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Fake veteran called out by actual soldier may face federal charges

Northern Light said:
A lot of people in our society serve the same function in risking their lives all the time, but they aren't in the military so they don't get the same level of prestige. That's my point, which people seem to keep glossing over.

Our military is over-glorified.
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I will ask you again, seeing as how you ignored my question the first time.

Did you serve?
 
" ...They also serve, who only stand and wait." What does it matter? It's a storm in a teacup in the grand scale of things. A cop, a fireman, a nurse, all put their lives on the line, sometimes more frequently than any soldier.
 
Northern Light said:
A lot of people in our society serve the same function in risking their lives all the time, but they aren't in the military so they don't get the same level of prestige. That's my point, which people seem to keep glossing over.

Our military is over-glorified.
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Still dont want to tell me who these upper class people that just are given high rank are that never have to sacrifice are huh Why am I not surprised.
 
Lutherf said:
Look, I'm a vet and I think that what this guy did is pure assholery but I don't want to see charges pressed. I didn't choose to take on the responsibilities of a service member so that some day we could start criminalizing stupid and thoughtless behavior. Feel free to shame the guy and call him out for being a fraud but federal charges are just out of line for something this stupid.
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I agree with you that he should not be charged with anything. He is just a POS that needs attention. With that said though I think those that make up service or embellish what they did in order to get hired for certain jobs or to substantially gain financially should be prosecuted. But yeah this guy should get nothing other than maybe an ass kicking from some former Ranger BN guys.
 
Manc Skipper said:
" ...They also serve, who only stand and wait." What does it matter? It's a storm in a teacup in the grand scale of things. A cop, a fireman, a nurse, all put their lives on the line, sometimes more frequently than any soldier.
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You are entirely misinterpreting here what Milton meant.
 
Superfly said:
Well he/she has been online since I asked, and I still don't have an answer, so... I think we have our answer.

Really easy to talk smack about things you have absolutely no idea about.
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I dont think he was talking smack. There is a level of hero worshipping towards Vets in the US, UK etc and he is right it is not always warranted. I know guys that served 5 years in the army and now earn 5 figure salaries using the traning they received, I know guys who were terrible at their jobs, guys who always tried to get out of any hevay lifting and guys who needed mental help.

End of the day its a career choice we all make and as much as I would like people to recognise my service I certiantly dont expect it.
 
Let's just be clear - the original Stolen Valor Act of 2005 was overturned in 2012 by the SCOTUS. There was a new Stolen Valor law signed into law in June 2013 by Obama, called The Stolen Valor Act of 2013.

That was signed into law and is still in effect - narrowing and clarifying the 2005 law that states the liar must be profit from claiming to be a soldier - which in this case, he did, shopping on Black Friday and I am assuming, getting military discounts.


Stolen Valor Act of 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Lutherf said:
Look, I'm a vet and I think that what this guy did is pure assholery but I don't want to see charges pressed. I didn't choose to take on the responsibilities of a service member so that some day we could start criminalizing stupid and thoughtless behavior. Feel free to shame the guy and call him out for being a fraud but federal charges are just out of line for something this stupid.
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There is a difference between being a poseur and a poseur who is attempting to defraud. This Sean Yetman was trying to take advantage of discounts available to vets on Black Friday.
 
Northern Light said:
Kind of makes me think about the level of privilege soldiers have in our culture's iconography, and how impersonating that is some kind of sacrilege.

We shouldn't venerate all soldiers. Some people use the military to get through college, and they get nice cushy jobs in the military -- no self-sacrifice required. I don't really view those people with the same level of esteem as someone who fought in a war zone and saw their friends die. But they seem to receive a sort of carte blanche kind of pride, regardless of what they did.

People shouldn't impersonate someone in the military, anymore than they should impersonate a cop or someone in government. On the other hand, I don't think upper class people who get high ranks in the military and basically do nothing should get my respect either.
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Is a veteran who served in peace time any less of a veteran because they weren't "lucky" enough to serve in wartime and combat?

The correct answer is, "No, they are not any less of a veteran."

To be fair, though, I do remember many people called to duty in Bush I's 1991 Iraq War saying things like, "I didn't sign up for this. I just wanted the free college money."

Ummm, yeah, you did sign up for it. Now shut up and report.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more and video @: Fake veteran called out by actual soldier may face federal charges

Saw this video earlier this week. Its really disgusting that people impersonate soldiers to get some sort of personal ego trip or some sort of deal. I'm glad that he got called out for his disgusting acts and I hope that if he did indeed break a law be persecuted for it. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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I thought the SCOTUS ruled lying was free speech and the Stolen Valor Act was basically meaningless.
 
Perotista said:
I thought the SCOTUS ruled lying was free speech and the Stolen Valor Act was basically meaningless.
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They did - however the new 2013 version of the law said if the liar profits from the lie, he is in violation of the law.
 
To me this is similar to flag desecration laws. The act is vile and disgraceful, but outlawing it goes against everything people fight to preserve.
 
braindrain said:
Still dont want to tell me who these upper class people that just are given high rank are that never have to sacrifice are huh Why am I not surprised.
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The same social issues such as classism, racism, sexism, etc. that occur in the rest of society occur in the military.
 
nota bene said:
There is a difference between being a poseur and a poseur who is attempting to defraud. This Sean Yetman was trying to take advantage of discounts available to vets on Black Friday.
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That's what scumbags do. They do scummy things. If the retailers want to press charges then that's a whole different thing than just being an idiot who wants to play soldier.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more and video @: Fake veteran called out by actual soldier may face federal charges

Saw this video earlier this week. Its really disgusting that people impersonate soldiers to get some sort of personal ego trip or some sort of deal. I'm glad that he got called out for his disgusting acts and I hope that if he did indeed break a law be persecuted for it. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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If he didn't reap any material benefit I don't think he should be prosecuted for anything. I'm a near absolutist when it comes to freedom of speech and it isn't appropriate to imprison someone for being a liar.
 
Ockham said:
Let's just be clear - the original Stolen Valor Act of 2005 was overturned in 2012 by the SCOTUS. There was a new Stolen Valor law signed into law in June 2013 by Obama, called The Stolen Valor Act of 2013.

That was signed into law and is still in effect - narrowing and clarifying the 2005 law that states the liar must be profit from claiming to be a soldier - which in this case, he did, shopping on Black Friday and I am assuming, getting military discounts.


Stolen Valor Act of 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Thanks for the info, Ockham.

I know this really has nothing to do with the Stolen Valor Act, but how can someone get away with getting a military discount without having to show their ID? I ask for the discount everywhere I shop, and every place that offers it, requires you show your ID before you can receive the discount.
 
Northern Light said:
Kind of makes me think about the level of privilege soldiers have in our culture's iconography, and how impersonating that is some kind of sacrilege.

We shouldn't venerate all soldiers. Some people use the military to get through college, and they get nice cushy jobs in the military -- no self-sacrifice required. I don't really view those people with the same level of esteem as someone who fought in a war zone and saw their friends die. But they seem to receive a sort of carte blanche kind of pride, regardless of what they did.

People shouldn't impersonate someone in the military, anymore than they should impersonate a cop or someone in government. On the other hand, I don't think upper class people who get high ranks in the military and basically do nothing should get my respect either.
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And you have the right to treat us with the level of respect you choose.

We protected that right for you.
 
Northern Light said:
The same social issues such as classism, racism, sexism, etc. that occur in the rest of society occur in the military.
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Of course they do. The military is made up of humans and is a reflection of the society they come from.

That being said it has nothing whatsoever to do with the question you continue to avoid. So again can you tell me what upper class citizen is just given high rank and has to make no self sacrifices.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more and video @: Fake veteran called out by actual soldier may face federal charges

Saw this video earlier this week. Its really disgusting that people impersonate soldiers to get some sort of personal ego trip or some sort of deal. I'm glad that he got called out for his disgusting acts and I hope that if he did indeed break a law be persecuted for it. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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I agree he's a **** head, but just sporting the uniform in public, looking cool isn't a crime, IMO.
 
Superfly said:
Thanks for the info, Ockham.

I know this really has nothing to do with the Stolen Valor Act, but how can someone get away with getting a military discount without having to show their ID? I ask for the discount everywhere I shop, and every place that offers it, requires you show your ID before you can receive the discount.
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I'm guessing here (pure speculation) but since the guy was in full fatigues, asking for an ID wouldn't have been needed. The only people who really would have seen through the costume (in this case that what it was since he is not in the military) was someone who also wore the uniform and could identify the slight mistakes. Unless the clerk working in the store was also a recent vet, I wouldn't expect they'd question him.
 
Higgins86 said:
I dont think he was talking smack. There is a level of hero worshipping towards Vets in the US, UK etc and he is right it is not always warranted. I know guys that served 5 years in the army and now earn 5 figure salaries using the traning they received, I know guys who were terrible at their jobs, guys who always tried to get out of any hevay lifting and guys who needed mental help.
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But that doesn't belittle the fact that they served. Just because somebody is a mental patient doesn't mean that they don't deserve respect. Remember that a lot of people developed mental health issues as a result of their service. And 5 figures could be as little as 10K a year, which is around minimum wage. :)

End of the day its a career choice we all make and as much as I would like people to recognise my service I certiantly dont expect it.
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OK. I will say this. I am the wife of a Vietnam-era Vet. Nobody knows the frustration of this more than I do. People coming back today are thrown parades, given free houses, free cars, and made out to be heroes, even if they never left the motor pool or the mess hall. Todays soldiers come back heroes and have possibly never even seen combat. Vietnam vets came back and were spat on. My husband had to remove his uniform when he disembarked his plane, along with all the other soldiers, because his company commander didn't want them to be spat on, or called baby killers.

Big difference in the way they were treated, and it stinks. You see homeless vets now? I'd bet 80% or higher are Vietnam vets.

The issue I have is this -- people shouldn't talk about things they don't understand. If they've never served, they don't have the right to complain about the military. Put on a uniform, walk a mile in a soldier's boots, or be the wife or the child of a soldier, and then they can talk. Otherwise, they can STFU.
 
This further leads me to believe that the US Army, Air Force, and Navy need to cease their practice of allowing soldiers/airmen/sailors to wear utilities off base.

A little background on this. In case you guys didn't know, Marines are not allowed to wear utilities off base except to and from base and to special events that are approved by Headquarters Marine Corps. Examples of unauthorized wearing would be stopping for gas on the way home, stopping at McDonald's and going in, etc. Authorized wearing would be Fleet Week in NYC or a static display at a military appreciation event. Marines can also go through a drive through in cammies but not a Sonic (the vehicle stops). Don't ask me why, I didn't make the rules.

The reasons the other branches should cease this is that the service uniforms are A) Harder to fake. Utilities are pretty easy to fake. You can throw them on, look at a picture online of someone else wearing them to try and get it close, and off you go. B) Is more expensive. There are a lot of gadgets, ribbons, etc you have to buy for a dress uniform and they can get pricey. Also, you aren't going to find many serviceable service uniforms at a Army Navy surplus. C) It is easy to look like crap in a service uniform if you don't know what you're doing. Everything from the allowable distance between the bottom of your trousers to the heel of the shoe to double creases to length of the belt end are things a real service member would know. Some of us get a few of those things wrong sure. But not egregiously and not all together. If it is out of regulations, it's usually only barely out. D) Personally, I think the other branches look like crap out there in utilities. They aren't made to be presented to the public. They are made for utility type work ie conducting maintenance on trucks, training, etc.
 
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