Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Police

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Visbek said:

I don't know actual police policy or the psychology of these kinds of situations. What I can say is that I am not surprised by the citizen's subsequent reaction.



Did he? Really?

He's not a mind reader, and apparently he wasn't walking around with a police scanner. The only thing he had to go on was what the officer told him, and "having your hands in your pockets" is an absurd reason to suspect anyone.



Amusingly enough, the police also used social media to give a fuller background.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=892284980805860

Numerous media reports have also given the PD's side of things.





C'mon, man. The guy was doing nothing, got stopped by the police, found the reason for the stop to be absurd, and posted it on Youtube.

Video cameras are all but ubiquitous, and more people are filming their encounters with the police. When they do something improper -- or just absurd -- they're going to get called on it. IMO this is a good thing, as it is likely to curb police abuse, without actually preventing them from doing their jobs.



?!?!?

The guy wasn't walking around with an AK-47. He wasn't armed. No one had any reason to think he was armed. He was just walking around, with his hands in his pockets.

If walking around on a cold day with your hands in your pockets is a valid reason for suspicion, then I should've been stopped by the police at least twice a day, every day, for the past month. Care to guess if that's the case...?

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What?

The cop version and the 911 call indicate that he was doing more than "just walking down the street". He was acting in a way that gave people concern. The cop did manage to get that part across. Yeah, "because your hands were in your pockets" isn't sufficient probable cause and the cop could have been a good bit more specific as to what was happening but the subsequent outburst by the guy was unnecessary. Then, to exacerbate things, he seems to have gone to the media with an incomplete story which the media then never bothered to follow up on before before voicing their "outrage".

This guy's rights were never violated. He wasn't "disrespected" by anybody and there is no indication whatsoever that there was a racial motive anywhere in the situation that wasn't manufactured by a whole slew of people motivated by some bull**** "social justice" agenda.

Respect and tolerance are a two way street and they are also a process. People jumping to conclusions and making mountains out of molehills only serves to stall that process.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Lutherf said:

The cop version and the 911 call indicate that he was doing more than "just walking down the street". He was acting in a way that gave people concern.

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Thanks for jumping to a whole series of conclusions.

We don't know if the 911 call was accurate. Granted, after multiple robberies a store owner is entitled to be suspicious, but that doesn't prove that his description is accurate. (In fact, it might suggest the opposite.)

We don't know if Brandon McKean was the person the shop owner reported. It seems unlikely, as he was at a friend's house when the 911 call was made, and had only been walking outside for a few minutes.

Even if we accept those two aspects at face value, then no, looking in a shop window is NOT equivalent to walking around with an AK-47 on a strap. That's just insane.

Yeah, "because your hands were in your pockets" isn't sufficient probable cause and the cop could have been a good bit more specific as to what was happening but the subsequent outburst by the guy was unnecessary.

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I see. It's perfectly acceptable for police to randomly stop people, provide a flimsy excuse for the stop, and no one should complain.

I'm curious, how often do you get stopped? How many times would it take for you to get stopped, before you started complaining about it, and thinking that something was up?

This guy's rights were never violated.

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McKean didn't claim they were. He was expressing outrage over what he thought was an unacceptable reason to call the cops.

He wasn't "disrespected" by anybody....

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McKean did not accuse the officer of disrespecting him.

As he thought the reason for the stop was basically "walking while black," he definitely felt disrespected, and understandably so.

....and there is no indication whatsoever that there was a racial motive anywhere in the situation that wasn't manufactured by a whole slew of people motivated by some bull**** "social justice" agenda.

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....except that black citizens get stopped over trivial ways repeatedly, and often with unjust results.

One well-known example is NYC's "stop and frisk" policy. One aspect of the policy made a great deal of sense: They were putting police officers into high-crime areas. The rest, did not. They made over 5 million S&F's over 12 years, and in several years police conducted over 500,000 stops. Few stops were linked to any nearby criminal activity. Over 90% of those frisked were black and Latino. The police only found weapons in 0.2% of frisks. It produced few arrests. There's no good evidence it reduced crime. Alienated much of the community. The policy was so egregious that eventually it was ruled unconstitutional last year. (FYI, crime in NYC has dropped 4.35% in 2014, despite the termination of S&F last August.)

And of course, there's other issues like blacks are more likely to be stopped, twice as likely to be searched when they are stopped than whites, more likely that whites to be killed while in police custody, less likely to have contraband on them when they are searched. Even given disparities in crime rates in minority populations, and given how overt expressions of racism have declined in recent decades, concerns about structural and unconscious bias are often warranted.

Thus, if a black person gets stopped for what appears to be a trivial or frivolous reason, they're probably justified in jumping to the conclusion that there is some sort of racist impulse behind it -- even if the cop(s) involved are not personally racist.

Respect and tolerance are a two way street and they are also a process. People jumping to conclusions and making mountains out of molehills only serves to stall that process.

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Yes, respect is mutual. And we saw these two individuals expressing respect to one another.

However and again, I have no problems whatsoever with people filming encounters with police, and releasing it for public viewing. Neither should you. As Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard said: "We have nothing to hide when we do our job."

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Jango said:

I walk every day where I live, even if it is -40 outside. I've done cold weather training, so I don't mind it. Last winter I was stopped 6 times when I was walking with Bosco (R.I.P. Bubba) by the local and state police.

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The colder it is the higher chance you have of cops ****in with you for no reason. Because less people are out and they gotta rack up them ticket dollars for their boss.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Someone made a 911 call the police have to respond. From what's in the video it seems the cop did his job properly. If I'm going to complain about anyone it's the caller.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Jango said:

Do you think they edited the video or something?

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No, I think he's saying the cop is full of **** and nobody called the police because a guy was walking by.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Visbek said:

Thanks for jumping to a whole series of conclusions.

We don't know if the 911 call was accurate. Granted, after multiple robberies a store owner is entitled to be suspicious, but that doesn't prove that his description is accurate. (In fact, it might suggest the opposite.)

We don't know if Brandon McKean was the person the shop owner reported. It seems unlikely, as he was at a friend's house when the 911 call was made, and had only been walking outside for a few minutes.

Even if we accept those two aspects at face value, then no, looking in a shop window is NOT equivalent to walking around with an AK-47 on a strap. That's just insane.



I see. It's perfectly acceptable for police to randomly stop people, provide a flimsy excuse for the stop, and no one should complain.

I'm curious, how often do you get stopped? How many times would it take for you to get stopped, before you started complaining about it, and thinking that something was up?



McKean didn't claim they were. He was expressing outrage over what he thought was an unacceptable reason to call the cops.



McKean did not accuse the officer of disrespecting him.

As he thought the reason for the stop was basically "walking while black," he definitely felt disrespected, and understandably so.



....except that black citizens get stopped over trivial ways repeatedly, and often with unjust results.

One well-known example is NYC's "stop and frisk" policy. One aspect of the policy made a great deal of sense: They were putting police officers into high-crime areas. The rest, did not. They made over 5 million S&F's over 12 years, and in several years police conducted over 500,000 stops. Few stops were linked to any nearby criminal activity. Over 90% of those frisked were black and Latino. The police only found weapons in 0.2% of frisks. It produced few arrests. There's no good evidence it reduced crime. Alienated much of the community. The policy was so egregious that eventually it was ruled unconstitutional last year. (FYI, crime in NYC has dropped 4.35% in 2014, despite the termination of S&F last August.)

And of course, there's other issues like blacks are more likely to be stopped, twice as likely to be searched when they are stopped than whites, more likely that whites to be killed while in police custody, less likely to have contraband on them when they are searched. Even given disparities in crime rates in minority populations, and given how overt expressions of racism have declined in recent decades, concerns about structural and unconscious bias are often warranted.

Thus, if a black person gets stopped for what appears to be a trivial or frivolous reason, they're probably justified in jumping to the conclusion that there is some sort of racist impulse behind it -- even if the cop(s) involved are not personally racist.



Yes, respect is mutual. And we saw these two individuals expressing respect to one another.

However and again, I have no problems whatsoever with people filming encounters with police, and releasing it for public viewing. Neither should you. As Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard said: "We have nothing to hide when we do our job."

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Its been my experience in hoods that the black people i knew acted "extra" within the law. Like "No way dude I wont touch that glass weed pipe of yours, cops would call me a crack addict"

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Its pretty pathetic to see some people defend these pathetic actions of the police.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

Deuce said:

No, I think he's saying the cop is full of **** and nobody called the police because a guy was walking by.

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That depends on how many phoning chairs are within view. You should check out the randomness of 911 calls -- people call for all sorts of reasons, man, from the normal and mundane to the truly bizarre and weird. People's asses even call 911 nowadays

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

VanceMack said:

Is there more to this? I mean...from what i gather, there was a call from dispatch to check out a complaint, the officer checked it out...and....the end? Cop did his job, politely, respectfully...and life goes on.

If anything maybe there should be upset at whoever called the cops.

Now...if there was in fact no call...then that is a completely different circumstance.

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I agree. The cop was put in a bad spot because he has to respond to this call. Its the paranoid idiot who called it in that should get the blame. From what I see, the cop treated the guy fair.

Re: Police Detain Michigan Man on Thanksgiving for ‘Walking with Hands in Pockets’ Po

rcart76 said:

I agree. The cop was put in a bad spot because he has to respond to this call. Its the paranoid idiot who called it in that should get the blame. From what I see, the cop treated the guy fair.

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This is going to be a 'thing' for a while now. Any time someone gets stopped by a cop they are going to put on the fauxrage. Someone posted a video yesterday of an officer responding to a shoplifting call by store security and the guy acted like a complete and total asshole to the cop. Of course...the guy had a criminal history with the cop and pending charges...so it didnt matter that the cop was responding politely..."He's tryin to Mike Brown me! He's tryin to Mike Brown me! Hands up!!! Ive got my hands up!!!"

Yeah...if I was a cop it would be tough to get excited about responding to a call with a black suspect any time in the near future.