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John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

In the end, Bush's biggest fault was listening to bad advice. I agree with that.

Least political? Not by a long shot.

Good morning Rocket. Can you name some of the purely political actions Bush took while President?
 
The Bush administration is just as culpable in spying on all Americans.

Actually, I'd say all branches of the American government - executive, congress, and the judiciary - are all equally culpable in the current level of spying being done on all Americans.
 
All Presidents have advisers that on occasion lead them astray. One could argue that President Obama's disastrous Presidency can be laid at the feet of his inner White House counselors as opposed to the experts in the various fields who advised him differently.

That said, if a person, a President, acts with honour and sincerity of purpose and the outcome is less than what others may have wanted or expected, that doesn't mean the person or President is any less honorable. I still believe that President Bush was and is an honorable man and he acted most honorably in carrying out his duties as President. In my view, President Bush was one of the least political Presidents ever to hold the office - that is quite honorable too.

I think President Bush was a cravenly opportunistic asshole, but hey, that's just me.
 
Not at all. I asked you why Bush supposedly, personally, authorized spying on the Quakers. You didn't tell me. But if he did order it specifically, which I don't believe, it would have been done as part of a blanket order for surveillance of any and all protest groups. At a time when terrorists were becoming home grown and hiding in plain sight, it was prudent that surveillance be conducted. After all, had there been another attack on US soil, I'm sure you would have been among those who decried Bush's incompetence in not seeing the attack coming and not doing everything he could to avert it.

Is the Pentagon spying on Americans? - NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams - NBC News Investigates | NBC News
 
Good morning Rocket. Can you name some of the purely political actions Bush took while President?

I seem to recall that he had a special appointee for "faith based initiatives." A "czar" if you will. To mollify a special interest group that specifically supports his party.
 
Actually, I'd say all branches of the American government - executive, congress, and the judiciary - are all equally culpable in the current level of spying being done on all Americans.

As would I, but that culpability extends beyond the years in which Obama was President.
 
Good morning Rocket. Can you name some of the purely political actions Bush took while President?

Cutting short his vacation to sign the Terry Schiavo bill in the middle of the night.
 
I seem to recall that he had a special appointee for "faith based initiatives." A "czar" if you will. To mollify a special interest group that specifically supports his party.

Was that political or was that ideological? Based on your take, you'd argue that Bush's stand on stem cell research was political although I'd claim it was ideological.
 
As would I, but that culpability extends beyond the years in which Obama was President.

I agree - wanna bet whether or not it was going on to some extent before Bush was President? I'll be a lot of it was going on during the Johnson Presidency and the Vietnam war protests and the Nixon Presidency. Likely, before them as well.
 
Was that political or was that ideological? Based on your take, you'd argue that Bush's stand on stem cell research was political although I'd claim it was ideological.

Aren't his politics based on his ideology?
 
I agree - wanna bet whether or not it was going on to some extent before Bush was President? I'll be a lot of it was going on during the Johnson Presidency and the Vietnam war protests and the Nixon Presidency. Likely, before them as well.

I'm sure it was. Actually considering that the FBI kept a file on John Lennon would tell me that we know it was.
 
Cutting short his vacation to sign the Terry Schiavo bill in the middle of the night.

Again, was that political or ideological? Or was that simply a matter of the timeliness of signing a piece of legislation before someone was taken off life support?

In order to be a political move, in my opinion, the action has to be primarily taken to further political goals, either personal or party. One could argue that signing this bill was contrary to support of political goals or party goals.
 
I agree with President GW Bush.

I agree with Vice-President Dick Cheney.

I agree with the leadership of the CIA.

These are all honorable men, doing honorable things at a time when America needed such leadership.

As Vice-President Cheney said recently, "these agents deserve commendation, not criticism".

All that said, I'm glad the report was released.

By everything you state, the GWBush administration and Cheney deserve their day in court so they can present any contravening EVIDENCE to justify the TORTURE. I'm all for that. Let's hope the prosecutors do their job so these dudes can attempt to unsully their reputations. eh?
 
I agree with President GW Bush.

I agree with Vice-President Dick Cheney.

I agree with the leadership of the CIA.

These are all honorable men, doing honorable things at a time when America needed such leadership.

As Vice-President Cheney said recently, "these agents deserve commendation, not criticism".

All that said, I'm glad the report was released.

By everything you state, the GWBush administration and Cheney deserve their day in court so they can present any contravening EVIDENCE to justify the TORTURE. I'm all for that. Let's hope the prosecutors do their job so these dudes can attempt to unsully their reputations. eh?
 
Aren't his politics based on his ideology?

Ideology may guide politics, but politics don't rule ideology. It may be politically advantageous for a politician to do something that is contrary to their ideology. It also may be politically disadvantageous for a politician to do something that is consistent with their ideology. The example of stem cell research that I gave earlier is a prime example of an ideological move by President Bush that was potentially politically damaging to him and his party in subsequent elections.
 
By everything you state, the GWBush administration and Cheney deserve their day in court so they can present any contravening EVIDENCE to justify the TORTURE. I'm all for that. Let's hope the prosecutors do their job so these dudes can attempt to unsully their reputations. eh?

I'm told continuously by many of my American friends and foes here on DP that the proper venue for securing justice against a President or Vice-President who is believed to have broken the laws of the country while in office is an impeachment proceeding. Seems to me, all this information was well known and well available to the House of Representatives in 2007 when the Democrats were in charge and they could easily have commenced impeachment proceedings if they felt the need.

They didn't do so - therefore, the US Congress implicitly sanctioned the actions, wouldn't you agree, eh?

Or are you the type who likes to see subsequent administrations try the perceived misdeeds of their predecessors?
 
No, he's in the majority. It's just you who thinks Bush is an honorable man who acted wisely after 9/11.

And yet, President Bush had the highest job approval ratings of any President ever recorded by Gallop in the aftermath of 9/11, for his steadfast leadership of the nation.

And yet, today, President Bush has job approval ratings of his Presidency that President Obama can only sit in amazement and envy.

You may like to think I'm alone - arrogant and smug liberals always believe they are in the majority and never wrong - but I'll rest comfortably knowing I'm not.
 
And yet, President Bush had the highest job approval ratings of any President ever recorded by Gallop in the aftermath of 9/11, for his steadfast leadership of the nation.
His high was recorded 10 days after 9-11, hardly reflection on his actions post 9-11.

And yet, today, President Bush has job approval ratings of his Presidency that President Obama can only sit in amazement and envy.
Bush's term ended in January of 2009, by 10-2008 his approval hit 25%, culminating the greatest DECLINE of approval of any POTUS recorded by Gallup.

You may like to think I'm alone - arrogant and smug liberals always believe they are in the majority and never wrong - but I'll rest comfortably knowing I'm not.
I know there are LOTS of really stupid conservatives....and generally stupidity and conservatism goes hand in hand.
 
Honorable? He ordered the CIA to spy on the Quakers, for Christ sake.

Well, everybody knows you can't trust those damned Quakers. We should have kidnapped a few of them and waterboarded them to find out what they were up to. It would have been the 'honorable' thing to do. After all, what's more honorable than torturing people?:lamo
 
His high was recorded 10 days after 9-11, hardly reflection on his actions post 9-11.

Bush's term ended in January of 2009, by 10-2008 his approval hit 25%, culminating the greatest DECLINE of approval of any POTUS recorded by Gallup.

I know there are LOTS of really stupid conservatives....and generally stupidity and conservatism goes hand in hand.

Thank you for your useless piece of unrelated and irrelevant information and your gratuitous, totally typical, personal garbage.
 
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