and the fact that the money they were hoping to have to pass around likely is not going to be coming, so it looks like for the forseeable future nothing will be done about this problem. The NFL has been mismanaged at at some point soon the owners are going to have to sit down together and figure something out, because while they did stand behind the Commish up till now it is hard to argue that he is the right man for the job now. I think they need to fire him and get a woman.
 
ESPN was just recognizing a bunch of NFL fans wouldn't like the opening sung by a partisan ignoramus who compared Obama to Hitler, called Obama and Biden the enemy, etc. It was no different than country music stations boycotting the Dixie Chicks because a lot of their listeners didn't want to hear songs sung by those women, even though their comments had nothing to do with their music. Did you turn off country music at that time because the stations had become too 'political' by boycotting artists with unpopular political views? I'm guessing no....
Well, many of their fans probably felt similar regarding Obama, but many would probably never even know... it is at best tangential with no forced viewpoint or televised disrespect show... but not the case with the open defiance of the SF quarterback.

So, to be equal in treatment they should not televise any game he is in? What would be the fair way of expressing balance, an unbiased approach to both HW, Jr and whatever the jerk's name is that took a knee instead of showing respect to all those that have risked and those who have laid down their lives for the country that has given him so much?

I can see individuals and individual stations making those kinds of decisions, not an entire nationwide Network making those decisions for us, especially coming down on one side or the other.

I expect you will somehow see what the SF QB did and ESPN's not taking a stand on that issue thus condoning that kind of behavior as ok somehow.

PS I rarely listen to country music, so my turning it off has little impact. I also do no longer watch NFL, so again, I have no impact. I speak only to the principles of the matter.
 
Well, many of their fans probably felt similar regarding Obama, but many would probably never even know... it is at best tangential with no forced viewpoint or televised disrespect show... but not the case with the open defiance of the SF quarterback.

The NFL doesn't want or need their singers introducing controversy to their broadcasts and like it or not, probably half their audience thought Hank Jr. sounded like an ignorant doofus, and lots of them complained. Same thing in reverse for the Dixie Chicks and I liked them but didn't blame stations for taking them off their air - they didn't need that crap when the goal is getting listeners and selling ads, same thing for the NFL.

So, to be equal in treatment they should not televise any game he is in? What would be the fair way of expressing balance, an unbiased approach to both HW, Jr and whatever the jerk's name is that took a knee instead of showing respect to all those that have risked and those who have laid down their lives for the country that has given him so much?

I'm not aware that the NFL has the contractual right to either fire the player for expressing political views or to decide to not broadcast his team's games. Can you tell me how they'd accomplish this without violating a slew of contracts that would get them sued before they finished signing the directives?

Taking Hank Jr. off the air was on the other hand was something that seems CLEARLY within their prerogative. Who knows what their financial arrangement was with Hank, but I doubt the contract required the NFL to use his song every week.....

I can see individuals and individual stations making those kinds of decisions, not an entire nationwide Network making those decisions for us, especially coming down on one side or the other.

You've lost me here.

I expect you will somehow see what the SF QB did and ESPN's not taking a stand on that issue thus condoning that kind of behavior as ok somehow.

No, what I see is I can't imagine ESPN has the legal right to 'take a stand' on broadcasting that player's team's games. They do have the legal right to decide who sings their intro, clearly, and who broadcasts from the booth on game days or on Sports Center or whatever, but not what the players they televise do, especially when what those players are doing is clearly and obviously legal. If any punishment will come from anywhere it will be from the team.

PS I rarely listen to country music, so my turning it off has little impact. I also do no longer watch NFL, so again, I have no impact. I speak only to the principles of the matter.

The point was the principle of the thing, not whether it actually affected your listening habits, but you knew that.
 
The NFL doesn't want or need their singers introducing controversy to their broadcasts and like it or not, probably half their audience thought Hank Jr. sounded like an ignorant doofus, and lots of them complained. Same thing in reverse for the Dixie Chicks and I liked them but didn't blame stations for taking them off their air - they didn't need that crap when the goal is getting listeners and selling ads, same thing for the NFL.
The NFL I would assume has little to nothing to do with what song a network plays at the beginning of a broadcast. Until the song suddenly disappeared after being a tradition, if not then close to it, most probably had no idea what HW, Jr said. The ones that did care are the doofuses and HW, Jr had a legal right just as much as players do... but at least he didn't do it during game time.

You don't think people, patriotic folks like the kind of folks that watch a lot of NFL, complained about the jerk QB protesting in this manner?

And if you understand stations, individual Music stations, making decisions about the Dixie Chicks, how could you not understand it when I used it down below and you are suddenly lost? You are aware that there are independent TV stations all across the US, right?


I'm not aware that the NFL has the contractual right to either fire the player for expressing political views or to decide to not broadcast his team's games. Can you tell me how they'd accomplish this without violating a slew of contracts that would get them sued before they finished signing the directives?
Again, it would be ESPN broadcasting the game, not the NFL, and if the network can take the financial hit of the politically correct dropping of the HW,J song, they can probably enforce political correctness in the other direction as well. And if they dont, maybe they should have that in their broadcast contracts in the future. I know I will never watch another NFL game as long as they are taking sides, ostensibly against my country.

There are a lot of patriotic Mom, baseball, apple pie folk out here and football has been right up there as well.

Taking Hank Jr. off the air was on the other hand was something that seems CLEARLY within their prerogative. Who knows what their financial arrangement was with Hank, but I doubt the contract required the NFL to use his song every week.....
ESPN....ESPN...



You've lost me here.
See above.



No, what I see is I can't imagine ESPN has the legal right to 'take a stand' on broadcasting that player's team's games. They do have the legal right to decide who sings their intro, clearly, and who broadcasts from the booth on game days or on Sports Center or whatever, but not what the players they televise do, especially when what those players are doing is clearly and obviously legal. If any punishment will come from anywhere it will be from the team.
If they don't have the right to determine which games they broadcast, and NFL responsibilities to more closely manage their players decorum at work [ I was a teacher and we certainly were not allowed to display such nonsense ] they most certainly should in the future.

If there is going to be balance and fairness, then the SF QB should be off the field during ESPN broadcasts. At minimum not be paid during his team's ESPN televised games perhaps. What is good for the singer performer is good for the player performer.



The point was the principle of the thing, not whether it actually affected your listening habits, but you knew that.
Funny, you seem to understand principle when you want to, but seem to ignore it when you do not. Yes, the legalese may get in the way, but the principles should stick no matter what.

Secondly, you specifically were calling me out on tuning in or out of the Dixie Chicks episode... I simply explained my actual situation. But you knew that.
 
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The NFL I would assume has little to nothing to do with what song a network plays at the beginning of a broadcast. Until the song suddenly disappeared after being a tradition, if not then close to it, most probably had no idea what HW, Jr said. The ones that did care are the doofuses and HW, Jr had a legal right just as much as players do... but at least he didn't do it during game time.

OK, substitute whoever was doing the broadcasts - same point. And it doesn't matter what you think but what the people with big money on the line thought about it and they wanted Hank Jr. gone and that was within their power to do, and they did.

You don't think people, patriotic folks like the kind of folks that watch a lot of NFL, complained about the jerk QB protesting in this manner?

Sure, but AFAIK, only the team has any power to do anything about it.
And if you understand stations, individual Music stations, making decisions about the Dixie Chicks, how could you not understand it when I used it down below and you are suddenly lost? You are aware that there are independent TV stations all across the US, right?

I just didn't understand your point, but I don't believe individual stations actually have ANY discretion about the games they're broadcasting. And what discretion they do have cannot be, "We'd rather air this game, not this one, cause we don't like that player."

Again, it would be ESPN broadcasting the game, not the NFL, and if the network can take the financial hit of the politically correct dropping of the HW,J song, they can probably enforce political correctness in the other direction as well. And if they dont, maybe they should have that in their broadcast contracts in the future. I know I will never watch another NFL game as long as they are taking sides, ostensibly against my country.

Goodness, those are COMPLETELY different situations. ESPN or whoever can control who works for ESPN, or who sings their intro - those are THEIR EMPLOYEES. They don't have the power (or at least I can't imagine they do) to dictate behavior by players on the team they have signed $billion contracts to broadcast, or to just say, "Nah, we don't like So and So Player for whatever reason, not gonna broadcast his team!"

If they don't have the right to determine which games they broadcast, and NFL responsibilities to more closely manage their players decorum at work [ I was a teacher and we certainly were not allowed to display such nonsense ] they most certainly should in the future.

If there is going to be balance and fairness, then the SF QB should be off the field during ESPN broadcasts. At minimum not be paid during his team's ESPN televised games perhaps. What is good for the singer performer is good for the player performer.

Except the singer worked for ESPN or whoever, and the player doesn't. It's a key distinction - the broadcaster has firing authority over THEIR employees, but not someone ELSE'S employees. This is obvious. If you want to say the NFL should tighten up its player contracts in the next union deal to give them firing authority over players who don't stand properly during the national anthem, fine. Let them try.

Funny, you seem to understand principle when you want to, but seem to ignore it when you do not. Yes, the legalese may get in the way, but the principles should stick no matter what.

Secondly, you specifically were calling me out on tuning in or out of the Dixie Chicks episode... I simply explained my actual situation. But you knew that.

Well did you disagree with stations taking the Dixie Chicks off the air?

And I get the principle, but you're dealing with a $billion industry and deciding to keep Team Z off the airwaves just because the broadcaster doesn't like what a player on that team is doing is just not going to fly. Here's the wiki entry on broadcast rights for the NFL. It's incredibly detailed and there's no way in hell the broadcasters can just decide, "Nope, we'd rather air the Patriots game this week!"
 
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