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John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

Jack Hays said:
There's no gotcha involved. This is a relatively famous problem used in leading law schools. An early poster came close to Dershowitz's own answer: torture the man and then turn yourself in for trial.
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Napoleon said:
A million lives might be the going rate for Dershowitz's principles but it isn't for mine.
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I think Dershowitz should stop watching re-runs of "24".
Alan's Walter Mitty fantasies have him thinking he's Jack Bauer.
 
Henrin said:
Bunch of ****ing weirdos if you ask me.
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Earlier today, I saw a news blurb that stated the CIA had paid a couple psychiatrists $80 million to set up and run their interrogation program.
Eighty million.......typical gov't bureaucracy overspending.
I wonder why many conservatives, who typically deride bureaucratic overspending and incompetence, don't seem concerned about intelligence/military incompetence?
 
X Factor said:
Meh, I thought liberals rejected the notion of "American exceptionalism" as a myth born of arrogance anyway and that we're no better, and in fact worse, than any other nation out there.

If that's all true, anyway, we might as well get some intel.
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Would that be ALL liberals ?
 
Then you missed Obama's speech on American exceptionalism.
The one that Putin criticized--in which Putin garnered MUCH praise from MANY on the GOP side of the aisle.
Notice I don't use terms that refer to ALL on the conservative side which you use to the left .

X Factor said:
Well, I don't think you can speak to what every liberal thinks/believes (and neither can I so I totally should have qualified that post). I think most liberals who constantly criticize the US mean well, but, at the same time, you can't use this notion of American exceptionalism only when it's a convenient bludgeon.
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X Factor said:
(I'm one of the few people that actually likes John McCain)
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Wrong again.
Especially on your continued description of what ALL people think when yer the first to complain about that from the libruls.
Who made you the expert on who likes John McCain ?
 
Misterveritis said:
Protecting the nation, against all enemies, foreign or Democrat, I mean domestic, will always be honorable.
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That's where you are wrong. They were not protecting the nation, they were attempting unravel its strength. If we could do those things to foreign prisoners we could do the same to our own. Then we would be no better than the Nazi's and worthy of the same fate.
 
Jack Hays said:
The Dershowitz problem is not at all partisan. It is taught at our leading law schools.
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so are we good to go with increased taxes and single payer, then? after all, terrorists and NYC nukes are the only alternative.

:roll:
 
Redress said:
If the world was about to end, and the only way to save the world was to have wild, passionate sex with jack Hayes, would you do it? Now don't change the question, and any failure to answer either yes or no means you are cowardly running away from the question, so which is it, yes or no.

And now I got Meatloaf stuck in my head...
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Posting False Dichotomies with Jack might make for a great game show, if such a thing exists.
 
danarhea said:
I stopped voting Republican when Bush led us to a war in Iraq based on lies. Since then, I have voted only for Libertarians..... Except for one time. That was in 2008, when I voted for John McCain, who IMHO, is willing to put party politics aside and call a spade a spade.

This video, of McCain's speech, made on the Senate floor today, is a must watch, for John McCain, in his harsh criticism of his own party, represents the conscience of America, and is a Republican I would vote for again. There should be no Republicans or Democrats, but Americans who stand for American ideals, and torture is certainly not one of them.

Give 'em hell, John.

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The biggest RINO is office siding with a partisan hack study conducted by democrats trying to suck the balls of anti-war trash for votes.Say it ain't so.

BTW I have no problem with the report being released.I have come to the conclusion that terrorist scum don't need an excuse to murder innocent people and the only thing the government should be allowed to keep secret is troop movements during a time of war.Actual war not this war on terror bull****.
 
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Amadeus said:
There was no evidence that Iraq orchestrated the attack. There was only intelligence that Bin Laden was determined to strike the US. No one ever suggested an Iraq connection outside of neocon circles, who stated in their manifesto that a Pearl Harbor incident would be a great way to start a campaign of reshaping the Middle East, starting with Iraq.



Yeah, otherwise America might have invaded the wrong country. Wouldn't that have been embarrassing? What I thank is that Stephen Harper -- your hero -- wasn't PM of Canada at the time, or else Canada might have been dragged into that clusterf*ck of a war and bled us of money and Canadian lives.
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You quoted Rumsfeld on the afternoon of 9/11 and I answered that scenario. The level of evidence years later is irrelevant to the reaction of the Defense Secretary on the very day of the 9/11 attacks.

And just to be clear, Canada was involved in the Iraq war, under your hero Jean Chretien. Only difference is that Jean Chretien involved Canada dishonestly, on the sly - the standard practice of liberals world wide.
 
ObamacareFail said:
That goes into the classification of liberals in the Senate hoping that if they repeat a lie enough times, it will be perceived as the truth. Leon Panetta who spend time heading the CIA under Obama and was part of the Clinton administration has stated more then once that the lead that the lead that led to finding Osama Bin Laden came from enhanced interrogations.
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First post since the OP I've wanted to respond to since the first 130+ posts I read were nothing but personal sniping.

Leon Panetta has said that, you are correct. The statements that "not a single piece of useful intel were had" (and similar ones) are not correct if you are to believe Panetta. And Panetta has a bit more credibility than posters on a message board.
 
danarhea said:
I stopped voting Republican when Bush led us to a war in Iraq based on lies. Since then, I have voted only for Libertarians..... Except for one time. That was in 2008, when I voted for John McCain, who IMHO, is willing to put party politics aside and call a spade a spade.

This video, of McCain's speech, made on the Senate floor today, is a must watch, for John McCain, in his harsh criticism of his own party, represents the conscience of America, and is a Republican I would vote for again. There should be no Republicans or Democrats, but Americans who stand for American ideals, and torture is certainly not one of them.

Give 'em hell, John.

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I supported McCain in 2008 enthusiastically. I like the man, did then and do now. Nobody should be surprised at his words on this topic - he's been saying them for years. I can't watch the video on this computer but I did see some snips yesterday of McCain so I assume this is the same speech (and I know the gist).

The one thing this country will never agree on is was this "torture" in the way most of us understand torture. My uncle was in the Bataan Death March and before he died he told my parents some of the terrible things done to him and his fellow soldiers. What happened to him was in my eyes "torture". I also believe McCain was tortured. I don't really believe that what happened to these people is in the same league. And luckily here in America we didn't as a country decide to exact revenge on the Japanese and Koreans and others for what they did to our men. I don't share that belief of the terrorists today. JMO.
 
danarhea said:
I stopped voting Republican when Bush led us to a war in Iraq based on lies. Since then, I have voted only for Libertarians..... Except for one time. That was in 2008, when I voted for John McCain, who IMHO, is willing to put party politics aside and call a spade a spade.

This video, of McCain's speech, made on the Senate floor today, is a must watch, for John McCain, in his harsh criticism of his own party, represents the conscience of America, and is a Republican I would vote for again. There should be no Republicans or Democrats, but Americans who stand for American ideals, and torture is certainly not one of them.

Give 'em hell, John.

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Even a blind hog finds an acorn from time to time. McCain is on the right side here because he was tortured himself, despite being the Admiral's Son. At least I make that assumption.

Otherwise, McCain stands for the status quo--more war.
 
NIMBY said:
Then you missed Obama's speech on American exceptionalism.
The one that Putin criticized--in which Putin garnered MUCH praise from MANY on the GOP side of the aisle.
Notice I don't use terms that refer to ALL on the conservative side which you use to the left .
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NIMBY, if you didn't, for once, just use "terms that refer to ALL on the conservative side" this might be a first for you. Congrats, however, you have shown yourself to not being exactly adverse to doing just that in the past. Can you be honest and agree with me on that?

All that said, you're right in that I should have qualified that statement. In fact, the post you quoted from me acknowledges that very thing, so you're actually a little late to this party.
 
Jack Hays said:
The performance of solemn duty is always honorable.
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The 9/11 attacks were the "solemn duty" of the terrorists who committed them in order to defend their way of life against the threat the United States posed to it. It's good to know that you think their actions were honorable.
 
McCain has earned the right to speak on this subject, so I'll give him that.

I believe that if someone decided that these methods are appropriate, then if they are found to be inappropriate, then they should be Patriots enough to accept any consequences.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I consider the steady, firm leadership of President Bush following 9/11 to be some of the most honorable leadership in American history. I'm Canadian, but I was damn proud of him and I thanked whatever god there is that he was President at the time. You are entitled to view that as sadism if you choose.
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From the report : "Majid Khan’s ‘lunch tray’ consisting of hummus, pasta, with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed’ and rectally infused." That's not honorable. Thank God you're not an American.
 
danarhea said:
I stopped voting Republican when Bush led us to a war in Iraq based on lies. Since then, I have voted only for Libertarians..... Except for one time. That was in 2008, when I voted for John McCain, who IMHO, is willing to put party politics aside and call a spade a spade.

This video, of McCain's speech, made on the Senate floor today, is a must watch, for John McCain, in his harsh criticism of his own party, represents the conscience of America, and is a Republican I would vote for again. There should be no Republicans or Democrats, but Americans who stand for American ideals, and torture is certainly not one of them.

Give 'em hell, John.

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Torture is one of the few issues where I see eye-to-eye with McCain. The other times, though, he makes me want to pull my hair out.
 
Misterveritis said:
It looks like it works.
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Whether or not it "works" is not the point (though the released report indicates it does not). The point is we should not be resorting to barbaric practices and lowering ourselves to the terrorists' level.

I'm sure the third world/medieval world practice of cutting off the hands of thieves "works", as well.
 
Misterveritis said:
Protecting the nation, against all enemies, foreign or Democrat, I mean domestic, will always be honorable.
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Using practices that unnecessarily expose us to more retaliation is never honorable.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
From the report : "Majid Khan’s ‘lunch tray’ consisting of hummus, pasta, with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed’ and rectally infused." That's not honorable. Thank God you're not an American.
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How can you write that? Of course it was honorable. We could have shoved it up his ass without being pureed.
 
Henrin said:
Yeah man, when we use rape as a torture device that causes no lasting harm at all. Nope.

Hell man, our actions are so humane we strip them naked and make them do tricks for us, we make them do sexual things to each other, we make them seem like they are drowning, and did I mention we sometimes use rape? Yeah man, it's all good.
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Source for rape used for torture?

Craziest thing I saw was that rectal infusion business, ugh.

The CIA is grim, but so is the world, so I have given the pass to water-boarding and sleep deprivation. But, even then, I've read that in the end physical torture isn't as effective as lawful interrogation in the long term -- it was from some article about a Vietnam interrogator who got much farther with mental techniques than torturing people.

Still, with even McCain having gone after it, I find myself undecided.
 
Redress said:
If you want to be the good guys, you have to act like the good guys. I want to be one of the good guys. We do not need to torture, we should not torture, we should be better than those we are fighting against.
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So where do you stand on the RAF fire bombing of dresden in WW2 or the atom bomb drops on Japan?
 
Mccain jumped the shark a long time ago.
I don't have any use for him.

This report will only remind people why they hate Democrats so much .

Politics trumps everything.
From ' Bush lied to get us into Iraq' to this.

They are Alqaeda and isis' best recruiters.
 
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