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John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

Misterveritis said:
Do you believe that all prisoners of war experience enhanced interrogation techniques?

We put ours in Club Med, give them a Koran, a prayer rug, fatten them up and then, well rested and revitalized we return them to battlefields where they can kill more of us.

Try not to conflate what happens to high value detainees and the typical captured unlawful enemy combatant.
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The United States Department of Defense (DOD) had stopped reporting Guantanamo suicide attempts in 2002. In mid-2002 the DoD changed the way they classified suicide attempts, and enumerated them under other acts of "self-injurious behavior".

On January 24, 2005 the U.S. military revealed that in 2003, there were 350 incidents of "self-harm."[1] 120 of those incidents of self-harm were attempts by detainees to hang themselves. Twenty-three detainees participated in a mass-suicide attempt from August 18 to 26, 2003.[1] A number of incidents happened after a change in command at the camp in 2003 increased the severity of interrogation techniques used by military and CIA intelligence officers.[1]

On June 10, 2006, the DOD announced that three prisoners held by the United States at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camps had committed suicide. The June 10, 2006 suicides were the first inmate deaths at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp.[2] The DoD acknowledged there had been a total of 41 suicide attempts among 29 detainees until that date.[2] Since June 2006, DOD has announced three suicide deaths by detainees at Guantanamo. In 2008, the NCIS released a heavily redacted report of its investigation of the three suicides at Guantanamo in 2006.

In reports published in 2009 and 2010, Seton Hall University Law School's Center for Policy and Research and a joint investigation by Harper's magazine and NBC News, respectively, strongly criticized the government's account of the 2006 suicides. Harper's 2010 article, based on accounts by four former Guantanamo guards, asserted that DOD had initiated a cover-up of deaths resulting from torture during interrogation. The DOD has denied these allegations.

Fourth suicide, May 30, 2007

The Southern Command announced on the evening of May 30, 2007 that a Saudi prisoner had died of suicide.[32][33] They announced: "The detainee was found unresponsive and not breathing in his cell by guards." The DoD did not immediately release the dead man's identity. The DoD asserted that his body would be treated with cultural sensitivity.

The statement closed with the following:[32][33]

"The mission of detention and interrogation at Guantanamo continues. This mission is vital to the security of our nation and our allies and is being carried out professionally and humanely by the men and women of Joint Task Force Guantanamo."

On May 31, 2007 Saudi officials announced that the dead man was Abdul Rahman Maadha al-Amry.[34] The Associated Press reported that same day that al-Amry had been identified as one of the "high-value detainees", held in Camp 5.[35][36] Carol Rosenberg of the Miami Herald reported his name as Abdul Rahman Ma Ath Thafir Al Amri and that he was a military veteran of the Saudi army.[37] He had never been allowed to meet with an attorney.[37]

Other newspaper reports commented on the timing of the death, pointing out that it was almost a year after the three deaths of June 10, 2006. They noted that both incidents followed a new commander being assigned to JTF-GTMO. In addition, the deaths had occurred before the convening of a military commission to judge detainees' cases.[38][39]
Fifth suicide June 1, 2009

Mohammad Ahmed Abdullah Saleh Al Hanashi, a 31-year-old prisoner from Yemen, died in the camps on June 1, 2009. On June 2, 2009 the DOD reported that he committed suicide.[40] [41] A number of journalists were at the camp to cover a military commission for Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen who is the youngest detainee and the last western citizen to be held there. (Note: He was returned to Canada in 2012 after a plea bargain, to continue serving his sentence.) The camp authorities did not allow journalists to report news of Al Hanashi's death until after they had left Guantanamo.[41]
Sixth suicide May 18, 2011

DOD announced that Inayatullah, 37, an Afghan detainee held since 2007 on suspicion of being a member of Al Qaeda, was found dead on May 18, an apparent suicide.[42] The press reported that his given name is Hajji Nassim, according to his attorney.[43] He was referred to as Inayatullah only at the Guantanamo camp. He was arrested in Iran near the border with Afghanistan, and was classified by DOD as an "indefinite detainee."[43]
Wikipedia
 
Misterveritis said:
Do you believe that all prisoners of war experience enhanced interrogation techniques?

We put ours in Club Med, give them a Koran, a prayer rug, fatten them up and then, well rested and revitalized we return them to battlefields where they can kill more of us.

Try not to conflate what happens to high value detainees and the typical captured unlawful enemy combatant.
Click to expand...

"Guantánamo Bay hunger strikes began during the middle of 2005, when detainees held by the United States at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp initiated two hunger strikes. The detainees organized several widespread hunger strikes to protest their innocence, and the conditions of their confinement.[1][2][3][4] Other captives, such as the men camp authorities asserted committed suicide in June 2006, had committed themselves to long-term hunger strikes, which were not shared by the other captives. Widespread hunger strikes recurred in 2013....
A new wave of the hunger strike arose in early 2013. At its peak in July, 106 of the 166 detainees are on hunger strike, with 45 of them being force-fed. [10][11]

On December 4, 2013 US military announced that it would no longer disclose information about the hunger strikes, explaining that "The release of this information serves no operational purpose".[12]

Last disclosed figures in December showed numbers of hunger strikers rising to 15, with all being tube fed [13]"
Wikipedia
 
Misterveritis said:
Do you believe that all prisoners of war experience enhanced interrogation techniques?

We put ours in Club Med, give them a Koran, a prayer rug, fatten them up and then, well rested and revitalized we return them to battlefields where they can kill more of us.

Try not to conflate what happens to high value detainees and the typical captured unlawful enemy combatant.
Click to expand...

"The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) released documents of forty-four autopsies held in Afghanistan and Iraq October 25, 2005. Twenty-one of those deaths were listed as homicides. The documents show that detainees died during and after interrogations by Navy SEALs, Military Intelligence, and Other Government Agency (OGA).

“These documents present irrefutable evidence that U.S. operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogation,” said Amrit Singh, an attorney with the ACLU. “The public has a right to know who authorized the use of torture techniques and why these deaths have been covered up.”

The Department of Defense released the autopsy reports in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense, and Veterans for Peace.

One of forty-four U.S. military autopsy reports reads as follows: “Final Autopsy Report: DOD 003164, (Detainee) Died as a result of asphyxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) due to strangulation as evidenced by the recently fractured hyoid bone in the neck and soft tissue hemorrhage extending downward to the level of the right thyroid cartilage. Autopsy revealed bone fracture, rib fractures, contusions in mid abdomen, back and buttocks extending to the left flank, abrasions, lateral buttocks. Contusions, back of legs and knees; abrasions on knees, left fingers and encircling to left wrist. Lacerations and superficial cuts, right 4th and 5th fingers. Also, blunt force injuries, predominately recent contusions (bruises) on the torso and lower extremities. Abrasions on left wrist are consistent with use of restraints. No evidence of defense injuries or natural disease. Manner of death is homicide. Whitehorse Detainment Facility, Nasiriyah, Iraq.”

Another report from the ACLU indicates: “a 27-year-old Iraqi male died while being interrogated by Navy Seals on April 5, 2004, in Mosul, Iraq. During his confinement he was hooded, flex-cuffed, sleep deprived and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and head. The exact cause of death was ‘undetermined’ although the autopsy stated that hypothermia may have contributed to his death.”

An overwhelming majority of the so-called “natural deaths” covered in the autopsies were attributed to “arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease” (heart attack). Persons under extreme stress and pain may have heart attacks as a result of the circumstances of their detainments."
7. US Operatives Torture Detainees to Death in Afghanistan and Iraq – Top 25 of 2007

"For five years as a researcher for Human Rights Watch and reporter, John Sifton helped investigate homicides resulting from the Bush administration's torture policy. His findings include:

• An estimated 100 detainees have died during interrogations, some who were clearly tortured to death.

• The Bush Justice Department failed to investigate and prosecute alleged murders even when the CIA inspector general referred a case.

• Sifton’s request for specific information on cases was rebuffed by the Bush Justice Department, though it was “familiar with the cases...."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/05/05/how-many-were-tortured-to-death.html
 
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Helix said:
i don't know what that is.
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It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
 
Jack Hays said:
It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
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Except in all likelihood he would give you a false code knowing that you have no way of verifying that anything he says is true until you try it. At which point, you've been vaporized and the bomb maker is satisfied in the knowledge that you were an imbecile. So no, I wouldn't torture him. I'd try find something he might want more than to detonate a nuke in New York City and offer him a carrot if he disarms the bomb himself.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
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there's a super big nuclear bomb in New York City. the only way to keep it from going off is to raise taxes and enroll everyone in Medicare. do you support doing that?

please. spare me the bull**** partisan hypotheticals.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
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My solution is to put all torturers on trial. If they can convince a jury that the torture was necessary to save lives they will be acquitted.
 
Napoleon said:
Except in all likelihood he would give you a false code knowing that you have no way of verifying that anything he says is true until you try it. At which point, you've been vaporized and the bomb maker is satisfied in the knowledge that you were an imbecile.
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Perhaps, but the outcome is actually irrelevant. The point of the problem is whether you would torture if it were the only way to save the million lives. Any embroidery on the problem (such as yours) is mere avoidance.
 
Helix said:
there's a super big nuclear bomb in New York City. the only way to keep it from going off is to raise taxes and enroll everyone in Medicare. do you support doing that?

please. spare me the bull**** partisan hypotheticals.
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Alan Dershowitz is a very left liberal and ACLU point man. He devised the problem in 2002. The fact that it makes you uncomfortable does not mean it is partisan.
 
Jack Hays said:
Perhaps, but the outcome is actually irrelevant. The point of the problem is whether you would torture if it were the only way to save the million lives. Any embroidery on the problem (such as yours) is mere avoidance.
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Hardly. The problem itself is a logical fallacy; a false dilemma. Torturing people is never a guarantee that you'll get any information at all let alone accurate intelligence and it is never the only way to acquire either of those things.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
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I'd call Batman. How does that work for you and your man, Dershowitz?
 
Napoleon said:
Hardly. The problem itself is a logical fallacy; a false dilemma. Torturing people is never a guarantee that you'll get any information at all let alone accurate intelligence and it is never the only way to acquire either of those things.
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In this case it is the only way, and although success is not guaranteed, all other approaches guarantee failure. You are not allowed to introduce unicorns and rainbows into the problem.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is a problem created by law professor Alan Dershowitz. A nuclear weapon has been placed in New York City. It has been found, but it is set to detonate in one hour. It will detonate instantly if moved. The detonation can be prevented only with a code known only to the bomb maker, who is in custody. If it detonates the bomb will kill at least one million people. Do you torture the bomb maker to learn the code?
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The problem with that is it is not real world. When the best argument for torture is an imaginative scenario that would not happen in the real world, that should tell you something.
 
Jack Hays said:
Perhaps, but the outcome is actually irrelevant. The point of the problem is whether you would torture if it were the only way to save the million lives. Any embroidery on the problem (such as yours) is mere avoidance.
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Torture is not, has not been, and will not be the only way to save a million lives. Kinda ruins that scenario doesn't it...
 
Redress said:
The problem with that is it is not real world. When the best argument for torture is an imaginative scenario that would not happen in the real world, that should tell you something.
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The problem is designed to remove all attempts to dodge the moral issue, like yours, from the discussion.
 
Jack Hays said:
Alan Dershowitz is a very left liberal and ACLU point man. He devised the problem in 2002. The fact that it makes you uncomfortable does not mean it is partisan.
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i'll take that as a no. your fallacy is assuming that torture could save NYC in the first place.
 
Alan M. Dershowitz | Harvard Law School

Professor Alan M. Dershowitz is Brooklyn native who has been called “the nation’s most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer” and one of its “most distinguished defenders of individual rights,” “the best-known criminal lawyer in the world,” “the top lawyer of last resort,” “America’s most public Jewish defender” and “Israel’s single most visible defender – the Jewish state’s lead attorney in the court of public opinion.” He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg.
He has also published more than 1000 articles in magazines, newspapers, journals and blogs such as The New York Times Magazine, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Harvard Law Review, the Yale Law Journal, Huffington Post, Newsmax, Jerusalem Post and Ha’aretz. Professor Dershowitz is the author of 30 fiction and non-fiction works with a worldwide audience, including The New York Times #1 bestseller Chutzpah and five other national bestsellers. His autobiography, Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law, was published in October 2013 by Crown, a division of Random House. Earlier titles include “an exceptional, action packed book,” The Trials of Zion, a novel which has been called “a thought-provoking page turner;” Rights From Wrong; The Case For Israel; The Case For Peace; Blasphemy; Preemption; Finding Jefferson; and Shouting Fire.
 
Helix said:
i'll take that as a no. your fallacy is assuming that torture could save NYC in the first place.
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The problem does not guarantee that torture succeeds but it guarantees that every other course of action will fail.
 
Jack Hays said:
In this case it is the only way, and although success is not guaranteed, all other approaches guarantee failure. You are not allowed to introduce unicorns and rainbows into the problem.
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Facts aren't unicorns and rainbows and if facts cannot be introduced then what is the point of the problem?
 
Napoleon said:
Facts aren't unicorns and rainbows and if facts cannot be introduced then what is the point of the problem?
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The point is to compel confrontation with the possibility of torturing one life to save a million.
 
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