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Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vote at vacant Florida home

Right, but of course it's racist to ask for picture ID. Really, you and your ilk don't have a leg to stand on with regard to voter fraud. You favor it. You should be cheering this. IF it's even true, which is a BIG if.

Well, republicans in NC who passed a slew of new voting regulations must REALLY favor "voter fraud" since they didn't touch absentee ballots where nearly ALL the "voter fraud" actually happens.
 
It proves nothing. Are you suggesting courts never make bad decisions? Anyone who actually believes requiring ID to vote is racist, is a blithering idiot, and likely a racist POS.

It's not about requiring "ID" or not, but what kinds of ID are acceptable. The problems have all been when idiot republicans narrowed the list too much, made no plans to allow the hundreds of thousands of previously registered and active voters to comply with the new law, ignored all the recommendations to deal with the predictable problems, and rushed through obviously partisan BS laws with no purpose they can back up with evidence except to drive down traditional democratic votes.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

How many legitimate votes are you willing to stop for each fraudulent vote stopped?

Yeah, that's the actual issue for me. In most states, hundreds of thousands, registered, active voters, often for decades, are unable to vote in the next election unless they obtain the new ID, which some number will not or cannot do. If 1% can't (e.g. don't have the source docs, can't get them, can't afford them, etc.), that's 2,000 voters if 200k need new ids. And it's to stop literally a handful or less of in person fraud at the polls.

And I've never seen anyone make a rational case for that.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Wrong, but good try. What happens exceedingly rarely (as in less than a handful in most states per year are prosecuted) is impersonation fraud at the polls, which is the type of fraud targeted by the slew of new photo ID laws.

That is true.... the type of voter fraud that is worrisome is not one person voting multiple times, but groups of people being denied the vote, either through repressive voter qualifications (including restrictive photo ID's) or simply making voting difficult. Games played to make voting difficult include restricting mail ballots OR not having enough voting machines available on election day such that a voter waits for hours and hours to exercise their right to vote.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Well, that's better then. He's not only engaging in voter fraud, he's committing tax fraud! Trump only hires the best people!

Just for the record, where you register to vote has literally nothing to do with where your "tax home" is. People might claim it, but if caught it's straight up tax fraud, and depending on what deductions they claim on the federal return (e.g. travel expense while away from "home") perhaps both federal and state tax fraud, and if the stakes are big enough a possible criminal offense with jail time attached.

I'm quite familiar with how it works. Registering to vote is the frosting on the cake. Nobody's checking it. It's done with second homes all the time. One can't just SAY they live there. They have to spend a lot of time there. But it's done. And it works. People even take homeowners exemptions on their real estate taxes in both places. Get their cars registered in Florida, for example. The whole nine yards. It's pathetic, really.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

How many legitimate votes are you willing to stop for each fraudulent vote stopped?

No. Don't hand that out. How many fraudulent votes are you willing to have cast so people don't have to show a picture I.D.? Ridiculous to think it's a burden. You can't do ANYTHING of importance without showing ID except the most important right we exercise as a free republic.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

"Maybe Joe Moschella thought he was playing it safe. The 59-year-old retired transit employee had mailed his absentee ballot too late, he thought, so on Election Day 2000, he trotted down to the polls and voted in person. The only problem was that his polling place is in Staten Island, where he lives, while the absentee ballot went to Florida, where he winters."
Cracking down on people who vote twice.

That's from an article in Slate in 2004 about people registering to vote in two states. I suspect a lot of people don't know they have to remove their names from the voter rolls when they move. I didn't. But, I wasn't so friggin' stupid I would vote in two states. I don't think Joe was either. I don't even think Joe thought this up all by himself. But, I suppose it could have been an honest mistake.

"So, his name appeared in the paper's Aug. 21 story revealing that in the 2000 election between 400 and 1,000 of these double-registrants voted in both states." Wow, an honest mistake that happened between 400 and 1,000 times. Amazing that, what?

It is the "cute" kind of stunt the party that says, "Vote early and vote often," and giggles would find amusing and productive. No wonder the Democrat Party is spending out money suing states that want honest voting.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

No. Don't hand that out. How many fraudulent votes are you willing to have cast so people don't have to show a picture I.D.? Ridiculous to think it's a burden. You can't do ANYTHING of importance without showing ID except the most important right we exercise as a free republic.

Well, the people required to get new IDs to vote spend their entire lives without those newly required IDs, so that's just flat out false, and not really debatable.

And, again, it's not whether we should show some form of "ID" but that the new laws require 100s of thousands of individuals in each of those states, millions across the country, to obtain forms of ID they otherwise simply do not need in their daily lives.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

"Maybe Joe Moschella thought he was playing it safe. The 59-year-old retired transit employee had mailed his absentee ballot too late, he thought, so on Election Day 2000, he trotted down to the polls and voted in person. The only problem was that his polling place is in Staten Island, where he lives, while the absentee ballot went to Florida, where he winters."
Cracking down on people who vote twice.

That's from an article in Slate in 2004 about people registering to vote in two states. I suspect a lot of people don't know they have to remove their names from the voter rolls when they move. I didn't. But, I wasn't so friggin' stupid I would vote in two states. I don't think Joe was either. I don't even think Joe thought this up all by himself. But, I suppose it could have been an honest mistake.

"So, his name appeared in the paper's Aug. 21 story revealing that in the 2000 election between 400 and 1,000 of these double-registrants voted in both states." Wow, an honest mistake that happened between 400 and 1,000 times. Amazing that, what?

It is the "cute" kind of stunt the party that says, "Vote early and vote often," and giggles would find amusing and productive. No wonder the Democrat [sic] Party is spending out money suing states that want honest voting.

The hilarious thing is the new GOP voting law changes do absolutely NOTHING to address that kind of fraud, so nice job proving the point democrats keep making, which is the photo ID rules don't address an actual source of significant fraud, and almost always ignore the source of almost all known "voter" fraud which is......absentee voting!

And if you have any evidence any party or candidate in any way encouraged that kind of fraud, please cite it. I'm betting, for example, most retirees with two homes don't vote for democrats but for the GOP, so if it's being encouraged it's most likely the GOP...
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

The hilarious thing is the new GOP voting law changes do absolutely NOTHING to address that kind of fraud, so nice job proving the point democrats keep making, which is the photo ID rules don't address an actual source of significant fraud, and almost always ignore the source of almost all known "voter" fraud which is......absentee voting!

And if you have any evidence any party or candidate in any way encouraged that kind of fraud, please cite it. I'm betting, for example, most retirees with two homes don't vote for democrats but for the GOP, so if it's being encouraged it's most likely the GOP...

Thanks for following the Democrat Party meme which includes no suggestions for eliminating fraud but maximizes efforts to stop any and all reform. I understand you're supposed to say the voters from New York are probably Republicans voting twice. At least that shows someone has a sense of humor.

Oh, and didn't you forget that the official Democrat propaganda is that there is no voter fraud.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

I'm quite familiar with how it works. Registering to vote is the frosting on the cake. Nobody's checking it. It's done with second homes all the time. One can't just SAY they live there. They have to spend a lot of time there. But it's done. And it works. People even take homeowners exemptions on their real estate taxes in both places. Get their cars registered in Florida, for example. The whole nine yards. It's pathetic, really.

Yes, tax fraud usually "works" just because of the number of returns filed versus in person audits. I have to deal with people every year who tell me their friend or neighbor takes this fraudulent deduction every year, or has cash income they don't declare, and has never been audited so why the hell not can't they engage in the same thing (tax fraud), and have me sign off on it.... :roll:
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Thanks for following the Democrat Party meme which includes no suggestions for eliminating fraud but maximizes efforts to stop any and all reform

I'm not aware of such a Democrat [sic] Party meme, and the problem is that the kind of reform democrats and other rational people have a problem with [and that have been passed in so many red states] are reforms that do nothing to prevent actual fraud, such as what you describe, which is a potentially significant problem, but do create burdens for 100s of thousands of registered voters, almost all of them poor and urban, for no identifiable benefit.

Edit to say that for the record, Canada's system (as I understand it) would be something worth copying - registration is automatic, follows you from place to place when you change your address with the post office, and results in very high registration and I'm sure fewer errors, and probably WOULD address the kind of fraud you mentioned because it's a centralized system that I assume has checks against being registered at multiple addresses. So it's not that I'm against reform, but instead opposed to stupid reform that serves no purpose but to drive down votes of the poor and urban.

I understand you're supposed to say the voters from New York are probably Republicans voting twice. At least that shows someone has a sense of humor.

I'm pretty sure the target demo for democrats is not retirees with two houses, so the odds are most such folks simply are republicans. But if you have evidence any party or candidate is pushing that kind of fraud, I'd love to hear it. Certainly the GOP reforms do NOTHING to address it, so there's that....

Oh, and didn't you forget that the official Democrat propaganda is that there is no voter fraud.

That's actually false, but nice try! I've been in a couple dozen of these debates here, and I don't think you can find any democrat in these debates asserting that there is no "voter fraud."
 
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Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Did Bannon illegally vote according to the article? No!
Just a bunch of very wild allegations. More mudslinging.
Did you notice they weaved in a 20+ year old story about domestic
violence charge that was dropped. They want the guy smeared.

From the article”

“But it is not clear that”

“Details of the apparent breach of election law”

“Who requested anonymity for fear of repercussions”

"Guidelines from the Florida department of state say that Florida courts and state authorities have defined legal residency as the place “where a person mentally intends to make his or her permanent residence”.

Garbage like this masquerades as journalism today.

One last thing if voter ID laws were in place across the country issues like this would not be issues.
But who does not want voter ID laws?
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

I'm not aware of such a Democrat [sic] Party meme, and the problem is that the kind of reform democrats and other rational people have a problem with [and that have been passed in so many red states] are reforms that do nothing to prevent actual fraud, such as what you describe, which is a potentially significant problem, but do create burdens for 100s of thousands of registered voters, almost all of them poor and urban, for no identifiable benefit.

Edit to say that for the record, Canada's system (as I understand it) would be something worth copying - registration is automatic, follows you from place to place when you change your address with the post office, and results in very high registration and I'm sure fewer errors, and probably WOULD address the kind of fraud you mentioned because it's a centralized system that I assume has checks against being registered at multiple addresses. So it's not that I'm against reform, but instead opposed to stupid reform that serves no purpose but to drive down votes of the poor and urban.



I'm pretty sure the target demo for democrats is not retirees with two houses, so the odds are most such folks simply are republicans. But if you have evidence any party or candidate is pushing that kind of fraud, I'd love to hear it. Certainly the GOP reforms do NOTHING to address it, so there's that....



That's actually false, but nice try! I've been in a couple dozen of these debates here, and I don't think you can find any democrat in these debates asserting that there is no "voter fraud."

Nice try but flailing is pitiful. Can you give me an example of a reform for election integrity the Democrat Party initiated or supported? And, I'm aware that the Democrat Party would rather be called the Democratic Party but they should really consider that that means. A party that support the Card Check Bill and voter fraud certain isn't democratic.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

One last thing if voter ID laws were in place across the country issues like this would not be issues.
But who does not want voter ID laws?

That's not true. Bannon certainly has the necessary ID to vote - I'm betting a DL and a passport, and a passport has no address on it, so photo ID laws wouldn't stop this kind of voter fraud, which is almost always done through absentee ballots anyway.

If you disagree, please explain how the NC law (to pick the law most recently debated on DP and which was recently struck down) would prevent this type of fraud. The NC legislature explicitly ignored absentee ballots. If NC doesn't work, pick any state that recently tightened up its "voter ID laws" and show how the new rules would prevent this kind of fraud. Good luck!
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Well, the people required to get new IDs to vote spend their entire lives without those newly required IDs, so that's just flat out false, and not really debatable.

And, again, it's not whether we should show some form of "ID" but that the new laws require 100s of thousands of individuals in each of those states, millions across the country, to obtain forms of ID they otherwise simply do not need in their daily lives.

You assume I care. I don't.

Who are these people who've gone their whole lives without IDs? And are citizens? They can never have worked. You need an ID for that. You can never have gone to the doctor or hospital. You need an ID for that. You can never have been in the service. Never driven. Never cashed a check. Never collected welfare. Never collected disability. Never opens a bank account.

Who are these people. And how many are there? Four?
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

You assume I care. I don't.

Who are these people who've gone their whole lives without IDs? And are citizens? They can never have worked. You need an ID for that. You can never have gone to the doctor or hospital. You need an ID for that. You can never have been in the service. Never driven. Never cashed a check. Never collected welfare. Never collected disability. Never opens a bank account.

Who are these people. And how many are there? Four?

Your post is stunningly uniformed. Utterly jaw droopingly so. You are so self centered that you are incapable of understanding that others lead an entirely different existence than you do. Get out and do some volunteer work with the poor and homeless in your community and then report back.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Your post is stunningly uniformed. Utterly jaw droopingly so. You are so self centered that you are incapable of understanding that others lead an entirely different existence than you do. Get out and do some volunteer work with the poor and homeless in your community and then report back.

Please to tell me how stunningly uniformed (???) I am. Jaw dropping though it is.

People who cannot identify themselves should not be voting. Poor, homeless, whatever.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Nice try but flailing is pitiful. Can you give me an example of a reform for election integrity the Democrat Party initiated or supported?

I'm not going to speak for the party, but I edited my post to suggest one set of reforms I'd support. I'd also support anything that would actually address the kind of fraud you mentioned. It wouldn't be photo ID which is useless for that, but perhaps a centralized registration system that if you registered in a new location would automatically take you off the rolls where you were previously registered. Using post office change of addresses to automatically update registrations might work well. Essentially if you tell me of a reform that actually accomplishes a worthwhile goal to insure election integrity, I'll support it.

I'm not even opposed to "voter ID" at the polls. I've had to show "ID" for as long as I can remember, and there was a long list of acceptable ID, and it worked fine. And with a decades long history of working fine, with almost no (literally, less than a handful) known cases of impersonation fraud over the past DECADE, the Tennessee legislature changed the rules to require only a few kinds of photo ID. And of course you need no "ID" at all to vote absentee, which is where almost all the fraud happens, but which is more often done by GOPers than democrats. Which would be odd if stopping voter fraud was the goal, which it isn't, but makes total sense if the goal is to make it tougher for urban poor to vote but has nothing to do with "voter fraud."

And for actual election integrity, seems obvious to me if some Democratic (or Republican) party political machine wants to steal an election, they won't round up thousands of illegal voters, but will simply manipulate the count which requires just a few corrupt people. So for starters, I'd blow up every electronic voting machine and replace it with paper ballots, marked by hand, and perhaps read by machines. I vote on an electronic machine and it always seems like a suggestion to me - how the hell do I know when I select my candidate that it's being counted for that candidate? I don't! And if just a handful of officials in my county want to throw the election, it's been proved time after time hacking the machines doesn't require more skill than the average teenage hacker.

And, I'm aware that the Democrat Party would rather be called the Democratic Party but they should really consider that that means. A party that support the Card Check Bill and voter fraud certain isn't democratic.

Well, it just IS the "Democratic Party" and has been for almost 200 years now. And it's childish to intentionally use the wrong name - sort of like if instead of referring to you as Patrickt, I decided to use Dicklict.... hardee har har.... which would be pretty funny and original, until a kid reached HS age....
 
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Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Your post is stunningly uniformed. Utterly jaw droopingly so. You are so self centered that you are incapable of understanding that others lead an entirely different existence than you do. Get out and do some volunteer work with the poor and homeless in your community and then report back.

I have. ID is never asked for, AFAIK. Why would you? Some chump in a Tesla pulls in for lunch and you want to challenge his right to a free meal? Won't happen. We'll just guilt him into a donation!

And speaking of ID, the homeless and the poor probaby have a lot more contact with police than you do and they have to have some ID. There is no such thing as "anonymous" during a police stop. The closest thing to that is California officers taking "best id" to avoid leaving patrol by taking illegal aliens in mostly for driving without a license.

So next time you get a chance, talk to one of them - they are survivors. Ask them "Do you need to carry ID?"
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

You assume I care. I don't.

Who are these people who've gone their whole lives without IDs? And are citizens? They can never have worked. You need an ID for that. You can never have gone to the doctor or hospital. You need an ID for that. You can never have been in the service. Never driven. Never cashed a check. Never collected welfare. Never collected disability. Never opens a bank account.

Who are these people. And how many are there? Four?

I don't know what to tell you. There have been studies in several states about the number of REGISTERED VOTERS without one of the required forms of ID and in every case the numbers reach into the hundreds of thousands. In NC, it was about 218,000. In Texas, the court found that about 608,000 registered voters lacked the required ID to vote. Both numbers are significantly higher than four..... :roll: And these numbers really are not in dispute except around the margins - maybe it's not 608k in Texas but only 575k.... They've been presented in court, subjected to cross examination, sustained at the lower level and on appeal.

So there is no debate whether or not 100s of thousands in those states live their lives without ID acceptable to vote in many states that have tightened rules to require only a few forms of photo ID. It's just a fact.

And if you do not care about acknowledging basic facts that form the basis of objections to the new photo ID rules, that's really a problem with your own analysis.
 
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Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

I have. ID is never asked for, AFAIK. Why would you? Some chump in a Tesla pulls in for lunch and you want to challenge his right to a free meal? Won't happen. We'll just guilt him into a donation!

And speaking of ID, the homeless and the poor probaby have a lot more contact with police than you do and they have to have some ID. There is no such thing as "anonymous" during a police stop. The closest thing to that is California officers taking "best id" to avoid leaving patrol by taking illegal aliens in mostly for driving without a license.

So next time you get a chance, talk to one of them - they are survivors. Ask them "Do you need to carry ID?"

Goodness, why is it always the same terrible arguments from right wingers defending photo ID laws. Yes, nearly everyone has some form of ID. The problem is the new rules intentionally omit from the list of approved ID the types of ID typically held by poor urban folks who do not drive a car. And that is a feature, not a bug, of the photo ID rules.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Goodness, why is it always the same terrible arguments from right wingers defending photo ID laws. Yes, nearly everyone has some form of ID. The problem is the new rules intentionally omit from the list of approved ID the types of ID typically held by poor urban folks who do not drive a car. And that is a feature, not a bug, of the photo ID rules.

Like what for example?

Do voters have a right to be treated equally? In other words is the burden on the state to see that "one vote, one time" is followed, rather than "vote early, vote often".
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

Like what for example?

SS card. Voter registration card. Student ID.

Do voters have a right to be treated equally? In other words is the burden on the state to see that "one vote, one time" is followed, rather than "vote early, vote often".

You'll have to ask a specific question about a specific policy. I have no idea how to answer that hypothetical general statement.
 
Re: Trump campaign cheif Steve Bannon is registered to vite at vacant Florida home

I don't know what to tell you. There have been studies in several states about the number of REGISTERED VOTERS without one of the required forms of ID and in every case the numbers reach into the hundreds of thousands. In NC, it was about 218,000. In Texas, the court found that about 608,000 registered voters lacked the required ID to vote. Both numbers are significantly higher than four..... :roll: And these numbers really are not in dispute except around the margins - maybe it's not 608k in Texas but only 575k.... They've been presented in court, subjected to cross examination, sustained at the lower level and on appeal.

So there is no debate whether or not 100s of thousands in those states live their lives without ID acceptable to vote in many states that have tightened rules to require only a few forms of photo ID. It's just a fact.

And if you do not care about acknowledging basic facts that form the basis of objections to the new photo ID rules, that's really a problem with your own analysis.

Here's the thing. I don't CARE how many people would be inconvenienced by requiring a photo ID to vote. Makes no never mind to me at all. United States citizens should have to show a photo ID in order to vote.

In my opinion. Nothing is going I change that.
 
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