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Net Neutrality ruling leading to data caps from service providers

It has nothing to with actually making anything better. Its nothing more than an assault on private businesses. I wonder how many of Obama's tech buddies will make billions off this.

More insidious than just that. Just think of this as ObamaCare and single payer for the Internet.
Once you displace the ISPs and CableCos, you essentially control the Internet the consumer has access to, so you can control what the people read, watch, . . . . .

Yeah, this is definitely something I'd much rather have had the government keep it's nose out of, on purpose.
 
More insidious than just that. Just think of this as ObamaCare and single payer for the Internet.
How is net neutrality like governmental mandated single payer insurance? I'm very interested.
 
It's always funny to see people who know nothing about net neutrality try to tell people why it's bad.

What's funnier, is when experts and proponents of bet neutrality can't tell us why it's so good.
 
It's always funny to see people who know nothing about net neutrality try to tell people why it's bad.

It's always funny to see people who know nothing about Net Neutrality try to tell people why it's good.
 
A site like DP will never be regulated to the "slow lane". Which doesn't even technically exist for sites like this. As SocialD mentioned Net Neutrality is mainly for streaming content and that's what the fight boils down to.

of course we would be relegated to the slow lane, as we lack the means to purchase preferential data delivery.

We don't use enough traffic. We barely post videos. The site is 90% text based. We are a fly on the wall compared to what other sites do. This is not bashing DP it's just the reality of our standing among internet giants who said this would affect everybody. HINT: They lied to get sympathy votes, but it was really a half-truth to prop up their own importance. "It will affect everyone." Meaning everyone who uses THEIR services.

it will affect everyone. it's not as much our current bandwidth as it is the massive bandwidth of those who can afford to buy preferential treatment. also, lack of neutrality will discourage potential competitors to the current media delivery services, as startups don't have the money to buy preferential treatment, either. competition is a good thing. removing the ability of others to compete is not.
 
What's funnier, is when experts and proponents of bet neutrality can't tell us why it's so good.

Actually the benefits are laid out clearly in every one of these threads. However, you've adopted a strategy of deliberately avoiding educating yourself in the belief that if you continue to not understand a topic, then you'll be able to hold an opinion on it. I know this because nearly two years ago you participated eagerly in this debate despite not knowing what net neutrality is, and nearly two years later you still know nothing about the topic.

An important question is, why do you always participate in a debate that you specifically make sure to know nothing about?
 
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of course we would be relegated to the slow lane, as we lack the means to purchase preferential data delivery.



it will affect everyone. it's not as much our current bandwidth as it is the massive bandwidth of those who can afford to buy preferential treatment. also, lack of neutrality will discourage potential competitors to the current media delivery services, as startups don't have the money to buy preferential treatment, either. competition is a good thing. removing the ability of others to compete is not.

See, that's the common misconception. People aren't fighting for bandwidth like that. Bandwidth gets sold to telecoms via auctions. That's all who buys bandwidth. There is a finite amount of bandwidth there is no such market where you pay someone to get more. Bandwidth is NOT speed. Which is what you DO pay for. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't just magically appear.

All preferential treatment means is that they move your data at the SAME rate as someone else's. It's a non-sequitur/conspiracy theory anyway, because that's already how it works for 99.9% of all websites and on the flip side of that, bandwidth is not the same everywhere you go. It gets transferred through pipes and pipes and other pipes before it gets to you, but at light speeds. It's constantly moving and barely controllable.

The way I see it, it was the exact opposite of not being able to afford special treatment. It was about not being able to afford proper infrastructure because of the dominance the telecoms have in this area. So, Netflix got the bright idea to demand preferential treatment from Comcast and Verizon so that they didn't HAVE to build up their own pipes and their own infrastructure. Even though, they would be a much better run site if they had invested the money to do so and they would have a better long-term plan. They are a still considered a startup in many circles, but a billion dollar company nonetheless. They were the first ones to initiate any type of tiered structure deal for their services to ISPs. So the notion that startups can't afford it, is baloney. This is why Cardinal didn't want to talk about Netflix. They are the instigators of this whole mess.

Then Comcast was like hold on a minute, you are using more traffic than everyone else. A third of the entire internet in fact belongs to Netflix. So Comcast said, If you don't want to get throttled during peek hours, you have to pony up or build your own network. Netflix agreed, and continue to this day!!!! That's all NN is!!! NN doesn't affect anyone else besides Facebook and Youtube, and you don't hear them complaining about throttling right? Do you know why?? Facebook and Google each have their own very robust infrastructures. Netflix does not and likely never will and they will continue to hog more and more bandwidth. Regardless of NN or "the rules."

Furthermore, the telecom streaming example is kinda really dumb because the top service telecoms have that is somewhat popular is On Demand video. I don't know anybody who praises FIOS Streaming content or Comcast's. Comcast just agreed to have a Netflix App on their cable boxes so it's not like they don't want that business. These companies are very savvy at what they do and they know this deal was a win-win for them. Trust me the NN is not some rallying cry for the internet revolution and you'll have plenty of streaming options in the future.

I for one have never had any issues with throttling and I use Netflix almost daily. I may not like the way they conduct business but they DO have great content.
 
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It has nothing to with actually making anything better. Its nothing more than an assault on private businesses. I wonder how many of Obama's tech buddies will make billions off this.

Quite a lot, though I am not sure how aligned Comcast and Obama are on policy.
 
Actually the benefits are laid out clearly in every one of these threads. However, you've adopted a strategy of deliberately avoiding educating yourself in the belief that if you continue to not understand a topic, then you'll be able to hold an opinion on it. I know this because nearly two years ago you participated eagerly in this debate despite not knowing what net neutrality is, and nearly two years later you still know nothing about the topic.

An important question is, why do you always participate in a debate that you specifically make sure to know nothing about?

You mean the vague references to a free and open internet where billion dollar internet companies "free" us from the chains of the telecoms??? Wait. I don't see that happening anywhere.
I've asked you to lay out the successes of NN and you haven't done this yet.

The funny thing is, Internet video streaming sites are already seen as things that free us from the chains of the telecoms. How many people have you met who have cut the cord? I'm planning on doing it myself soon. All they really did was up the propaganda posters on this one... :roll: If you could show us some evidence of some good it did somewhere you would have done so already.
 
You mean the vague references to a free and open internet where billion dollar internet companies "free" us from the chains of the telecoms??? Wait. I don't see that happening anywhere.
I've asked you to lay out the successes of NN and you haven't done this yet.

The funny thing is, Internet video streaming sites are already seen as things that free us from the chains of the telecoms. How many people have you met who have cut the cord? I'm planning on doing it myself soon. All they really did was up the propaganda posters on this one... :roll:

You just demonstrated that you didn't actually read the history of net neutrality in that link I provided you and that you never so much as went to the wiki page. You lied about having researched this topic.
 
Actually the benefits are laid out clearly in every one of these threads. However, you've adopted a strategy of deliberately avoiding educating yourself in the belief that if you continue to not understand a topic, then you'll be able to hold an opinion on it. I know this because nearly two years ago you participated eagerly in this debate despite not knowing what net neutrality is, and nearly two years later you still know nothing about the topic.

An important question is, why do you always participate in a debate that you specifically make sure to know nothing about?

Again, we are a clear illustration that the pro-net neutrality can't give us an explanation of it's wonderfulness beyong, "it's awesome...Obama says so!".
 
I have metered internet. I have 10GB for satellite and 10GB for cell. If I exceed the satellite limit they slow me down until the month ends. If I exceed the cell service limit, they charge me more. Welcome to the real world. There are always negative consequences to government meddling in business.

Except "government meddling" allows small business to survive being choked out from ISP's.
 
Except "government meddling" allows small business to survive being choked out from ISP's.

Bull hooey. That is just another scare story that NN proponents tell you to scare you into accepting government regulation.

The cost of doing business for small start ups just got harder as they now have to try and be nimble enough to plan data buys to meet customer need.

You will begin seeing a lot more small startup sites showing "Maximum bandwidth reached" pages towards the end of their billing cycle, or they get soaked for the extra gigs they use in excess of their plan, or money gets wasted on bandwidth they didn't use.

Again, good job guys, you backed as less nimble, less efficient government regulated internet. Amazing work of pure, unadulterated ignorance.
 
You just demonstrated that you didn't actually read the history of net neutrality in that link I provided you and that you never so much as went to the wiki page. You lied about having researched this topic.

What are the successes of NN besides it becoming a law? I'll wait.
 
So last Month the court ruled in favor of a white house backed position on net neutrality

A federal appeals court Tuesday upheld a White House-supported effort to make internet service providers treat all web traffic equally, delivering a major defeat to cable and telephone companies.
Court upholds Obama-backed net neutrality rules - POLITICO

This month we have a host of articles regarding Comcast, Centurylink, AT&T and other providers implementing and changing data caps.
This is something I saw coming and have told people this would be the alternative. If you cant put limits on the providers of high bandwidth services ( Netflix, Hulu etc etc.. ) then they ( the ISPs ) are going to throttle the end user.
Several articles talking about whats going on below including the last one which talks about a straight up usage based broadband.

Currently ( what providers have already implemented this month ) are extra fees if you go over your data ranging from $30 to $100 dollars more per month depending on your usage or the particular providers method.
I question whether the fight was worth it.

Comcast?s Netflix Deal Could Open a New Front in Net Neutrality War | WIRED
https://consumerist.com/2016/07/19/...in-charging-you-for-going-over-your-data-cap/
CenturyLink charges data overage fees, may disconnect ?excessive? users | Ars Technica
Usage-Based Broadband Picks Up More Steam | Multichannel

It's the inevitable result of trying to command the economy. It's rarely worth it.


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Bull hooey. That is just another scare story that NN proponents tell you to scare you into accepting government regulation.

Except we have documented cases of ISP's like Comcast throttling internet access of paying customers to services like Netflix and then extorting Netflix for more money. The only "government regulation" being applied here is the same regulation that already protects Telecoms.

The cost of doing business for small start ups just got harder as they now have to try and be nimble enough to plan data buys to meet customer need.

Except data caps have always existed prior to Net Neutrality. This shift from unlimited plans becoming capped is a direct result of ISP's knowing that very soon small ISPs can begin to compete and big businesses (like Google) can start truly competing on an open market.

You will begin seeing a lot more small startup sites showing "Maximum bandwidth reached" pages towards the end of their billing cycle, or they get soaked for the extra gigs they use in excess of their plan, or money gets wasted on bandwidth they didn't use.

As compared to an ISP being able to run up an unequally fair charge on a small business they don't approve of? It's been a whole year now and all the small sites I frequent haven't been hit with anything like your insinuating.

Again, good job guys, you backed as less nimble, less efficient government regulated internet.

Right, just like how government regulation ruined the telephone. :roll:

Amazing work of pure, unadulterated ignorance.

The only ignorance I am seeing is the few that are pro big businesses choking out small businesses and censorship.
 
People who try to mitigate the importance of net neutrality, as you do, typically don't know what net neutrality is and they frequently bring up netflix like it's a mic drop. What netflix says or does has no bearing on the benefits that net neutrality has to you. And if you did so much as wiki net neutrality, which you imply you did, and we all know perfectly well you didn't, then you'd know that.

Like the benefit of data caps coming back?


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See, that's the common misconception. People aren't fighting for bandwidth like that. Bandwidth gets sold to telecoms via auctions. That's all who buys bandwidth. There is a finite amount of bandwidth there is no such market where you pay someone to get more. Bandwidth is NOT speed. Which is what you DO pay for. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't just magically appear.

All preferential treatment means is that they move your data at the SAME rate as someone else's. It's a non-sequitur/conspiracy theory anyway, because that's already how it works for 99.9% of all websites and on the flip side of that, bandwidth is not the same everywhere you go. It gets transferred through pipes and pipes and other pipes before it gets to you, but at light speeds. It's constantly moving and barely controllable.

The way I see it, it was the exact opposite of not being able to afford special treatment. It was about not being able to afford proper infrastructure because of the dominance the telecoms have in this area. So, Netflix got the bright idea to demand preferential treatment from Comcast and Verizon so that they didn't HAVE to build up their own pipes and their own infrastructure. Even though, they would be a much better run site if they had invested the money to do so and they would have a better long-term plan. They are a still considered a startup in many circles, but a billion dollar company nonetheless. They were the first ones to initiate any type of tiered structure deal for their services to ISPs. So the notion that startups can't afford it, is baloney. This is why Cardinal didn't want to talk about Netflix. They are the instigators of this whole mess.

Then Comcast was like hold on a minute, you are using more traffic than everyone else. A third of the entire internet in fact belongs to Netflix. So Comcast said, If you don't want to get throttled during peek hours, you have to pony up or build your own network. Netflix agreed, and continue to this day!!!! That's all NN is!!! NN doesn't affect anyone else besides Facebook and Youtube, and you don't hear them complaining about throttling right? Do you know why?? Facebook and Google each have their own very robust infrastructures. Netflix does not and likely never will and they will continue to hog more and more bandwidth. Regardless of NN or "the rules."

Furthermore, the telecom streaming example is kinda really dumb because the top service telecoms have that is somewhat popular is On Demand video. I don't know anybody who praises FIOS Streaming content or Comcast's. Comcast just agreed to have a Netflix App on their cable boxes so it's not like they don't want that business. These companies are very savvy at what they do and they know this deal was a win-win for them. Trust me the NN is not some rallying cry for the internet revolution and you'll have plenty of streaming options in the future.

I for one have never had any issues with throttling and I use Netflix almost daily. I may not like the way they conduct business but they DO have great content.

right. in reality, companies want to purchase preferential treatment of their data so that they can be the fast, cool site while potential competitors are the slow, dumb site. **** that. there would be no netflix if net neutrality hadn't been a thing. you'd have some ****ty comcast movie service for which you would pay $2.99 per movie / show with very limited choices, because the only competitor back then was a video store.
 
More or less, though the isps were so perfectly apathetic to the needs of remote municipalities that they didn't even have an interest in building infrastructure there for themselves. I think they just didn't like the principle of competition springing up.

First, the nature of a remote municipality means the invest most likely won't be worth the return, if there ever was one. Second, why would a company which has a government sanctioned monopoly want competition? Competition means lower prices and requires investment in a better product. It's the very reason monopolies are bad.


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right. in reality, companies want to purchase preferential treatment of their data so that they can be the fast, cool site while potential competitors are the slow, dumb site. **** that. there would be no netflix if net neutrality hadn't been a thing. you'd have some ****ty comcast movie service for which you would pay $2.99 per movie / show with very limited choices, because the only competitor back then was a video store.

Watching Netflix over the Internet was a thing before net neutrality was pushed through.


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right. in reality, companies want to purchase preferential treatment of their data so that they can be the fast, cool site while potential competitors are the slow, dumb site. **** that. there would be no netflix if net neutrality hadn't been a thing. you'd have some ****ty comcast movie service for which you would pay $2.99 per movie / show with very limited choices, because the only competitor back then was a video store.

So before you didn't want a tiered system and now you are cheering for Netflix to have one all on it's own huh? What a great and fair system you guys came up with.

:lamo That makes no sense. Net Neutrality only passed in 2014, so I am not sure what you are talking about here. I think you need to do some research on this topic before you reveal how little you actually know about this topic.

There was Netflix before the 2014 Net Neutrality laws passed. Though really all content has always been treated relatively fairly. In fact before Netflix came around this wasn't really an issue. Until Netflix and the media made it one.
 
Watching Netflix over the Internet was a thing before net neutrality was pushed through.


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as was net neutrality itself, in common practice.
 
So before you didn't want a tiered system and now you are cheering for Netflix to have one all on it's own huh? What a great and fair system you guys came up with.

:lamo That makes no sense. Net Neutrality only passed in 2014, so I am not sure what you are talking about here. I think you need to do some research on this topic before you reveal how little you actually know about this topic.

There was Netflix before the 2014 Net Neutrality laws passed. Though really all content has always been treated relatively fairly. In fact before Netflix came around this wasn't really an issue. Until Netflix and the media made it one.

see above.
 
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